Sonic Cap upgrade.....

openwheelracing · « **on:** 2 Sep 2007, 09:14 pm »

What would be the benefit of replacing caps (of the came value) in an existing crossover? What are your experiences? I know different caps sound different, but is there a general guideline? What are the benefits of the sonic cap?

DSK · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Sep 2007, 10:18 pm »

Do a search on Sonicap and bypass and you should find some info. There was a recent thread (in Ellis Audio ?) on this too, have a look in that Circle.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 02:27 am »

I have listened to and tried a lot of different caps. I can't really say that there is a "best" as some are better for some applications and others are better for another application.

The Sonicaps have been a favorite of mine though. They really don't impart much of their own sonic signature or have a character of their own. They are a clean cap with a fast discharge rate, and they are not expensive.

Cap upgrades can be the most significant area of upgrade with most crossovers and swapping out like values has no adverse effect.

When ordering Sonicaps from GR Research you get matched pairs at no extra charge as well. Since most caps can vary to within a 5% tolerance range the matching can get your speakers much closer to one another than they ever were.

You can order the values you need on line or call in an order. Drop me a call and I'll chat caps with you too.

Thanks for the post.

openwheelracing · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 05:17 am »

I am interested in upgrading my RS450's crossover, but don't want to waste the good parts on the existing crossover (the air core inductors for example). I wish Ninja offered more cost effective options (like the Sonic cap on the X-LS). What would you recommend if one wanted such upgrade (say maybe $50 worth of parts)?

BTW, are the Ninja upgrades complete new designs (different values)? How much similarities between Ninjas and Signatures?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 02:25 pm »

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I am interested in upgrading my RS450's crossover, but don't want to waste the good parts on the existing crossover (the air core inductors for example).

The stock air core inductors are not bad. I'd have no issues with re-using them.

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I wish Ninja offered more cost effective options (like the Sonic cap on the X-LS). What would you recommend if one wanted such upgrade (say maybe $50 worth of parts)?

The best upgrade on the cheap would be to by-pass the existing caps on the stock crossover with a .1uF Gen.2 Sonicap. You'll need three per speaker. Six of them at $2.70 each will be $16.20. A sheet of No Rez is a good cost effective upgrade too.

Secondly, and a little better still would be to replace the caps in the tweeter circuit with Sonicaps. That would be $53.20 for those four caps (per pair), then by-pass the cap in the woofer circuit with the .1uF Gen.2 cap.

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BTW, are the Ninja upgrades complete new designs (different values)? How much similarities between Ninjas and Signatures?

They are the same design just using high quality parts throughout and all point to point wired. Labor is included too. All you have to do is swap out the boards.

laserman · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Sep 2007, 10:12 pm »

Danny, would someone hear a noticeable difference if they used .1uF Sonicap Platinum as the bypass cap verses the Gen. 2 or can the extra money be spent better elsewhere?
Lou

Daygloworange · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 01:32 am »

Here's a link to some tests of that very thing.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=40349.0

Cheers

Danny Richie · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 02:12 am »

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Danny, would someone hear a noticeable difference if they used .1uF Sonicap Platinum as the bypass cap verses the Gen. 2 or can the extra money be spent better elsewhere?

Oh yea, that is easily a discernable difference. I am not sure that I would put that much into a speaker in this price range but that is up to the end user. 6 .1uF Sonicap Platinum by-pass caps are $174. In a all out effort speaker it is a no brainer.

laserman · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Sep 2007, 01:24 pm »

Thank you Denny and Danny.

openwheelracing · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2007, 04:31 pm »

Danny:

What are the differences between generation I and II Sonicaps? Do you carry both?

Thanks.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2007, 08:58 pm »

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What are the differences between generation I and II Sonicaps? Do you carry both?

They have a little bit of a different character to them. I have no idea what the mechanical differences are. Jeff doesn't give that stuff out.

All Sonicaps 1.0uF and larger are all Gen.1's. All Sonicaps .82uF and smaller are all Gen.2's.

djdube525 · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Sep 2007, 04:50 pm »

Hey Danny,

Apologies for the noob questions... saw your comments on modding approaches for the 450s...

Was wondering if you had similar recommendations towards the Strata Mini crossover...

I haven't pulled the plate amp to get a good look at it, but I would assume a similar scenario of replacing caps with Sonicaps... adding bypass caps if need be? Is there anything else you would consider doing to help improve things with minimal expense?

Also somewhat related... but not SoniCap... do you know how many sheets of NoRez you need to get per speaker? Do you just line the bottom "hump" or should one look to add some in the upper portion?

Lastly... if you had to keep expense to a minimum and you had to choose... would you suggest the NoRez application, or swap out the existing caps for improved caps be the better way to go?

Thanks!

Dave

Danny Richie · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Sep 2007, 07:11 pm »

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Was wondering if you had similar recommendations towards the Strata Mini crossover...

They can be upgraded as well.

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...but I would assume a similar scenario of replacing caps with Sonicaps... adding bypass caps if need be?

Yes.

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Is there anything else you would consider doing to help improve things with minimal expense?

No Rez.

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...do you know how many sheets of NoRez you need to get per speaker?

You can get by with one sheet per speaker.

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Do you just line the bottom "hump" or should one look to add some in the upper portion?

The upper section is pretty small. I'd save it for last and add any pieces of scrap to the top panel only.

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Lastly... if you had to keep expense to a minimum and you had to choose... would you suggest the NoRez application, or swap out the existing caps for improved caps be the better way to go?

I'd do caps first then No Rez.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Sep 2007, 07:27 pm »

Quote from: djdube525 on 19 Sep 2007, 04:50 pm

Lastly... if you had to keep expense to a minimum and you had to choose... would you suggest the NoRez application, or swap out the existing caps for improved caps be the better way to go?

I wrote a little about some of my observations with regards to lining enclosures with NoRez here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=32448.20

I consider it a very worthwhile upgrade as well. I wouldn't consider having a speaker without it.

Cheers

djdube525 · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Sep 2007, 07:42 pm »

Thanks!

And very very nice speakers!

They came out extremely nice.

openwheelracing · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Sep 2007, 03:32 pm »

Ok Danny, I am set to get the Sonicaps instead of Claritycaps. I need to replace a dented woofer anyway, might as well do it all at the same time.

Quick questions:

since I want to use RS450's existing PCB and inductors, how well do the holes line up for the sonicaps? I don't know the exact length of the stock caps and I hope the sonicaps can be a direct fit. The diameter of the cylinder is probably larger and that's ok, but I am worried about the length.

Are you able to provide me the values of the caps? Or do I have to go back to AV123?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Sep 2007, 03:36 pm »

I am sure that they will be a little longer as well as larger in diameter.

Still I am guessing that you will be able to get them onto the board.

Call me to order them and discuss options.

openwheelracing · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Sep 2007, 03:48 pm »

I will email you. I can't call during work.

highendman · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 03:04 pm »

Would the Gen I Sonic Cap alone be an improvement over Auricaps? I assume you like the Gen I, bypassed by the best Sonicaps better than the Auricaps.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Sep 2007, 03:13 pm »

I have sampled the Auricaps a couple of times. They are good caps but I like the Sonicaps better. I think the Auricaps color the midrange a little with a little smear compared to the Sonicaps and the Sonicaps are a little cleaner overall.