SP Tech Experience with Amps

Bigfish · « **on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:17 am »

I know I have read where Bob Smith was somewhere and evaluated amps(I think SS) connected to the bass drivers and tube amps connected to the mid/tweeters of a pair of SP Tech Speakers. I cannot locate this thread tonight and am wondering if anyone that owns SP Tech Speakers is currently connecting two amps per speaker? If so what is your experience versus a single amp per speaker?

Thanks,

Ken

TomS · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:30 am »

I think Christof may have 2 Odyssey Khartago's (stereo) on his Timepieces if I recall correctly.

gongos · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:59 am »

Bob told me to just get the best top to bottom amp/monoblocks I could afford and bypass biamping.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:23 am »

Ken....
How do your TP's sound with the Odyssey amps ? Thanks....

Chris

Christof · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 11:37 am »

Quote from: Bigfish on 30 Aug 2007, 02:17 am

I know I have read where Bob Smith was somewhere and evaluated amps(I think SS) connected to the bass drivers and tube amps connected to the mid/tweeters of a pair of SP Tech Speakers. I cannot locate this thread tonight and am wondering if anyone that owns SP Tech Speakers is currently connecting two amps per speaker? If so what is your experience versus a single amp per speaker?

Thanks,

Ken

Ken
This might be a bit tricky to pull off. As Tom mentioned, I use a pair of stereo Khartago amps in vertical biamp config. My amps are biased the same making it pretty easy to do. I owned 2 stereo amps at the time I purchased the 2.1's from Bob and the option of upgrading to mono's was not an option. I knew that Bob's speakers need LOTS of power and with my underpowered amps, vertical biamping was the most logical route to go. In the future my objective is to get the speakers as much clean power as I can afford and forget biamping.
-chris

TomS · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 11:56 am »

I agree 100% this can be tricky to pull off. I have done this several times on other speakers (Vandersteen mainly, Thiels once, Merlins briefly) that had bi-wire type of inputs (ahead of passive crossovers). There are many other threads addressing the merits of vertical vs. horizontal biamping and whether it's worth it at all. There also some inherent risks of making costly mistakes, so you have to watch what you're doing.

In ALL cases I have used two of the same stereo amps, with passive crossovers in place (also protects speakers), so I also didn't have to mess with gain matching and/or external crossover slopes. I'd much rather defer to the designer on anything as important as slopes/driver integration and driver interaction with the passive crossover components, and Bob Smith REALLY knows what he's doing there.

That being said, after I heard the SP Revelations with the Odyssey SE Mono's I can only imagine how nice 4 of them could sound. This would be truly ideal and you would not likely want for more horsepower and finesse at the same time.

If tube sound is what you're really after, though, that's a different deal entirely. I'll leave it to many others more experienced with the various suitable tube amps (like Bill Baker's Bella Extremes, Roger's RM's, George K's Moscode 401, among others) comment. I think it would be really tough to mix n' match and get it to work right.

I'd focus first on room tuning, treatments, or maybe source components first before I started along that path. Swapping amps for taste can be VERY expensive and time consuming. Having gone through a few myself (like Joule VZN-100's), I can really relate to this. You'd really have to be doing it just for fun, not worrying much about the transactions and costs.

Tom

RodMCV · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:15 pm »

Ken,
I have yet to amp an Sptech speaker and am looking forward to that day.

With Bi-amping, does the tweeter need a built in filter to exclude the low frequency input?

In pem discussions on this topic recently, most of the feedback I've gotten is to keep things simple
(less connects) and use lots of clean power. ie, Mono Belles 350A ref., DNA-500

Is any one using amps that feed best into no lower then 2.5 ohms?
I wondering if an amp that drives the 2 and 1 ohm range is really necessary.
Good topic!

Rod

mcullinan · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:22 pm »

I am dreaming of the day I get to hear the Timepiece 3.0s. You know they are good if Lonewolf has them... you do dont you? Do you think they will be a good match with Nuforce amps?
Mike

zybar · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:31 pm »

Quote from: RodMCV on 30 Aug 2007, 02:15 pm

Ken,
I have yet to amp an Sptech speaker and am looking forward to that day.

With Bi-amping, does the tweeter need a built in filter to exclude the low frequency input?

In pem discussions on this topic recently, most of the feedback I've gotten is to keep things simple
(less connects) and use lots of clean power. ie, Mono Belles 350A ref., DNA-500

Is any one using amps that feed best into no lower then 2.5 ohms?
I wondering if an amp that drives the 2 and 1 ohm range is really necessary.
Good topic!

Rod

Why not buy jermmed's DNA-500?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=44035.0

I know Joe and I know the DNA-500...both are beyond reproach.

George

Aether Audio · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 02:53 pm »

Ken & Guys,

Great topic! Just as a heads up to all... been busy as heck - not even had time to answer e-mails. I'm only responding now as I'm killing time before taking the dog to the vet. Big stuff going on but can't say a word until everything goes down. Will try to get back to everyone later today - finally.

Regarding amps, regardless what my wife says...BIGGER is better. Give me big-big...all the way BIG! As big as you can afford - and FAST (transient capability) - and with a high Damping Factor. But only if you want...smooth, relaxed highs, effortless midrange, powerful and tight bass, unlimited resolution and detail as well as a totally natural and organic sound overall. Just ask Karsten if you don't believe me. He's making waves in Denmark with a pair of Revelations that will end up reaching around the planet.

You want a "tinge" of extra "organic" added? Try a super clean tube pre like the Modwright. Tube power amps can work too, but they really need to be super clean - especially at the top and very bottom.

George,

How does the DNA-500 compare to the Belles Ref 350? We used the Belles 2 years ago in Vegas and it was awesome. Dave is coming out with an even better one at RMAF.

Have fun guys!

-Bob

RodMCV · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 30 Aug 2007, 02:31 pm

Quote from: RodMCV on 30 Aug 2007, 02:15 pm
Ken,
I have yet to amp an Sptech speaker and am looking forward to that day.

With Bi-amping, does the tweeter need a built in filter to exclude the low frequency input?

In pem discussions on this topic recently, most of the feedback I've gotten is to keep things simple
(less connects) and use lots of clean power. ie, Mono Belles 350A ref., DNA-500

Is any one using amps that feed best into no lower then 2.5 ohms?
I wondering if an amp that drives the 2 and 1 ohm range is really necessary.
Good topic!

Rod

Why not buy jermmed's DNA-500?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=44035.0

I know Joe and I know the DNA-500...both are beyond reproach.

George

I have a set of Eagle 11's mono soon to be finished, and a Gryphon Callisto now
waiting to hook up with my future sounds.

Interesting to hear others trials and amp tribulations as I await to plung!
Thanks George,

Rod How Many of you Guys going to RMAF'07?

reefrus · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 04:28 pm »

Hi all,
I had a pair Parasound JC-1, McCormack 500, Belles 150A Ref Monos in the past. They all sound good on the Revelations or SP Tech's speakers in general.
I've been using a pair of 350A Ref for the last 1 1/2 year and woundn't change to anything else. Dave Belles was at the RMAF 06 and had a chance to hear the Revelations driven by a pair of 350A Ref. He was mighty impressed.

I'm currently considering Belles new class A monoblocks but a bit worry about the power. They are only 75w/8ohm. 165w/4ohm but will go up to 450w/1ohm. Dave said he will bring the classA monoblocks to the RMAF 07. Maybe I'll have a chance to try them out

Bigfish · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 30 Aug 2007, 04:23 am

Ken....
How do your TP's sound with the Odyssey amps ? Thanks....

Chris

Chris:

My Statos Mono SEs seem to be fine! I have to further improve my source (S3) with an improved power supply, run dedicated power lines/outlets and treat the room as my next steps. My question was based on some people having a very strong preference for tube amps. If you purchase a tube amp with sufficient power for the Timepieces (say 200 watts) I think you are looking at a pretty healthy expense for amps. I was just wondering if you could drive the bass with SS and the mid/tweeters with tubes to have a power marriage of the best of both worlds? Sounds like it would be difficult to pull it off plus you would be dealing with the cost of more audio jewelry! Based on Bob's comments it sounds like the big Mac 501's or your big Butler's would be ideal amps for the SP Tech Speakers! Power Baby!!!!

Ken

mcullinan · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 07:59 pm »

Are the TimePieces 4, 6 or 8 ohm? Thanks
Mike

RodMCV · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 30 Aug 2007, 07:59 pm

Are the TimePieces 4, 6 or 8 ohm? Thanks
Mike

I think with one woofer they are 8 ohm impedance..
Rod

Bigfish · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:17 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 30 Aug 2007, 07:59 pm

Are the TimePieces 4, 6 or 8 ohm? Thanks
Mike

Mike:

Bob Smith recently quoted the Timepiece Effieciency as: (85dB SPL @ 2.83V/1M) and yes they are 8 ohm. The efficiency is why they love power and boy do they sound good when you feed it to them!

Ken

ted_b · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: reefrus on 30 Aug 2007, 04:28 pm

Hi all,
I had a pair Parasound JC-1, McCormack 500, Belles 150A Ref Monos in the past. They all sound good on the Revelations or SP Tech's speakers in general.
I've been using a pair of 350A Ref for the last 1 1/2 year and woundn't change to anything else. Dave Belles was at the RMAF 06 and had a chance to hear the Revelations driven by a pair of 350A Ref. He was mighty impressed.
I'm currently considering Belles new class A monoblocks but a bit worry about the power. They are only 75w/8ohm. 165w/4ohm but will go up to 450w/1ohm. Dave said he will bring the classA monoblocks to the RMAF 07. Maybe I'll have a chance to try them out

Add this to the new Belles. now we're talking...Belles charm + mega steroids!
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/

Stereophile review this month is quite taken by this approach. In fact, take a nice tube amp and add this for incredible dynamics (adds up to 10db; MF goal is 110db peaks!)

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:31 pm »

Ouch, it's 1500 sterling each! Worst case, that could be close to $6000 a pair!

RodMCV · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 08:43 pm »

Has any one read the long hair artical by Ken howard on the same sight?*

July '07 Stereophile link under reviews of the Supercharger on the *(musicfidelity site.)*
Very interesting how he interrelates the speaker impedance and phase for power requirements.
For example 8 ohms at -60 degrees is harder to drive then 4 ohms at zero degrees.

I guess the just is that many speakers are functionally lower impedance due to phase relationships!

Power/ mo betta

Rod

RodMCV · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Aug 2007, 09:11 pm »

Karsten,

What can you tell us all about the NuForce amps? Related to the SPTECH SPEAKERs.
I've been hearing a lot on the grape vine.
Thanks,

Rod