[JP78]

hello...i notice several persons on audiocircle own both svs or vmps subwoofers. can anyone comment on which has a larger quantity of bass?  i'm looking to add either:

- a pair of svs pci ultra or
-a pair of vmps larger

i am be looking at the new version of the svs ultra, which apparently has a far superior driver versus the old version.  the vmps larger would be the fully loaded model.  all of the subwoofers would be in the active configuration with amplifier....after we consider freight and dealer discounts it's pretty much the same ballpark.

out of respect for the vmps forum, if someone wants to privately share their opinions please message me.

[doug s.]

both vmps & svs have upgraded their drivers since this topic was discussed several years ago, back on harmonic discord (precurser to this forum).  it was almost universally accepted that vmps was the far better sub for music-based systems.  either was good for h-t based systems.

i have never heard any svs subs; i am way happy w/the performance of my vmps larger subs, (older upright-style cabinets w/later megawoofers, but not the latest single-driver style 15" megawoofer), in my music-only system...

doug s.

[JP78]

doug - i did find the thread you mentioned; thank you for pointing me in that direction.  i'm not really interested in musicality though, as this is for a dedicated theater application.  i only want prodigious output, specifically below 20Hz. i was hoping for the svs to save space, but if the vmps are that much better i'd be a fool not to choose the largers.

edit: doug this was the thread i assume you meant:
http://www.harmonicdiscord.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6687&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=svs+vmps&start=15

to clarify, the cs model tested in this thread is the base model of the subwoofer, while the ultra is supposed to be the 'top of the line' svs model.  the svs website states a single ultra has 7.5db more output than the revised cs model below 20hz.

man, i wish i could just order a pair of both and have all four subs at the same time.  purely for comparison purposes.  i wouldn't abuse the power of four well-regarded subs in my room - honest .

thanks.

[doug s.]

doug - i did find the thread you mentioned; thank you for pointing me in that direction.  i'm not really interested in musicality though, as this is for a dedicated theater application.  i only want prodigious output, specifically below 20Hz. i was hoping for the svs to save space, but if the vmps are that much better i'd be a fool not to choose the largers.

thanks.

jp78,

i haven't viewed the h-d threads in a long while; if you're only interested in h-t, & not music, svs may be ok; i really do not have much experience w/h-t.  but i do know that vmps will certainly be more than adequate there as well...

doug s.

[invicta51]

If you are located near So Cal, I could demonstate to you.  I have the SVS Ultra CS X 2 for HT and the VMPS larger for 2 ch music.  SVS is ported and the VMPS is sealed.  Two different ways of producing bass.  Both of mine are passive and are driven by Crown K2 amps.  Going below 20Hz in a big way may be asking a lot from both these subs.  Either one, you can not go too far wrong.  You may want to check out the soon to be delivered BMF (15" driver plus 2 - 18 in passive radiators) from AV123 or the sub-mersive from Mark Seaton.

[JP78]

invicta,

thanks for your reply.  sadly, i live in florida, so you couldn't be much further away if you tried.  how long have you owned your svs? could you tell me more of your experience with the subs?  what do you have them tuned for? do you ever clip your crown amplifier with the svs?

i read that as single vmps larger can clip the crown k series or the samson s-1000 amplifiers...i cannot imagine the type of juice this thing needs. what do you have your vmps powered with?  do you ever push it to the limits?

sorry for all the questions, but you're exactly the type of person who's brain i've been looking to pick. 

thanks,





 

[invicta51]

I have had both SVS and VMPS for about a year now.  I have them in a bedroom size room so I have not even come close to pushing or clipping the Crowns for either setup.  I have the VMPS powered with a Crown K2 in stereo mode with one channel driving the 12 in driver and one channel driving the 15 in driver.  I have it crossed over at 50 Hz from a NHT X2 crossover.  The bass is very tight and tuneful.  It replaced a HSU VTF3 and the improvement was very noticeable.  For music, it is hard to beat the value of a Larger.

The SVS is definitly a looser bass sound.  I have no ports blocked for max output, not max extension.  They are easier to drive and you will probably be able to get more out of any given amp.  Although the cylinder types look like water heaters, they are a space saver which was a consideration for me.  I have each channel of a K2 driving one CS Ultra.  The Ultras are rated for 4 Ohms, so I guess the K2 is pushing about 800 watts per channel.  Whether the new Ultra driver is going to be better than the former TC driver remains to be seen.  I bet SVS says it will be significantly better.  For HT, it is hard to beat the value of an SVS Ultra.

To choose only one is a tough call.  Try to listen to each one.  Everybody has different taste.

[doug s.]

I have had both SVS and VMPS for about a year now.  I have them in a bedroom size room so I have not even come close to pushing or clipping the Crowns for either setup.  I have the VMPS powered with a Crown K2 in stereo mode with one channel driving the 12 in driver and one channel driving the 15 in driver.  I have it crossed over at 50 Hz from a NHT X2 crossover.  The bass is very tight and tuneful.  It replaced a HSU VTF3 and the improvement was very noticeable.  For music, it is hard to beat the value of a Larger.

The SVS is definitly a looser bass sound.  I have no ports blocked for max output, not max extension.  They are easier to drive and you will probably be able to get more out of any given amp.  Although the cylinder types look like water heaters, they are a space saver which was a consideration for me.  I have each channel of a K2 driving one CS Ultra.  The Ultras are rated for 4 Ohms, so I guess the K2 is pushing about 800 watts per channel.  Whether the new Ultra driver is going to be better than the former TC driver remains to be seen.  I bet SVS says it will be significantly better.  For HT, it is hard to beat the value of an SVS Ultra.

To choose only one is a tough call.  Try to listen to each one.  Everybody has different taste.

you should try a second vmps...   aa

doug s.

[RGordonpf]

It should be noted that the new Larger sub with the single 15" driver is much more efficient than the previous model with the 12" and 15" drivers.  When I did the upgrade to the 15" driver I had to lower the gain on the sub amps considerably to keep things balanced.  I used two of the Dayton Loudspeaker plate amps (the smaller 500watt  version) to drive my 12" & 15" Larger.  The new 15" Larger sub is dual voice coil so I can still use my two plate amps.

[John Casler]

hello...i notice several persons on audiocircle own both svs or vmps subwoofers. can anyone comment on which has a larger quantity of bass?  i'm looking to add either:

- a pair of svs pci ultra or
-a pair of vmps larger

i am be looking at the new version of the svs ultra, which apparently has a far superior driver versus the old version.  the vmps larger would be the fully loaded model.  all of the subwoofers would be in the active configuration with amplifier....after we consider freight and dealer discounts it's pretty much the same ballpark.

out of respect for the vmps forum, if someone wants to privately share their opinions please message me.

In a direct comparison, you would likely find the LARGER has an advantage in the muscial area, in that the MegaWoofer drivers have a shorter travel, making them more responsive.  The adjustable mass system of tuning, would also allow a more accurate response, with lower distortion.

The SVS would likely have the advantage in "max" SPL's, since that is the primary goal of the design, but if you are using TWO of each, you would likely not explore those differences.

These differences too would be more or less, depending on other elements, such as room interaction and cross over frequencies.

The suggestion to go with the "Modded" Larger, using the new 15" MegaWoofer, rather than the 12 and 15's might blur the differences even more.

Over the years, I have found that many prefer the VMPS subs because they have an uncanny ability to "blend" with their current mains.

From Electrostatics, Dipoles, Ribbons, and various types of Dynamic Cones, the adjustability, low distortion and speed of B's designs carry an advantage.

But that said, if HT is the Only Goal, then again the advantage is less.

If Musically satisfying Audio is the driving goal, then the picture changes.

[JP78]

roger - thanks for the tip.  i wasn't aware the larger came in more than one configuration.

john - could you point to where i could find out more about the various larger configurations?  i don't mind efficiency really, i just want more spl.  which one do you think provides the greater output at the end of the day?  do both still have the adjustable passive radiator that people seem to either love or hate?

thanks again guys.

[PLMONROE]

What about a pair of VLA's? They ought to give you SPLs out of the wazoo!!!

[Brian Cheney]

We can do the Larger with the upgraded 12" and 15" with amp for $1239ea.

If you wanted to upgrade to the VSS 15" (no 12", cutout for the 12" plugged ) add $200 per side.

[John Casler]

john - could you point to where i could find out more about the various larger configurations?  i don't mind efficiency really, i just want more spl.  which one do you think provides the greater output at the end of the day?  do both still have the adjustable passive radiator that people seem to either love or hate?

thanks again guys.

The VSS is the VERY SOLID SUB (due to 2" baffle) includes MLS cabinet and new 15" Ultra-MegaWoofer with 120 oz magnet, and 15" Passive Radiator

LARGER is the standard for the last several years, has 12" and 15" Active drivers, and 15" Passive Radiator

NEW Single Driver LARGER, is the LARGER cabinet, with the new 15" Ultra-MegaWoofer with 120 oz magnet, and 15" Passive Radiator


Look here:

VSS (Very Solid Sub) powered Sub = $1650 each
$1850 in Piano Black

VSS unpowered version - subtract $400


Larger Sub --- $699.00 each Passive, $1099 w/1000w amp

Larger Sub w/MegaWoofers     --- $839 each Passive, $1239 w/1000w amp
 
NEW Larger w/new 15" Ultra-MegaWoofer with 120 oz magnet--- $1039 for unpowered, $1439 w/1000w amp

other options include:

Soundcoat = $75
SR-71 = $98
Finish upgrades = $200 (generally)
Silver wiring = $350


Look here for more info:


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=38428.0

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42410.0