[bullethead]

I posted here about a week or two ago relating to my experience as a recent "PC Audio Convert".  After hearing immediate improvements over my cd transport, compared with a Trends Audio UD-10 USB to digital out converter and a laptop I went all out so to speak and made a significant upgrade since then.

I purchased a Bel Canto DAC3 which has a USB input to see if indeed it would sound even better than the Trends UD-10 connected to the Bel Canto DAC2 which I had previously used.  That is the case.  It was almost a "common sense" upgrade for me, but I have to say that I now have no patience for cd transports of any kind.

I have noticed the DAC3 USB connection as a leaps and bounds improvement over the UD-10 and the DAC3 sounds entirely more "neutral" to my ears over the DAC2 which was on the warm side.  This is basically thoughts "out of the box" so to speak as I have only listened to the setup for about 6 hours straight last night after hooking it up.

I believe this is a new era and have proven to myself that PC based transports (at least to my ears and mind) are the key to superior sound.

[audio-heaven]

I too am a fan of hard drive based music, the convenience of having most of your CD collection at your fingertips (depending on the size of your hard drive of course ) frees up your music and consequently I find my listening repertoire has become more adventurous when using my computer based system.
The idea of hard drive based transport having higher sound quality has some very good reasoning behind it, hard drives have a larger buffer and are less prone to errors than their optical counterparts.

I personally prefer wireless options over cable based devices for the simple reason that you don't have to have your PC in the same room connected via a long cable, my computer although reasonably quiet still has some fan noise and puts out a fair amount of heat.

Now at last I come to the point how would a hard drive based system perform if the hard drive was freed from it’s noisy computer bound environment and put into a high end CD player with a cd-r drive that allowed you to rip your CD's directly onto a very large hard drive? Well such an option does exist:  http://www.zerooneaudio.com/products.htm   The few reviews I've read seem to agree that the superiority of the hard drive over CD is pretty enormous. As far as I'm aware these are the only 'high end' machines that have  a hard drive inside their players, which begs the question if the hard drive based players are so superior why aren't more of the mainstream hi fi mfs doing it as well? Surely they risk having PC and other companies who make peripheral USB and streaming devices take a huge bite out of the market for front end digital components.
There are still a lot of high end CD Players on the market and more being brought out all the time, even allowing for the fact that not everybody who loves good quality audio and owns a computer wants to get involved with the complexities of a computer based audio system, I still would have thought that more high end CD players would be starting to incorporate hard drives in with their CD players, most people these days can use a DVD recorder using a hard drive so a CD player with a hard drive should present few problems.
With the cost of even the large hard drives going down all the time I don’t think that the cost of implementing one in a CD player would drive up the cost beyond the reach of most people.

Surely this third way for digital playback is a good idea, even if you have a computer and are happy with using it as your main transport it still means you have to leave your PC on all the time just so you can listen to music when the mood strikes you without having to go into another room boot up your PC and open up the music playing programme ect ect ect.

Personally I’m quite happy using my computer as part of my system but occasionally I wish I could still have the convenience of my PC based system without having to boot up the computer.

Just a thought

[Jampot]

How 'high end ' did you have in mind?

I dare say these would give the Zero One a run for your money.

http://www.redwineaudio.com/Olive.html

Vinnie Rossi has forsaken the Squeezebox in favour of modding the Olive servers and IIRC rates it sonically superior to his iMod (which is no slouch - I have one) and of course the storage potential is nearly unlimited.

I also use Squeezeboxes and agree completely - hard drive based playback is the way to go. Enjoy the journey

Jim

[bullethead]

audio-heaven

The limitations of a harddrive transport are apparent.  One thing is storage space.  I understand that you can get a terabyte into one of these things, but if it breaks down (as many harddrive based DVRs have in my household) you're pretty stuck unless there are user serviceable parts inside.

I think there has to be some sort of "cloud in the sky" a standardized central database of all the music ever produced (sort of like the Qwest commercials from the dot com boom) in which a device may connect to (again industry wide consesus and standards based) and stream the bits to the stereo via internet.  I know I am not dreaming technically but due to market forces such a thing may never happen.  There's simply no "universal consensus" in technology.  It's not like a printed book, what you see is what you get.  There's to much change and competition in the market for everyone to ever reach a deal for such a thing.  I do think that we will see services similar to this (perhaps amazon.com etc...) but not all music will be available.  And each provider will have their own unit (think Microsoft Zune vs Apple iPod)

Until then I will continue to use FLAC and support music stores which offer it (such as bleep.com).  Since I have an ever upgradeable array of NAS devices which I can service myself I have no choice but to become an IT guy in my own house and am proud of that fact and willing to help others to get the level of sound quality and convenience that I have recently discovered.

[audio-heaven]

I agree with you that hard drives do have their limitations, I think the idea of a player like the Zero One is that you load the hard drive up with all your core listening content and use the CD player part for listening to the periphery of your collection, I think I’m like most music lovers in that I have favourites that get a lot of play time but quite a lot of my collection is listened to far less often.

It seems to me that the convergence of quality audio reproduction and computer hardware is unstoppable, I am not saying there is or won't be room for anything else but the quality of computer audio is getting better all the time, most of the companies who are taking advantage of this seem to be relatively new Slim Devices, Trends, Olive to name but a few, another force to be reckoned with are the small outfits like Empirical Audio who are trying to take computer based audio to true audiophile status by upgrading existing hardware and designing their own.

These are interesting times we live in our options are ever increasing and for people like us it is a good thing, but there are a lot of audiophiles out there who don't do the computer thing, for them digital audio still means a CD player. Of course there’s nothing wrong with that but they are missing out on the advantages of what a hard drive based system has to offer, the Zero One Players are an attempt to remedy that and bridge the gap between computers and conventional hi fi.

As for me I have a highly modified DVD player as a CD transport a small collection of DAC’s plus a couple of computer based transports so I have the best of both worlds
The Zero One concept is an interesting and a logical one, weather it will be just a footnote in the history of audio dead ends (like DCC anyone remember that one!) time will tell.

I am really glad you are enjoying the Bel Canto DAC I have heard it’s a very nice sounding thing and I am with you on your quest to try and help others when I can or where my knowledge will permit me.

[audio-heaven]

How 'high end ' did you have in mind?

I dare say these would give the Zero One a run for your money.

http://www.redwineaudio.com/Olive.html

Vinnie Rossi has forsaken the Squeezebox in favour of modding the Olive servers and IIRC rates it sonically superior to his iMod (which is no slouch - I have one) and of course the storage potential is nearly unlimited.

I also use Squeezeboxes and agree completely - hard drive based playback is the way to go. Enjoy the journey

Jim

I don't doubt it Jim although we don't seem to have Olive music servers over here in the UK plus to get the very best from them you need the RWA mods (or so I've been told) The Zero one is designed to be pretty high end out of the box, not that you couldn't modify it to sound even better I'm sure aa
Unfortunately I've never heard an Olive server or a Zero One so I'm only really commenting on the technology+ convenience thing

I do have a Squeezebox though so at least we can get some cool things in the UK

[Double Ugly]

I do have a Squeezebox though so at least we can get some cool things in the UK

If you have Wayne @ Bolder Cable mod your SB and then pony up for an Ultimate II PS, I doubt you'll be wondering about how the Olive or Zero One sound, modded or otherwise.

FWIW, I no longer own a Bolder-modified SB or Ultimate PS, nor do I have any association with Wayne or Bolder Cable other than as a former customer. 

I do, however, reserve the right to purchase Bolder equipment in the future. 

-Jim

[audio-heaven]

I no longer own a Bolder-modified SB or Ultimate PS, nor do I have any association with Wayne or Bolder Cable other than as a former customer. 

I do, however, reserve the right to purchase Bolder equipment in the future. 

-Jim

May I enquire Jim what is your digital noise making contraption of choice these days?

Just being nosey

[Double Ugly]

May I enquire Jim what is your digital noise making contraption of choice these days?

Just being nosey

Yes, you may.   

I'm using a highly-modified Slim Devices Transporter sans external DAC or pre-amp.  It is connected directly to Butler Monad monoblocks feeding SP Technology Timepiece 2.1 speakers (to be replaced eventually with SP Tech Revelations).  My computer is a Mac Pro situated one floor above and on the opposite end of the house from my system.  I stream the music (most of which was ripped to FLAC) via a wireless router.

That's more than you asked, but I thought I'd lead-turn a few potential questions, what with you being nosey and all. 

-Jim

*Edited* - I should've mentioned my computer is up and running 24/7, so no "boot up" issues here.

[audio-heaven]

May I enquire Jim what is your digital noise making contraption of choice these days?

Just being nosey

Yes, you may.   

I'm using a highly-modified Slim Devices Transporter sans external DAC or pre-amp.  It is connected directly to Butler Monad monoblocks feeding SP Technology Timepiece 2.1 speakers (to be replaced eventually with SP Tech Revelations).  My computer is a Mac Pro situated one floor above and on the opposite end of the house from my system.  I stream the music (most of which was ripped to FLAC) via a wireless router.

That's more than you asked, but I thought I'd lead-turn a few potential questions, what with you being nosey and all. 

-Jim

*Edited* - I should've mentioned my computer is up and running 24/7, so no "boot up" issues here.

You may consider my nosey to be more than satisfied I'm envious I can't even afford a highly un-modified Transporter let alone anything else I'm sorry to say.

I do listen to Flac files though so I'm at least listening to somethig as good as what you've got

[Double Ugly]

I'm envious I can't even afford a highly un-modified Transporter let alone anything else I'm sorry to say.

Nah, don't be envious.  Just work with Wayne, get a few modifications and save up the the PS.  If you haven't heard it, you have no idea what an incredible difference it can and will make.  I know, because I was the first to tell Wayne he was wasting his time sending one to me for an audition a couple of years ago.

48 hours after it arrived, I owned it. 

I do listen to Flac files though so I'm at least listening to somethig as good as what you've got

Well, to paraphrase the immortal words of a great humanitarian (and groundskeeper) -

So (you) got that goin' for (you), which is nice.
-Carl Spackler

 

Seriously though, talk to Wayne and see what you can work out.  You have nothing to lose and a lot (potentially) to gain.

-Jim

[audio-heaven]

I did have a brief chat with Wayne on here the other day and I told him to expect my Squeezebox as soon as I've robbed enough banks to afford the modifications Wayne didn't tell me to rob the banks BTW the voices in my head told me to do that it's just one of a number of financing options I'm considering at the moment, if you tell me which bank you belong to I will try and avoid holding up your particular branch

*DISCLAIMER* for anyone who reads this post and actually believes they are looking at the plotting of a master criminal, please don't call the police I don't really rob banks I am actually too stupid to succeed in such a venture thank you

Being serious for a moment I have already had a custom DC power supply made for my Squeezebox 3 it is of extremely high quality using large Black Gate reservoir capacitors Shcottky Diodes ect ect I don't know how it would compare with Waynes ultimate PS but I have a feeling they might be close, this will hopefully save me some money it already made a profound impact on the sound quality

I look forward to the day when my modified Squeezebox arrives at my door until then I shall get on with building myself a RAKK DAC kit.  aa

Cheers Jim

James

[Jampot]

we don't seem to have Olive music servers over here in the UK

I'm in UK. Olives in EU are Hifidelio products - there website seems to be down this evening or I would post a link. It is available in English.

Wayne just recently offered to send us an Ultimate power supply for a demo tour in Europe if there was enough interest -

If there is enough interest from the UK (about 4 or 5 folks should do it) I will consider setting that one up for 240 VAC and send it over the pond.

in this thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42165.20

I am in the fortunate position that I have a daughter living in the States and visit often, so I can arrange to bring stuff home conveniently, but Red Wine Audio do have a UK dealer - see the website.

If you get Waynes mods you won't need the Raak for the squeezebox I promise You!

Jim

[audio-heaven]

I'm in UK. Olives in EU are Hifidelio products - there website seems to be down this evening or I would post a link. It is available in English.

Thanks for the info, I had seen a Hifidelio and thought it looked like an Olive but wasn't entirely sure I should have looked into it further I think I read somwhere thet RWA deals with us UK dwellers

Wayne just recently offered to send us an Ultimate power supply for a demo tour in Europe if there was enough interest -
If there is enough interest from the UK (about 4 or 5 folks should do it) I will consider setting that one up for 240 VAC and send it over the pond.

That's cool I would think of taking part but I am moving house in the near future so it would be unwise for me to sign up to anything like that at the moment, if there are enough people to do it I look forward to hearing what you thought of it I would have been interested to see how it compaired to my own super supply

If you get Waynes mods you won't need the Raak for the squeezebox I promise You!

I would you know but I have 2 systems so I am looking at the modded squeezebox for one and the RAKK for the other
Thank you for the recommendation though I'm very sold on the idea when I get enough money the Squeezebox's day of moification will come