Line Array Speaker Availability

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FredT300B

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Line Array Speaker Availability
« on: 9 Sep 2007, 03:55 pm »
Here's a summary of the line array speakers I'm aware of that are available from US manufacurers and distributors. I'm not going to embellish this post with any subjective remarks about price or sound quality, but there is a great range of both in the list below. I'm sure I'll miss some, especially any that are sold by distrubutors outside of North America, so please everybody fill in the blanks with those I've missed.

McIntosh Labs offers several models that are pictured on their web site http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/

IDS introduced a pair of full range driver arrays at the 2006 RMAF. Here's their web site http://www.ids25.com/

Epiphany offers several models  http://www.epiphanyaudio.com/

Nearfield Acoustics offers the Pipedreams arrays  http://www.nearfieldacoustics.com/

AV123 has taken advance orders and is on the verge of introducing two line array models designed by Danny Ritchie  http://www.av123.com/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=61

GR Research offers two models, the LS-6 and the LS-9. They aren't listed on the GR Research web page just yet, but discussion about them can be found on the GR Research Circle
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=43853.0

Selah Audio offers two models, the Alexandrite and the XT-8, as completed speakers, plus one that's available as a kit, the RS-8. Rick Craig also offers custom designed speakers, some examples of which can be seen on the Selah Audio web page  http://www.selahaudio.com

Zalytron offers several kits  http://www.zalytron.com/ 

Bill Fitzmaurice offers the plans for a line array that can be built very inexpensively
http://billfitzmaurice.com/TLAH.html

DIY builders often build one-off line arrays using drivers that become available for attractive prices as "buyouts" from Parts Express and Madisound. The advantage of these is that they can be built cheaply and, if properly designed, can sound very good. The disadvantage is the can't be duplicated after the buyout drivers are sold out. Here's one example  http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/array/array.htm

Readers of this post, please respond with information on any line arrays I've missed.

FredT300B

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #1 on: 10 Sep 2007, 01:14 pm »
I forgot one. It's the Dali Megaline.
http://www.dali.dk/us/page245.aspx?sub=214&grp=107

ekovalsky

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #2 on: 13 Sep 2007, 05:51 am »
Here's another, interesting speaker as it is the only triple line array I have seen without separate main/sub towers.  Gorgeous design too, wonder if it sounds as good as it looks ?

Swans 2.2R

JohninCR

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #3 on: 13 Sep 2007, 07:31 am »
All of the commercial LA's listed are boxes.  That's a real shame.  As mankind lives closer and closer together, open alignments will become the norm instead of the exception.  Open line arrays are special.  I seem to remember a commercial ribbon line with angled wings.  Unfortunately for looks and sonics, the wings were both equal and non-tapered.

Charivari

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #4 on: 13 Sep 2007, 07:34 am »
Here's another, interesting speaker as it is the only triple line array I have seen without separate main/sub towers.
Fwiw, the McIntosh XR-290 was a triple line array as well sans separate subs.

- JP

Val

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #5 on: 20 Sep 2007, 03:16 am »
Anthony Gallo has developed an interesting array, the Reference 5LS, by stacking eight Nucleus woofers and seven semi-omni (300̊ degrees) CDT tweeter modules one on top of the other, together with twelve 4-inch aluminum drivers in the back of the stainless-steel enclosure to serve as subwoofers.

I guess the vertical stacking of woofers and tweeters has its own set of problems. Any comments from the array gurus?
« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2007, 02:35 pm by Val »

arthurs

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #6 on: 20 Sep 2007, 03:20 am »
Here's another, interesting speaker as it is the only triple line array I have seen without separate main/sub towers.  Gorgeous design too, wonder if it sounds as good as it looks ?

Swans 2.2R

I heard these at CES 2 or 3 years ago, but they had them set up in the main hall and there was a lot of action and noise around.  My memory tells me they weren't impressive mainly because of the setting....they were beautiful though....

FredT300B

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #7 on: 20 Sep 2007, 08:32 pm »
Here's another line array I learned about just today when I opened my October Absolute Sound.
http://www.scaena.com/

Danny Richie

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #8 on: 20 Sep 2007, 09:36 pm »
Quote
I guess the vertical stacking of woofer and tweeters has its own set of problems. Any comments from the array gurus?

Because of the distance between the tweeters they will cancel each other out all over the place and the response will have peaks and dips that could easily cover a 30db range or better. I can't say that it was a very well thought out design.

Rick Craig

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #9 on: 22 Sep 2007, 07:43 pm »
Quote
I guess the vertical stacking of woofer and tweeters has its own set of problems. Any comments from the array gurus?

Because of the distance between the tweeters they will cancel each other out all over the place and the response will have peaks and dips that could easily cover a 30db range or better. I can't say that it was a very well thought out design.

If you look at their site they mention that four people from StereoMojo commented favorably on the speakers.

arthurs

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #10 on: 22 Sep 2007, 07:58 pm »
Quote
I guess the vertical stacking of woofer and tweeters has its own set of problems. Any comments from the array gurus?

Because of the distance between the tweeters they will cancel each other out all over the place and the response will have peaks and dips that could easily cover a 30db range or better. I can't say that it was a very well thought out design.

If you look at their site they mention that four people from StereoMojo commented favorably on the speakers.

The original question and Danny's response was in regard to the Gallo stack, not the Scaena....

Rick Craig

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #11 on: 22 Sep 2007, 08:13 pm »
Quote
I guess the vertical stacking of woofer and tweeters has its own set of problems. Any comments from the array gurus?

Because of the distance between the tweeters they will cancel each other out all over the place and the response will have peaks and dips that could easily cover a 30db range or better. I can't say that it was a very well thought out design.

If you look at their site they mention that four people from StereoMojo commented favorably on the speakers.

The original question and Danny's response was in regard to the Gallo stack, not the Scaena....

My error. Danny is absolutely right - the Gallo is a poor design.

FredT300B

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #12 on: 30 Sep 2007, 10:08 am »
Here's a line array that's available in kit form from Creative Sound Solutions. It's the Beta LS, designed by Dr Jim Griffin. It houses 12 WR125ST woofers and 9 Aurum Cantus G3i-130 ribbons. The original model used a DEQX DSP-based crossover; the Beta LS uses a newly designed passive crossover. Sorry, no pictures are available on the CSS web site.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=BETALS

el`Ol

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #13 on: 23 Oct 2007, 03:34 pm »
Are Maggies, Apogees and Analysis line arrays?

I find these interesting in terms that midwoofers and woofers have a resonance frequency that lies above their operating range. The company says plenty of amplifier power is available anyway, so sensitivity is probably the weak point.
http://www.translife.de

Charivari

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #14 on: 23 Oct 2007, 07:23 pm »
Are Maggies, Apogees and Analysis line arrays?
Interesting question. As for the planar-magnetic portion of those speakers, they are line sources in that they compose a single diaphragm taller than it is wide. However, with the true ribbon element in the Magnepans and the majority of the quasi-ribbons in the Apogees, they appear as line sources (single element again), but they are actually supported at specific points along their length by little dots of glue to improve their robustness and help the resonances a bit. So, those drivers are more a hybrid between a line source and a line array than specifically one or the other.

- JP

FredT300B

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #15 on: 23 Oct 2007, 09:50 pm »
Are Maggies, Apogees and Analysis line arrays?

I find these interesting in terms that midwoofers and woofers have a resonance frequency that lies above their operating range. The company says plenty of amplifier power is available anyway, so sensitivity is probably the weak point.
http://www.translife.de

John Casler nailed the description of line array speakers in another thread with these words: "Obviously in understanding the "physics" and Psychoacoustic properties of "lines" it seems that the primary definers are the "wave launch", dispersive/radiation properties, and the the reinforcement of of SPLs by the number of drivers".

Maggies, Apogees, etc. are line source speakers whose continuous ribbon transducers offer the "wave launch" dispersive/radiation properties, but not the reinforcement of SPL's by the number of drivers. They are great speakers (my Selah arrays replaced Maggie 3.6's), but they aren't line arrays. Just my two cents.  :thumbdown:

S Clark

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #16 on: 23 Oct 2007, 10:01 pm »
Just thought I'd mention that I start about 15 kids on a line array project tonight using 4" pioneer full range drivers affectionately known as the NSB (no stinking badges??) from PartsExpress a year or two back.  We will hook various combos up tonight, getting some idea bout impedence and SPL.  Should be a good excersize.

el`Ol

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Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #17 on: 24 Oct 2007, 06:11 am »
Is this ESL a line array? As you can see at the end of the page the diaphragm is supported every 10.5 cm, and it is loud.
http://www.sonus.de/download/pdf/datenblatt/Novason_DE_2007-07-05.pdf

Charivari

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #18 on: 26 Oct 2007, 12:24 am »
John Casler nailed the description of line array speakers in another thread with these words: "Obviously in understanding the "physics" and Psychoacoustic properties of "lines" it seems that the primary definers are the "wave launch", dispersive/radiation properties, and the the reinforcement of of SPLs by the number of drivers".

Maggies, Apogees, etc. are line source speakers whose continuous ribbon transducers offer the "wave launch" dispersive/radiation properties, but not the reinforcement of SPL's by the number of drivers. They are great speakers (my Selah arrays replaced Maggie 3.6's), but they aren't line arrays. Just my two cents.  :thumbdown:
A definition based on dispersion and reinforcement behavior certainly makes a lot more sense than the older, more common definition I was working off of, ie "line array" being a vertical line of at least four drivers and "line source" being a vertically tall single driver. Nice to see something based on the more technical aspects even if I'm a bit lacking in knowledge there. Such would help support the identification of Sound Lab and similarly sectioned electrostats as being line sources. However, again with Maggies and Apogees, their "ribbon" elements while being composed of a single diaphragm are secured in such a way as to behave as a stack of multiple drivers rather than a single continuous element. Yet, they're often referred to as line sources while speakers such as the old Infinity IRS V, the newer Genesis 1.1, and similar are often refered to as line arrays despite their making use of a vertical stack of push-pull planar-magnetic drivers behaving in the same manner as the former two ribbon designs. Talk about grey area confusion, but then again, such will happen with the oft abused term "ribbon".

- JP

Rocket

Re: Line Array Speaker Availability
« Reply #19 on: 26 Oct 2007, 10:46 am »
Hi Guys,

Please be very careful if you decide to build a zalytron speaker kit.  I imported the phenomenal speaker kit from the states to Australia and it sounds like crap.  It uses 2 x phl mid/bass drivers and raven 2 ribbon tweeter and the cabinet is well built.

Unfortunately the xover design isn't mature and I swapped a number a emails with orca who designed the kit.  Modifications were made to the xover but unfortunately it still sounds bad i.e. no bass and too bright.

I sunk about $3000au into the project and I currently use them for home theatre.    I recently bought a nuforce s9 speakers at a very good price and it is so much better.  Just letting you know that zalytron may not be the best choice.

Regards

Rod