[doug s.]

the future's so bright, i gotta wear shades.   

doug s.

I am with Daygloworange (god, did I have to admit it in public?   )

You say that like it's a bad thing.   

BTW mcgsxr, you forgot your sunglasses here the other day. 

Cheers 

[macrojack]

Let's try it this way: High Fidelity, as distinct from mass merchandise, will cease to exist at the commercial level. Sure, there will be some activity among cultists but the majority of us are operating on a momentum that younger people don't have. Markets will follow the demands of the majority ever more as our society continues to homogenize. That leaves the lunatic fringe ever fringier until it crosses the horizon into the great beyond. For the record, I don't want this to happen. I'm just forecasting the weather.

[doug s.]

let's try it this way:  you're wrong.     it will exist at the lunatic fringe end of the commercial market.  "same as it ever was".   

Let's try it this way: High Fidelity, as distinct from mass merchandise, will cease to exist at the commercial level. Sure, there will be some activity among cultists but the majority of us are operating on a momentum that younger people don't have. Markets will follow the demands of the majority ever more as our society continues to homogenize. That leaves the lunatic fringe ever fringier until it crosses the horizon into the great beyond. For the record, I don't want this to happen. I'm just forecasting the weather.

[Daygloworange]

the future's so bright, i gotta wear shades.   

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was....

Cheers  

[DaveC113]

Scott F., I read your article, and some brick and mortor stores are shooting themselves in the foot by not offering affordable HiFi. I went to my only local HiFi shop to demo a small, affordable (<$1k) tube integrated and single driver speaker, neither of which were availble to demo or even to order. The salesman was so inept that he tried to sell me a Musical Fidelity SS integrated after I told him I was replacing a $1k pre/$1.5k hi-powered SS amp. I asked to speak to the manager, and was told that what I was looking for wasn't mainstream enough for them to carry, and "why sell $700 worth of equipment when they will buy $7k?"....  with shops like this there's no wonder HiFi isn't becoming mainstream. The big box stores don't carry affordable HiFi either, so whats left but the internet. There are so few HiFi shops that cater to people without great wealth that its no wonder more people aren't into HiFi.

The only redemption for the local HiFi shop is that the manager recommended Omega speakers, and I am now a VERY happy owner of Omega XRS speakers.  

[markC]

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was....

Stop making sense....

[Daygloworange]

Markets will follow the demands of the majority ever more as our society continues to homogenize.

macrojack,

C'mon man. Is there a black cloud over the town you live in that won't go away?  

I can give you tons of developments that emerged because of technological advancements, from fertile minds that created demand, and markets, not the other way around.

Dolby noise reduction, Dbx noise reduction, Dolby Digital Surround, DTS, the invention of the CD, DAT, Minidisc, MP 3, DVD-A, SACD, Q Sound, Server based music systems, Blu-Ray DVD....

I'm sure I'm leaving out a few...

Companies want to render what you currently have as obsolete. The best way to do that is with better quality, not worse. It will get better. It is getting better.

Just look around, and you'll see the progress of emerging technologies. There are a number of manufacturers here on AC even, that are on the cutting edge. Their businesses are growing, not shrinking.

Cheers

[darrenyeats]

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was....

Is that talking about hi-fi - or your post?!
Darren

[WGH]

My first Dynaco/Dual/Shure system cost $330 and sounded pretty decent for the time (early 70s), if I say so myself.

The younger generation is doing what we did, getting the most bang for their buck. The new iPod Touch costs $299 and it sounds damn better than any $300 system anyone here could put together. If they are luck enough to reach macrojack's ripe old age I think they will be spending thousands on equipment too.

It would be interesting to plug an iPod into the classic $330 70's system and see what sounds better - an iPod or a rumbling Dual turnable, cheap cartridge and scratchy records. No cheating now, record cleaning machines were not invented yet.

Wayne

[Daygloworange]

Is that talking about hi-fi - or your post?!
Darren

Nah dude, I was talkin' 'bout the future.

It's so bright, I gotta wear shades!

The future is always bright!

Cheers 

[TONEPUB]

Here's where you guys are all missing the boat as far as the future
goes....

When many of us were kids, the hifi thing was a boys only thing.

Nowdays, girls are just as into technology as boys are.  I see it
with my daughters friends all the time.  They have laptops, iPods
and slammed Honda civics with big exhausts that aren't their
boyfreinds cars.

Know what this means?  No more having to sneak electronics
purchases past the wife or girlfriend any more!

When your wife or girlfreind wants a new pair of speakers
or a 60" plasma, that's an easy sell...

Not like the old days at all. 

The new generation of guys has it a lot easier than us old timers!!!

[AdamM]

AdamM - That's the first convincing argument I've read but it reinforces a claim I made earlier that the trend has moved away from music and into sound effects. And I can definitely see where a store like that would prosper in many U.S. markets. You must be having the time of your life.

It's sound effects, but there's more than that, it's also scoring.  A number of high profile games hire symphonies and composers.  The Sydney opera house is doing a show where their symphony plays the music from a number of recent videogames: http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/sections/whats_on/features/play/

The game i'm currently on has a very large budget for audio: Composers, recording, etc.  We'll be using a name-brand symphony to score it.  Music is  BIG  part of sculpting the experience, and we have another dimension: Interactivity.  Changing the music based on performance, events, situation, progress.  YOU control the experience.  This is an entirely new beginning for music.  It's very exciting.

Additionally, many games store the audio at higher bitrates than CD.  It's not uncommon to have 96Khz audio.  That's more hifi than many of us are currently running right now.

Interactive (videogames) is now the largest sector for entertainment, period.   

Think of the displays, lots of people moving to buy HD screens.  This Christmas will see a massive push of 1080p displays - a new wave of cheap ones is coming out very shortly - you think all these people will want fidelity in their display but not in the audio?

The times are just a-changin.  Cameras didn't die alongside of film, they just went digital.  With the additional dimension of interactivity, i see us standing at the edge of a very exciting time indeed.

/A

[darrenyeats]

<snip>
The game i'm currently on has a very large budget for audio: Composers, recording, etc.  We'll be using a name-brand symphony to score it.  Music is  BIG  part of sculpting the experience, and we have another dimension: Interactivity.  Changing the music based on performance, events, situation, progress.  YOU control the experience.  This is an entirely new beginning for music.  It's very exciting.

Additionally, many games store the audio at higher bitrates than CD.  It's not uncommon to have 96Khz audio.  That's more hifi than many of us are currently running right now.

Interactive (videogames) is now the largest sector for entertainment, period.   

Think of the displays, lots of people moving to buy HD screens.  This Christmas will see a massive push of 1080p displays - a new wave of cheap ones is coming out very shortly - you think all these people will want fidelity in their display but not in the audio?

The times are just a-changin.  Cameras didn't die alongside of film, they just went digital.  With the additional dimension of interactivity, i see us standing at the edge of a very exciting time indeed.

/A

It's nice to see enthusiasm! One of the great things about our North American cousins.
Darren

[opnly bafld]

AdamM - That's the first convincing argument I've read but it reinforces a claim I made earlier that the trend has moved away from music and into sound effects.

It's sound effects, but there's more than that, it's also scoring.  A number of high profile games hire symphonies and composers.  The Sydney opera house is doing a show where their symphony plays the music from a number of recent videogames: http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/sections/whats_on/features/play/

The game i'm currently on has a very large budget for audio: Composers, recording, etc.  We'll be using a name-brand symphony to score it.  Music is  BIG  part of sculpting the experience, and we have another dimension: Interactivity.  Changing the music based on performance, events, situation, progress.  YOU control the experience.  This is an entirely new beginning for music.  It's very exciting.



/A

How many people hear a lot of music in movies, yet have no clue what it is and would never listen to it just as music (apart from the movie)?

Lin

[Daygloworange]

Actually, there's a fantastic parallel. Digital Photography.

Now, everybody has a digital camera. It started with 2 megapixel (or less)cameras. Now look at it. You got little kids running around with mega resolution digital camera's everywhere.

Cheers

[AdamM]

How many people hear a lot of music in movies, yet have no clue what it is and would never listen to it just as music (apart from the movie)?

Good question.  Does it matter? 

It sounds like we're searching for the description of hifi:

"Listening to just music at home on a 2 channel system. Tubes and single drivers may be a .."  etc. etc.

If we quantify hifi with a restrictive and limiting description like that, then sure, it's dead.   Just like Latin.

Let it evolve, and even embrace the evolution and it's far from dead. 

[opnly bafld]

How many people hear a lot of music in movies, yet have no clue what it is and would never listen to it just as music (apart from the movie)?

Good question.  Does it matter? 

It sounds like we're searching for the description of hifi:

"Listening to just music at home on a 2 channel system. Tubes and single drivers may be a .."  etc. etc.

If we quantify hifi with a restrictive and limiting description like that, then sure, it's dead.   Just like Latin.

Let it evolve, and even embrace the evolution and it's far from dead. 

Actually my point was, does it really matter if music is in something (movies-video games-etc.) when for many (most) people the importance of it is insignificant.
Really nothing to do with equipment or format just love of music.
I have never heard a video game kid talk about music in the game, sound effects yes, music no.

Lin

[WEEZ]

This whole thread reminds me of an editorial in Sterophool awhile back. I'm paraphrasing, but it went something like: 'Most people really don't like music, they just like the way it sounds'.

WEEZ

[AdamM]

Actually my point was, does it really matter if music is in something (movies-video games-etc.) when for many (most) people the importance of it is insignificant.
Really nothing to do with equipment or format just love of music.
I have never heard a video game kid talk about music in the game, sound effects yes, music no.

I think music is very important, even if when it's not called out specifically.  Few people call out the colour palettes in movies, but we feel the evil and coldness in a Disney flick when the bad guys are on the screen.  We feel the harshness of NYC in the movie 'Traffic' and the warmth of Mexico.  Deliberate colour use to shape an experience.  Our eye goes to Amélie in that movie, because she's wearing red on a green background.  Few people say 'Nice use of hue to direct the eye', but everyone looks where they should.  The use of longer lenses to convey tension, cropping someone off at the chin to make them seem tough, etc. etc.

Good directors, DOP's, composers have an arsenal of tricks which when used in concert all work subconsciously to convey emotion.

Heck, some things like editing are best when you don't notice them!

So just because people don't mention it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a very real and important part of the experience.

/A

[Double Ugly]

So just because people don't mention it, doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a very real and important part of the experience.

/A

While that may be true (I'm not disputing it), what difference does it make if the very transparency that makes it so effective results in the majority being blithely ignorant of its presence, much less its significance? 

IOW, regardless of how effective a particular music sequence in a movie or game may be in eliciting the desired response, how does it translate to a positive in the context of this thread when most won't recognize it as something apart from the whole?