Some pics of and comments about my new system

slow_down · « **on:** 12 Sep 2007, 07:33 pm »

My Odyssey modified-budget system arrived today! It consists of a new Khartago, used Tempest, used Nightingales and interconnects and speaker cable, all ordered direct from Klaus. My source is a stock SB3 with Bolder modded Elpac power supply and a computer full of albums ripped to FLAC.

Klaus warned me about this beforehand, but my Tempest came in different box than what is shown on their website. There is no rackstyle faceplate – it is just a simple box. Luckily its width matches exactly with the faceplate of the Khartago so appearance is more or less fine. I would prefer that it were black to match the Khartago instead of the matte grey that it is, but no big deal. It weighs A TON, and I think is easily as heavy as the Khartago. Build quality seems excellent and over-the-top sturdy. Very industrial-grade in appearance. To be honest, everything in the system just oozes quality.

The Nightingales are pretty much what I expected, perhaps even a tad lighter in weight than I expected, but are very handsome and distinctive in appearance.

So overall, in the looks and feel department, this system is pretty cool.

Initial listening impressions are where it starts getting a little more complicated. First off, I think I’ve been listening to “home theater” style audio for so long (pro-logic II musc processing, a big subwoofer, using a center speaker along with the left and right) that I perhaps have forgotten what real stereo is supposed to sound like. So I’m aware of that, but still, upon first listen, everything seemed, well, kinda flat. I felt like I wanted to play around with the bass and treble controls, which of course the system doesn’t have. It just didn’t feel as “big” and “punchy” as my really cheap home theater setup. I know that a big part of this is simply that I need to reacquaint my ears with how music is supposed to sound, but still, it made for an anti-climactic first listen. Obviously I need to give it way more time, and my Khartago (the only new piece in the system) needs to break in, so will keep an open mind.

However, I do have one pretty big concern/potential problem. When the Tempest is on I hear a low-volume but quite noticeable “buzz” coming from my speakers. When music is playing you don’t really notice it, but if I pause the SB3 or turn it off, then it becomes an annoyance. Basically, you can hear that the system is on even when no music is playing. This shouldn’t be happening, right? Any thoughts on what I can do here? Klaus just left on a trip and I’m not sure when he’ll be back. Is there any troubleshooting I can do in the meantime? Thanks.

-PROBLEM FIXED, THANKS BOB FOR THE CHEATER PLUG SUGGESTION!-

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 07:42 pm »

Ground loop problem?
Temporally install a 'cheater' plug on your 110v plugs...One by one.
I would venture that one of these is the culprit. Happened to me once. Not too uncommon.

Bob - Hopefully helpful

BobC · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 07:47 pm »

Can't help you with the humm.

But regarding the sound I like to do the following....
1. Try to go and listen to actual live music once in a while for calibration.
2. Then try to listen to some accoustic music. (I like Diana Krall - Live in Paris) I think you'll see that the system is more accurate than you're use to.
3. If you still feel like you're missing something, then think about adding a 2nd set of outs to your pre and running a sub.

BobC · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 07:48 pm »

almost forgot....

4. Play around with your room layout and speaker placement.

slow_down · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 08:08 pm »

Thanks for the replies.

I don't know what a cheater plug is - can someone explain further?

And I will definitely play around with speaker placement a lot more. I've already noticed that I hear major differences based on where I sit - much more so than with other equipment I've had in the past.

As far as a sub, I would really like to make it work without one, as I live in an apartment. I knew ahead of time that the Nightingales aren't bass monsters, and am fine with that. Just weird how, well, neutral everything sounds. But hell, I thought wine tasted awful the first time I drank it, so assuming everything is working as it should, suspect it will grow on me. I'm just worried that there might be a problem with my Tempest because of that buzz, and that makes it harder to explore the way the system sounds with an open mind, ya know?

IronLion · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 08:10 pm »

A cheater plug is a small plastic plug that you can get at a hardware store that makes your three-pronged electronic cable into a two-pronged one by removing the ground. I would definitely play around with both speaker placement (for bass reinforcement and imaging) and listening position placement, as the two will have a large impact on what you actually hear from your speakers, especially with regards to bass.

BobC · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 08:12 pm »

I seem to remember some hummm threads around here. Suggest you do a search on the topic and if you can't figure it out give Klaus a call.

mcullinan · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 08:21 pm »

Nice looking system.. How does it sound?
Mike

slow_down · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 08:41 pm »

Quote from: Bob in St. Louis on 12 Sep 2007, 07:42 pm

Ground loop problem?
Temporally install a 'cheater' plug on your 110v plugs...One by one.
I would venture that one of these is the culprit. Happened to me once. Not too uncommon.

Bob - Hopefully helpful

The cheater plug did it!!! No more buzz. Thanks so much Bob.

Now stupid question here - is it normal for you to be able to hear a slight hiss from a speaker when the stereo's on but no music is playing? Because now I no longer have a buzz, but still have a slight hiss -- very very slight, and only when my ear is around 10" or closer to the speaker, directly in front of the woofer. Any farther and I can't really hear anything. I presume that's within normal specs, right? If not, is there anything I can do about it?

More generally, after about and hour of listening, it's already growing on me. What initially felt flat now is starting to feel more genuine and accurate, or maybe I'm convincing myself to like it, who knows. Glad to be rid of the buzzing problem though!!

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:00 pm »

Cool, glad I could help.

Sorry about the lack of explanation on the cheater plug.

Not being familiar with the products you have (didn't notice I was posting in the Odyssey forum

) I would say a VERY, VERY slight hiss would be OK. 10 inches from a woofer, in my opinion is allright. Now, somebody else might have a differing opinion regarding your products, but I'd think you'll be fine. Maybe play with the IC's/cables, check for clean and tight connections if it bothers you much.

Good to hear the system is growing on you. That would suck bad to spend that kind of cash and not like it.

Bob

slow_down · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:20 pm »

Bob, I'll check the connections again to make sure. This is my first time using banana plugs or whatever it is Klaus put on the ends of the speaker cables - I just pushed them into the speaker terminals and it seemed like it provided for a nice tight fit. Also, the Nightingales have two sets of terminals - does it matter which I use? I tried both and could tell no difference.

One more pic - closeup of the front panels. Pretty handsome eh?

avalon65 · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:25 pm »

I really like your system and if I were to pare mine down, I think I'd go with something very similar to yours. I used to own the Nightingales(now I have the Lorelies, with Strat Monos and Tempest) and really loved them. I never thought they sounded as you describe them and to the contrary they sounded the opposite. I was impressed with the bass output as well as how crisp and clean the music sounded. A couple of thoughts popped into my head after reading your comments and seeing your pix.

1. I've never heard a Squeeze Box before and I know there is a following for them that are quite pleased with them, especially after they are modded, but I'm wondering if that could be the source of your uninspired sound. I would try A/B'ing your ripped tunes with a CD or better yet the vinyl you ripped them from. See if things don't liven-up.

2. Your Khartago is brand new and will require some break in time before it will bloom. This could help explain why your starting to like the sound a bit more as time passes. Search this forum on break in period for Klaus' amps there is ample discussion on the subject.

Also, how long was your Khartago plugged in when you formed your initial impression? Do you keep it powered up 24/7? A truly warmed up and broken in system opens up nicely.

Keep us posted.

P.S. Your apartment looks familiar. In what city do you live?

bunky · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:29 pm »

Quote from: slow_down on 12 Sep 2007, 09:20 pm

Bob, I'll check the connections again to make sure. This is my first time using banana plugs or whatever it is Klaus put on the ends of the speaker cables - I just pushed them into the speaker terminals and it seemed like it provided for a nice tight fit. Also, the Nightingales have two sets of terminals - does it matter which I use? I tried both and could tell no difference.

One more pic - closeup of the front panels. Pretty handsome eh?

It is really a good idea to keep the top of your Khartago open as it has internal heatsinks with vent holes on the top of the case , a preamplifier on top of it is making it run much hotter than it needs to be run

BikeWNC · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:30 pm »

From the picture in the OP I can see your room needs some treatments. There is a lot of glass and a reflective floor in the picture. Try a throw rug in front of the speakers. Put some curtains on the windows. Check the sound again after that is done. Having all those hard surfaces will tend to make the system bright and flat. It may also be difficult to discern vocals. Play around with different treatments on the walls and corners. There is plenty of info in the acoustics circle to help you.

Andy

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:40 pm »

Quote from: slow_down on 12 Sep 2007, 09:20 pm

Also, the Nightingales have two sets of terminals - does it matter which I use? I tried both and could tell no difference.

Oh, I would certainly think so, but like I said earlier, I'm not familiar with this product. It may be some kind of internal/bi-amping option. Not sure.

Also, gather up some throw rugs from around the house and line them up between the sweet spot and each speaker (first reflection point). A bit like a big "V" on the floor. Might help some.
Also again, close your drapes, that should help reflection from all that glass. (realising of course the drapes may be open for optimal photo taking.

)

Andy, his profile says he lives in Glen Burnie Md

Bob

Edit: several for clarity.

slow_down · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 09:59 pm »

Thanks for all the feedback guys, definitely have some things to try to improve the sound. In response to some of your suggestions and questions:

-I've since moved the Tempest off the Khartago which was starting to get kinda hot.

-Break-in should help the Khartago, which I literally unpacked about an hour and a half before I posted! I would have waited until tonight, but the buzzing sound scared me and I wanted to ask for help sooner.

-Unfortunately the SB3 is my best source right now. The only other possibility is my DVD player (Oppo 981 - doubt its DAC or power supply is any better than my SB3 and its modded PS). At some point in time I will invest in a transport/DAC or mid-budget player just to have that option, but for now it's the SB3.

-Room treatments will be tough for aesthetic and practical reasons. I've got a big old chair that I move around a fair bit depending on whether I have company or am watching a movie, so a big thick rug will make that harder to deal with. And the idea of putting up curtains in front of my treetop views doesn't exactly put a smile on my face. Still, I would suspect my room's acoustical properties are probably the biggest factor in why the speakers sounded a little flat and weak to me. So I will have to take some steps to address the problem. Maybe treatments that I can put in and take out easily depending on if I have people over?

And Avalon, I live in Chicago!

EProvenzano · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 10:01 pm »

I believe the suggestions offered to experiment with room placement are good ones.

From your pictures it appears your speakers are 4-5' from the rear wall.
I my experience, you'll notice significant bass reinforcement by moving the speakers back a couple feet. The ideal position is dependant on your room dimensions and listenting position. You'll also need to strike a balance between bass reinforcement and imaging as these trade-offs will likely occur as you move the speakers.

Happy listening

pm314 · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 10:41 pm »

Quote from: slow_down on 12 Sep 2007, 09:59 pm

Thanks for all the feedback guys, definitely have some things to try to improve the sound. In response to some of your suggestions and questions:

-I've since moved the Tempest off the Khartago which was starting to get kinda hot.

-Break-in should help the Khartago, which I literally unpacked about an hour and a half before I posted! I would have waited until tonight, but the buzzing sound scared me and I wanted to ask for help sooner.

-Unfortunately the SB3 is my best source right now. The only other possibility is my DVD player (Oppo 981 - doubt its DAC or power supply is any better than my SB3 and its modded PS). At some point in time I will invest in a transport/DAC or mid-budget player just to have that option, but for now it's the SB3.

-Room treatments will be tough for aesthetic and practical reasons. I've got a big old chair that I move around a fair bit depending on whether I have company or am watching a movie, so a big thick rug will make that harder to deal with. And the idea of putting up curtains in front of my treetop views doesn't exactly put a smile on my face. Still, I would suspect my room's acoustical properties are probably the biggest factor in why the speakers sounded a little flat and weak to me. So I will have to take some steps to address the problem. Maybe treatments that I can put in and take out easily depending on if I have people over?

And Avalon, I live in Chicago!

I remember having the same feeling when I first hooked up my Khartago. I would say within 2 days the feeling was completely gone as the system opened up. I dont think you will be dissapointed in your system. I now have a SB3 (with unmodded Elpac), Etesian pre, upgraded mono Khartagos and Vandersteen 1Cs (which I've *heard* are comparable to Nightingales).

Sonny · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 11:16 pm »

Quote from: slow_down on 12 Sep 2007, 09:59 pm

-Unfortunately the SB3 is my best source right now. The only other possibility is my DVD player (Oppo 981 - doubt its DAC or power supply is any better than my SB3 and its modded PS). At some point in time I will invest in a transport/DAC or mid-budget player just to have that option, but for now it's the SB3.

You know, on the contrary, the Oppo 981 is actually an amazing source. You should read all the reviews on it. they say the stock is great for the price but a few hundred in mods and you've got yourself a $2k plus performing source!

mjohnson · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Sep 2007, 11:26 pm »

Give the Khartago time to break in. When I first turned on my upgraded Khartago/Etesian system, I thought I had made a huge mistake. After break-in, I know I did not. It's really sweet. Be patient. I also use a modded SB3 which I love even though I'm having trouble ripping to FLAC and EAC since I got a new Vista system. Wish I could find some nice 'gales.