BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?

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Toka

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #100 on: 20 Nov 2007, 04:54 pm »
I really feel vindicated here. This review is questionable at best. The whole point of design and engineering is to provide as accurate and linear a product as possible.

I agree wholeheartedly...an attitude that is all too rare nowadays. Cheers!  8) You can't please everybody, give them all filet mignon and someone will want McDonald's.  :roll: Anyway, keep up the good work!

rob80b

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #101 on: 20 Nov 2007, 07:16 pm »
Just curious if we all read the same, I found the overall review on the positive side and any nitpicks seemed to be explained but not in a negative sense.

Robert

chris russell

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #102 on: 20 Nov 2007, 10:09 pm »


 Hi James,

 I must admit I awaited with abated breath for the December hi-fi news to read the review on the BCD1. When I read it I was totally aghast by the journalism on the product. I am not showing any bias towards your products but I cannot understand how these people who supposedly profess an expertise in deciphering products produce an article which basically imparts that the CD player for the price is below par. '.. it nonetheless failed to engage this listener, holding back the real workings of music expected from a player at this pricepoint'. My main concern is that there is no mention as to the system used with the  CD player. This I feel is important as most  products work well with given electronics and can sound awful in others. Also the review compares this player with a Quad 99 which appears discredited in this review.

I am also concerned that THE CDS USED (PENTAGLE) would have difficulty in shining in any system.
Thus my conclusion on this matter is twofold. One is that two reviews in different magazines come up with different results and thus would largely influence the reader before auditioning. If you were to take the journalists together put them in a room and demonstrate the CD1 with the right ancillaries such as bryston pre-power and PMC speakers would their view change? (Almost certainly. CR)
 Secondly I would be grateful if anyone owning the CD1 to give their view on this website as to whether they are happy with the CD1 and made the right choice. I understand that a great deal of preference is subjective but I cannot understand a product that can be highly praised on the one hand and virtually written off in another.
 

  The Hi-Fi News review of the CD-1 player by Andrew Harrison reads a lot like other reviews of non-British products as written in the British Press: "We can find no technical flaws whatever in this product, in fact it definitively out-performs other (British) products we have reviewed. Having said that, we like the flaws in the British stuff better. They seem more 'engaging', somehow".

   I guess we cannot realistically expect to 'win' an argument over opinions based on built-in preferences for flawed and colored reproduction, so we shall not attempt that here.  What we can and will do, of course, is to point out their own measurements of the performance of the BCD-1, and disagree with the specious conclusions reached on the basis of that data.

   One of the things said in the 'Lab Report' sidebar to the review was; "But here's the issue with such high-performing hardware like the BCD-1, hardware that vastly exceeds the potential of the 16-bit source material. So often, opening up the 'dynamic window' to way beyond the notional 96dB resolution of the format can serve to expose low-level distortions and other art(i)facts you'd rather not hear!"  That statement is at variance with the laws of physics, and is at polar opposites with Bryston's philosophy of over 35 years in making the best audio equipment possible within the technical limits available at the time of manufacture.

   The reason Hi-Fi News's statement is technically erroneous goes back to the very theory of digital recording, and includes something called 'dither'. Dither, of course, is the very low-level random noise injected into the digital signal at the time of recording, to reduce quantization distortion at the LSB level.  That factor, together with the number of available bits, defines the lower end the dynamic range of the recording.  That dynamic range, and the minimum level of distortion present at all levels within the quantized signal, can only be preserved with playback equipment whose own specifications exceed by a considerable margin the limits of the recording medium. In fact, if the playback equipment is, "like the BCD-1, hardware that now vastly exceeds the potential of the 16-bit source material", it will by definition be the most accurate presentation of the original recording possible.

  To assume that the playback equipment has some role in obscuring the lowest-level material in recordings, on the assumption that it will 'hide' something unpleasant at the lower end of the dynamic range, (as was stated in the article), is deliberately to throw the baby out with the bathwater.  It may possibly render an incompetently-produced recording more palatable, (though that is far from guaranteed), but it will certainly be at the expense of obscuring the gorgeous subtleties of the very finest recordings, and overlaying the playback equipment's limitations onto those of the recording medium. In other words, 'homogenizing' all your favorite recordings to a standard of mediocrity.

  If that is what the reviewer personally prefers, that is one thing, and I suppose we should be thankful for the reviewer's honesty in alerting us to his perceptual and judgemental limitations. But to indict a technically superior piece of equipment on the basis that it is somehow 'too good' for the recording medium runs completely counter to the quest I think we all have, and certainly do at Bryston; to approach audible perfection as closely as technically possible.  We are proud that the Bryston BCD-1 does exactly this, and I invite all to listen through it for the best reproduction of CDs available, as has been stated by all of the many other reviewers up to this point.

Chris Russell
CEO and Chief of Engineering,
Bryston Ltd.
« Last Edit: 21 Nov 2007, 02:50 pm by chris russell »

Phil A

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #103 on: 20 Nov 2007, 11:54 pm »
I always find it odd how much stock people tend to put in reviewers.  When my friend worked at the high end shop and I did most of installs/set-ups with him, I can't tell you how many times people would come into the store with a magazine's ratings and not even want to hear for themselves it there is something that suits their tastes and might be less money.  On one delivery we did, a reviewer for a major publication happened to live next door to where we did the delivery.  From memory we delivered Magnepan 1.6s and a Rel sub and a Rotel pre-amp which had a zone 2 output and the person had extensive custom wiring done to distribute audio throughout the house.  At the time I had previously owned the prior Rotel pre-amp model and gave the person written instructions on utilization of the second zone as his (whole house) installer needed them.  We set the stuff up.  The 'expert' reviewer (who by the way has written a review of at least one piece of Bryston equipment I'm aware of several yrs. back) moved the sub from the front right corner to the rear of the room towards the middle of the room in back of the main listening/watching couch and hooked it up wrong on top of it.  Needless to say, my friend was quite annoyed to have to go back and set it up again and bite his tongue.

I look at specs but don't feel the need to dismiss or embrace something solely on those.  I may look at reviews, but in a similar fashion I don't feel the need to dismiss or embrace something solely on those.  One has to remember that magazines get advertising revenues and reviewers get accomdation sales too.  They usually have a list of the advertisers in the current magazine but I've never seen a list of accomodation sales reviewers have gotten.  While I also wouldn't dismiss or embrace a review based on those factors alone, I believe there is no substitute for listening yourself in a room where you can be familiar with the equipment and speakers used with music that you are familiar with. 

I realize it is nice for manufacturers who have put hard work in the R&D and getting a pat on the back from the press covering their type of product (whether that is cars or boats or whatever).  I find it far more useful reading what owners have to say about the product and what they use it with and what they had in the system prior to that.  Having done many deliveries and set-ups of things, one learns that people have many different opinions on what is good sound.  Some things can sound better or worse in certain systems as well. You can go into someone's house who chose a product over another and then go into another house and find the opposite product was chosen.  There is no wrong or right.  I have friends who are not audiophiles and have helped all sorts of people who enjoy listening to music on basic home theater in a box systems.  Reviewers are like everyone else in a particular field.  Some are better than others, some are OK, some are less than OK, some have more expertise in certain areas than others.

Zero

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #104 on: 21 Nov 2007, 12:08 am »
It can be challenging for a reviewer not to weave personal bias into their assessment of a product. We are all human and sometimes we get caught with our pants down - despite good intentions. I'm afraid such is the case here, as this reviewers conclusion conflicts itself with the supported data. At the end of the day, our job is nothing more than the process of bringing in a product, report on what it can and cannot do, where it fits into the market, and to whom it may appeal. He enjoys a bit of romance, a bit more obvious flavor....   can't caste any stones for that. However, in such a position,  it is a bit imprudent to judge a component based on the merits of your own taste. Instead, it should be purely on the merits of the products design and performance as it relates to the market it occupies. Of course, thats just me - what the hell do I know..  :lol: :lol:

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #105 on: 21 Nov 2007, 01:00 pm »
It can be challenging for a reviewer not to weave personal bias into their assessment of a product. We are all human and sometimes we get caught with our pants down - despite good intentions. I'm afraid such is the case here, as this reviewers conclusion conflicts itself with the supported data. At the end of the day, our job is nothing more than the process of bringing in a product, report on what it can and cannot do, where it fits into the market, and to whom it may appeal. He enjoys a bit of romance, a bit more obvious flavor....   can't caste any stones for that. However, in such a position,  it is a bit imprudent to judge a component based on the merits of your own taste. Instead, it should be purely on the merits of the products design and performance as it relates to the market it occupies. Of course, thats just me - what the hell do I know..  :lol: :lol:

Hi Zero,

Are you a reviewer?

james

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #106 on: 22 Nov 2007, 03:28 pm »

Hi nobel,

You asked to me to forward any feedback on the Bryston CD Player from people who felt they made the right choice. Here is one from a Mastering Engineer.




"November 22nd  2007,

From: Kike Sanmartin
Sent: Tue 11/20/2007 11:45 PM
To: Bryston
Subject: Bryston BCD-1 CD


Hey guys:

I am the proud owner of a BCD-1 serial number 94 -- Silver... Amazing product I must say.
 
Although here in Chile Bryston is well know in the high-end market because of your Professional sound, this CD player is over-whelming... I also have a Meridian G08, a PS Audio DAC with custom modifications, and a very small and simple system..
 
PASS LABS XA 30.5
PASS LABS X 0.2
BW 805 S
NORDOST FRY AND HEIMDALL
NORDOST VISHNU AND BRAHMA.
EXACTPOWER CONDITIONER
 
And even new, with few hours over the counter the BCD-1 works perfect with my system. Hours and hours and I keep hearing new things, new sounds. I work in the audio industry as a mastering engineer... and I must say, this unit is going to become part of my reference audio gear.

I know that the sound changes for the better with time in the best possible way... I don't know how many hours do you think is enough for a critical listening? 200? Should I create a disc with sounds like wave and sine sounds to burn in the system? I have done that in few ones... and it works just fine.
 
Keep up the excellent work.

By the way, excellent BP-26 DAC that I own as well and it is also amazing..
 
Thanks,
Enrique Sanmartin.
Electronic Engineer
Mit"




« Last Edit: 22 Nov 2007, 05:06 pm by James Tanner »

Zero

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #107 on: 22 Nov 2007, 05:16 pm »
James,

Affirmative. Granted, you're not going to see my call-sign on a deluxe print mag at a Barnes n Noble near you.  :lol:

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #108 on: 22 Nov 2007, 05:40 pm »
James,

Affirmative. Granted, you're not going to see my call-sign on a deluxe print mag at a Barnes n Noble near you.  :lol:

Great -it will be excellent to have your point of view as we move along.

james

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #109 on: 29 Nov 2007, 05:35 pm »
My sources tell me we have another great review on the CD Player coming out of England next month.


james

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #110 on: 1 Dec 2007, 10:08 pm »
Hi All,

Two more reviews for you coming soon on the CD Player -Stereophile and Absolute Sound.

james

mfsoa

Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #111 on: 2 Dec 2007, 06:58 pm »
Hi James,
How close did you guys come to putting a digital input into the BCD-1?
Would there have been some sonic penalty to implementing, or perhaps was it significant additional cost?

Personally I think that this would have added a lot to the desireability to this player. It would be great to have the advantage of the master clock w/ CD and the ability to use a Squeezebox into it as well. But if it would have moved the price up too high I understand.

Oh well, I guess that's what the BDA-1 is for! Is there a release date for the BDA-1?

Thanks

-Mike

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #112 on: 2 Dec 2007, 07:08 pm »
Hi James,
How close did you guys come to putting a digital input into the BCD-1?
Would there have been some sonic penalty to implementing, or perhaps was it significant additional cost?

Personally I think that this would have added a lot to the desireability to this player. It would be great to have the advantage of the master clock w/ CD and the ability to use a Squeezebox into it as well. But if it would have moved the price up too high I understand.

Oh well, I guess that's what the BDA-1 is for! Is there a release date for the BDA-1?

Thanks

-Mike

Hi Mike,

Yes we did consider a digital input into the CD Player but it would have meant having to reclock and resample the signal. The BDA-1 and the BP26 DAC preamp are the choices if you want to use a product like the Squeezbox.

Have a look at the recent review on the BP26 in Secrets of Home Theater Magazine as he tested it with a Squeezebox.
http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/bryston_bp-26da.pdf

james
« Last Edit: 5 Dec 2007, 01:48 pm by James Tanner »

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #113 on: 7 Dec 2007, 04:10 pm »
Hi All,
 
Another terrific review on the Bryston BCD-1 Player.

This time in UHF Magazine - http://www.uhfmag.com/

Hope to have a link to the review for you today.
 
It is interesting to note how all of the reviews (including this one) so far have discussed how the Bryston CD Player lets you hear into the music and is capable of resolving very low level signals ..... as well as excellent 'pace and timing.'
 
But then check out page 3 of the review where the quote is:

"We took the Bryston into the lab and

proceeded to run some our usual batch of

instrument tests. The jitter was so low we

actually couldn’t read it."

 



james

PS- I have a PDF of the review - if you want a sneak preview send an email to jamestanner@bryston.ca

 
« Last Edit: 7 Dec 2007, 08:14 pm by James Tanner »

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #114 on: 8 Dec 2007, 02:16 am »
UHF Magazine review link for Bryston CD Player

http://www.bryston.ca/pdfs/07/UHFReviewBCD-1.pdf


james

Phoenix

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #115 on: 9 Dec 2007, 01:24 pm »
Nice review, James!

However, I have to agree with UHF that a flimsy CD tray is a "no go" in a first class CD Player.

I have an relatively old Kenwood player which has a formidable tray (but not perfect). Anyway, it is much(!) better than any CD Player compared at the same price nowadays.

A flimsy tray (or everything else which gives me the impression of being cheap) is a KO-criterion for a product which costs that much as the BCD-1 does - no matter how good it is otherwise.

Think of it this way:
If you open a Bryston amplifier you think: "Wow, look at this...! This quality and attention to detail! And it looks so good, though you don't even see it!"

On the other hand if you open a rattly CD tray you think: "What's that?!? This should be better!"


James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #116 on: 9 Dec 2007, 02:17 pm »
Nice review, James!

However, I have to agree with UHF that a flimsy CD tray is a "no go" in a first class CD Player.

I have an relatively old Kenwood player which has a formidable tray (but not perfect). Anyway, it is much(!) better than any CD Player compared at the same price nowadays.

A flimsy tray (or everything else which gives me the impression of being cheap) is a KO-criterion for a product which costs that much as the BCD-1 does - no matter how good it is otherwise.

Think of it this way:
If you open a Bryston amplifier you think: "Wow, look at this...! This quality and attention to detail! And it looks so good, though you don't even see it!"

On the other hand if you open a rattly CD tray you think: "What's that?!? This should be better!"



Hi Phoenix

Yes the tray issue was a concern and we did look at 5 other tray options. When we realized that the tray is in no way involved in the performance we decided to go with a tray that was readily available, has a long track record, can be easily repaired, and has a history of dependability.

Your right though I realize some people buy for other reasons other than ultimate performance. Afterall you don't buy a Rolex to tell the time- right?

james

James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #117 on: 9 Dec 2007, 03:49 pm »
Hi All,

Have a request:

If anyone out there has the Bryston CD Player I would be interested in your comments about the RCA vs the Balanced XLR outs on the Player.

Also if you have a BP26 or BP25 with Balanced Inputs in combination with the BCD-1 CD Player - comments appreciated.

james

Phoenix

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #118 on: 9 Dec 2007, 10:29 pm »
Quote
Your right though I realize some people buy for other reasons other than ultimate performance. Afterall you don't buy a Rolex to tell the time- right?

Not really!  :wink:

I can see Bryston's approach toward the "ultimate performance". And of course, since it is an CD Player the main task is to get the best sound out of this medium.

I don't know if this is only my opinion, but I think that a product gains a lot when it "feels" good! Difficult to describe though.
It's the sound of the on/off switch, the feel of the volume control, how fine the volume can be tuned via remote,  the "feedback" of the source select knob, and how a unit sounds when you knock on it.

For example: IMO a technically good switch is a failure in a consumer product, when it sounds and feels like a cheap toy which is going to break the next time you use it.

As with the CD tray: How does it sound? How fast does it come out? How sturdy is it? Does it lock gently when going back into the player (or when it reaches it's "open" end point)? Is the tray centered, while back in the front? ...

The best term for this would be "Perceived Quality".

While this has nothing to do with the real quality, it is an aspect which makes a good product even better - especially on an emotional basis. And that's the point: You don't only like the product because of it's technical specifications, but also because it's overall appearance is pleasing and satisfying.

Of course, (mechanical) perfection is expensive and not always possible. And you surely have good reasons for this kind of tray.

And maybe I'm simply nitpicking (I worked in QA for a long time  :lol: ).





James Tanner

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Re: BCD-1 CD Player Reviews?
« Reply #119 on: 9 Dec 2007, 11:12 pm »
Hi Phoenix,

I agree the "Perceived Quality" part of any purchase is important as is the 'Emotional'.  I guess I am a little tainted though because over the years I have seen many products in this business that cost many thousands of dollars to achieve a Perceived Quality and simply do not even get the basics correct when it comes to state of the art performance.

Your points are well taken though and I appreciate your comments.

James