Eastern Electric CD Player with Signature 30.2?

winebroker2007 · « **on:** 22 Sep 2007, 10:21 pm »

I'm very excited about the prospect of acquiring a Signature 30.2 for a home audio setup. I imagine I will try to pair it with a modest Devore setup (maybe a used pair of Gibbon Super 8's?). I am looking for a CD transport that will not degrade the quality of this stellar group, yet not cost me a fortune (the new 30.2 will be a stretch enough!).

How would the Eastern Electric Minimax CD stack up? Is this sufficient to realize the potential of the other components, or am I dreaming here? I'd like to stay under $1K for a CD player, unless that would be a travesty and insult to both the RWA amplifier and the speakers. I welcome your feedback!

Thanks,
--George

Bucky · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Sep 2007, 11:35 pm »

Although I haven't heard it (or a tubed source) with the Sig 30, the Minimax CD player is a very good player and will definetly be up to par in your system. I owned one prior to switching to a battery powered RWA modified squeezebox (got tired of CDs and wanted to rip everything to FLAC), which is now going through an external DAC matched up with a couple of amps (Sig 30 included). Side by side it was very noticeably better sounding than the analog out of the RWA modified squeezebox into one of my SET amps (didn't have the Sig 30 at the time I sold the Minimax). The CD player responds very well to tube rolling and Bill at Morningstar Audio (US distributor of Minimax gear) is probably the best Hi-Fi guy that I have ever met. If you wanna go the tube route it can't be beat in its price range.

OrJazzM · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Sep 2007, 05:54 am »

I've tried the Sony Playstation 1 (Model No. SCPH-1001), sounds great for the price and worth checking out. Here's the 6moons review link.

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/leben2/system.html

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2007, 12:25 pm »

Hi George,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

Quote

I'm very excited about the prospect of acquiring a Signature 30.2 for a home audio setup. I imagine I will try to pair it with a modest Devore setup (maybe a used pair of Gibbon Super 8's?).

The Signature 30.2 will be an excellent match with the DeVore Super 8s. I am running the DeVore Nines with the 30.2 and this combo sounds superb!

Quote

How would the Eastern Electric Minimax CD stack up? Is this sufficient to realize the potential of the other components, or am I dreaming here? I'd like to stay under $1K for a CD player, unless that would be a travesty and insult to both the RWA amplifier and the speakers.

A good tubed CD player like the EE Minimax should work very well with the Signature 30.2.

Quote from: OrJazzM

I've tried the Sony Playstation 1 (Model No. SCPH-1001), sounds great for the price and worth checking out. Here's the 6moons review link.

This is a John DeVore favorite for CD playback (he is mainly a vinyl guy) and it does sound very warm and musical and also works very well with the Signature 30 / 30.2.
This is a great piece if you are on a budget or saving up for something else (e.g. an Isabella

) and need something to hold you over and still sounds good. Just paint it black and sit it on top of the Signature 30.2. They have nearly the same footprint:

If you have any other questions, please let me know.

Best regards,

Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Sep 2007, 11:06 pm »

Wow! Two days on this forum, and I get a welcome from the Red Wine Audio Guru himself!!!!

Zero · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Sep 2007, 11:38 pm »

Vinnie,

I just gotta ask - whats with the disc in the PS 1? Is this your subtle way of 'coming out'?

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 12:09 am »

Quote from: Zero on 23 Sep 2007, 11:38 pm

Vinnie,

I just gotta ask - whats with the disc in the PS 1? Is this your subtle way of 'coming out'?

Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson (Score) [SOUNDTRACK]

From Amazon.com:

Quote

The legendary Jack Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight champion, is the subject of Ken Burns's 2005 PBS documentary, and Wynton Marsalis (a major figure in the filmmaker's 2000 miniseries, Ken Burns's Jazz) turns in a brilliant original score that captures the courage, chaos, and controversy of Johnson's racially charged feats and exploits. Compositions by Jelly Roll Morton and W.C. Handy augment the leader's quasi-Ellingtonian ragtime, blues, dirges, ballads, and stride selections. Also included are four previously released tracks, two from Mr. Jelly Lord and two from Reeltime, the Marsalis score made for (but ultimately not used in) the movie Rosewood. Of course, Marsalis is on his best trumpet behavior, and he shows a real and unacknowledged talent for writing in this idiom. --Eugene Holley, Jr.

It is a really good album... Highly recommended!

Best regards,

Vinnie

Zero · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 01:23 am »

Marsalis eh? 'Nuff said.

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 08:23 am »

Vinnie--

How do you hook up headphones to the Signature 30/30.2? From the pictures, I don't see any headphone jack, but several reviews talk about using headphones with the Signature 30...

Thanks,
--George

stevenkelby · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 11:54 am »

Quote from: winebroker2007 on 24 Sep 2007, 08:23 am

Vinnie--

How do you hook up headphones to the Signature 30/30.2? From the pictures, I don't see any headphone jack, but several reviews talk about using headphones with the Signature 30...

Thanks,
--George

Hi George,

I'm not Vinnie, but I asked him a similar question previously and can say that the Sig. 30/30.2 is not to be used for driving normal headphones. Abnormal headphones are ok. I mean, very power hungry headphones like the AKG K1000, some Stax and my Taket H2s

All of which connect with speaker cables.

Steve.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: winebroker2007 on 23 Sep 2007, 11:06 pm

Wow! Two days on this forum, and I get a welcome from the Red Wine Audio Guru himself!!!!

Hi George,

I enjoy seeing new people signing up and posting here (as well as some of the regulars here), so thanks for posting

Regarding using headphones with the Signature 30 or 30.2, these products do NOT have a built-in headphone amp stage. Also, the negative speaker outputs (L- and R-) are NOT tied together to GND and must never be tied together.

The typical 1/4" or 1/8" headphone plug has three wires.... L+, R+, and GND. The L- and R- wires from the L and R headphone drivers are tied together to GND.

Even if you were to used balanced headphones, they all wouldn't work well with the Signature 30 or 30.2. As stevenkelby mentioned above, the AKG K1000s work VERY well, but you need to connect the individual L+, L-, R+, and R- connections to the speaker posts. A few of the STAX headphone models also work very well.

In general, headphones with individual L+, L-, R+, and R- connections and low efficiency tend to work well.

I am working on a headphone amp next and am also considering building in an optional headphone stage into the upcoming Isabella. Stay tuned...

Best regards,

Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Sep 2007, 06:55 am »

Vinnie--

Thanks for the explanation about the use of headphones with the Signature 30.2

I went ahead and ordered the Eastern Electric Minimax CD Player, which according to sixmoons.com, should mate perfectly with my current Audio-Technica WTH-1000 cans. It will also serve up tunes for my Signature 30.2 when I scrape up the dough to augment Isabella's college fund...

--George

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 12:05 am »

Quote from: winebroker2007 on 25 Sep 2007, 06:55 am

Vinnie--

Thanks for the explanation about the use of headphones with the Signature 30.2

I went ahead and ordered the Eastern Electric Minimax CD Player, which according to sixmoons.com, should mate perfectly with my current Audio-Technica WTH-1000 cans. It will also serve up tunes for my Signature 30.2 when I scrape up the dough to augment Isabella's college fund...

--George

Hi George,

Sounds good! I'm sure you'll enjoy the EE Minimax CD player. If you later on try the Isabella, you can always use the Minimax as your source (via the digital output) to feed the Isabella's internal dac aa

Keep up posted!

Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 05:39 am »

Vinnie--

Please forgive my ignorance about the "chain of sound" that takes the music on a CD all the way to a pair of speakers with faithful sound reproduction.

I assume I can run the outputs on the Minimax CDP directly into the Signature 30.2, and on to a pair of Devore Gibbon Super-Eight speakers. What advantages would I realize by adding an Isabella between the Minimax CDP and the RWA Signature 30.2?

Thanks for your time and expertise,
--George

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 12:29 pm »

Quote from: winebroker2007 on 26 Sep 2007, 05:39 am

Vinnie--

Please forgive my ignorance about the "chain of sound" that takes the music on a CD all the way to a pair of speakers with faithful sound reproduction.

I assume I can run the outputs on the Minimax CDP directly into the Signature 30.2, and on to a pair of Devore Gibbon Super-Eight speakers. What advantages would I realize by adding an Isabella between the Minimax CDP and the RWA Signature 30.2?

Thanks for your time and expertise,
--George

Hi George,

Yes, you can connect the Minimax CDP directly to the Signature 30.2 (the version with built-in remote volume control), and then to your speakers. The DeVore Gibbon Super-Eights are a very nice choice!

Inside of the Minimax CDP is a digital-to-analog (D/A) converter (a.k.a. DAC) and an analog output stage (used to feed your amp). Almost all CDPs also have a digital output (coax or optical) and this allows you to send the digital signal to an external DAC, so you no longer use the DAC and analog output stage of your CDP.

The Isabella is a SLA battery powered tubed preamp with built-in DAC. So you can take the digital output of your CDP and feed this into the Isabella. The Isabella's internal non-oversampling dac will convert the signal to analog, and then from there it will pass through a tubed preamp stage. You'll get a different sound with the Isabella's dac and tubed preamp stage vs. the sending the CDP directly into the Signature 30.2.

Because the Isabella is a preamp (or "linestage"), it also has analog inputs and an input select switch to allow you to switch between different inputs (digital or analog) if you are going to be using multiple sources.

I hope this helps,

Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Sep 2007, 11:55 pm »

Vinnie--

Thanks for the clarification. I'm a bit of a newbie to all of this, although the use of a RWA Signature 30.2 seems a no-brainer to alleviate all of the "upstream" complications of power conditioning, RFI, EMI, etc.

I never really thought about the entire flow from a CD to the speakers.

If I follow the process here, does this seem about right:

The CD is a digital source, and the speakers require an analog signal.

The CD Player can contain a DAC, which converts the signal to analog before passing it on to the amplifier.

The CD Player can also pass a digital signal out to a stand-alone DAC, which converts the signal to analog before passing it on to the amplifier.

The digital signal from the CD Player can also be passed directly into a pre-amplifier which contains its own DAC to perform the conversion to analog (the Isabella!) before passing the signal on to the amplifier (the Signature 30.2!)

If the above is correct, and your (RWA's) goal is to shape the CD musical output into your own idea of what the ultimate sound reproduced by the speakers should sound like, then developing the Isabella allows you to control more of the sound path, by using the appropriate DAC and other tube-based electronics within the Isabella, to pass a "more natural" sound (in terms of your idea of what that sound should be) to the Signature 30.2 to relay on to the speakers.

Am I starting to "get it", or am I way off the mark?

--George

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Sep 2007, 12:34 pm »

Hi George,

Quote

The CD is a digital source, and the speakers require an analog signal.

Correct, as do amplifiers.

Quote

The CD Player can contain a DAC, which converts the signal to analog before passing it on to the amplifier.

Correct... just about all CDPs contain a DAC and therefore output an analog signal. I believe that there might be a few that are just dedicated "CD transports" and only output a digital signal, and therefore require the use of an external DAC.

Quote

The CD Player can also pass a digital signal out to a stand-alone DAC, which converts the signal to analog before passing it on to the amplifier.

Correct, and this digital signal is usually a form of SPDIF (in either the coax or optical form).

Quote

The digital signal from the CD Player can also be passed directly into a pre-amplifier which contains its own DAC to perform the conversion to analog (the Isabella!) before passing the signal on to the amplifier (the Signature 30.2!)

This is correct only if the preamp contains a built-in DAC.

Quote

If the above is correct, and your (RWA's) goal is to shape the CD musical output into your own idea of what the ultimate sound reproduced by the speakers should sound like, then developing the Isabella allows you to control more of the sound path, by using the appropriate DAC and other tube-based electronics within the Isabella, to pass a "more natural" sound (in terms of your idea of what that sound should be) to the Signature 30.2 to relay on to the speakers.

YES! This is correct. The Isabella also offers:

-- A USB digital input to her internal dac section as well as SPDIF inputs. The USB digital input allows a direct connection with a PC or MAC with no SPDIF conversion required.

-- Analog inputs (for sources that output analog signals such as phono stages, FM tuners, iMods, etc.).

-- Just like the Signature 30.2, the Isabella also runs entirely on pure SLA battery power (for both the internal dac and tube preamp stage) and this has a large effect on the sound, especially when you team up with the SLA powered Signature 30.2!

Quote

Am I starting to "get it", or am I way off the mark?

You GOT it!

Best regards,

Vinnie

reddmadder · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Sep 2007, 01:08 pm »

Vinnie,
I have your Modded Olive w/external battery,so if I had the Isabella,would the Olive output stage need to be bypassed or disabled?
J

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Sep 2007, 01:22 pm »

Quote from: reddmadder on 27 Sep 2007, 01:08 pm

Vinnie,
I have your Modded Olive w/external battery,so if I had the Isabella,would the Olive output stage need to be bypassed or disabled?
J

Hey reddmadder,

With the modded Olive, I recommend using the modded digital output (via the 75-ohm BNC) to feed the Isabellas digital input (also a 75-ohm BNC) into the Isabella's dac stage.

When the Isabella is ready, I'll have to bring it over with a Siganture 30.2 so we can connect them to your modded Olive. You'll have a totally off-the-grid system to listen to then!

I owe you a visit... sorry it has taken this long

-Vinnie

winebroker2007 · « **Reply #19 on:** 28 Sep 2007, 02:24 am »

Vinnie--

Thanks for your patience and explanations to reduce my ignorance, and make me a more informed consumer!

With all of the potential sound "degraders" you are systematically removing (or improving) in the process, how important to the system do interconnects and speaker cables become? With all of your expertise and talent focused on refining the sound, it seems these connections become even more important, since these become the only part of the entire system (if one purchases a modded Olive, an Isabella, and a Signature 30.2) that are outside of RWA's control...

Also, I went to the Olive site, and it seems their product line has dropped the "Musica" and "Symphony" labels. Are you modding the older products, or the newer Opus No.3? Is there any inherent advantage, from your perspective, to the "S" model ("perpendicular recording technology")?

Thanks,
--George