[acd483]

I've just gotten an ear full of what single driver speakers are capable of thanks to Jon Ver Halen of Lowther America. He kindly lent me a pair of Alerion speakers using the Lowther DX-55 driver, and of course my big issue was lack of bass extension. Upper end was pretty satisfying, though they did lack some of shimmer I was hoping for. What did turn my world upside down was the mids. Especially vocals, especially Alison Krauss.

My issue? Do I buy a pair of drivers and build a cabinet and still suffer from the downsides of the Lowthers (especially as many in the field, much more knowledgeable than myself are still trying to tackle that quandry)? Then I go back and re-read Srajan's review of the Zu Druids. From the looks of things, with an aluminum tweeter, they should be bright and overly clarified, not so writes the man who drove me to buy a RWA Signature 30 (which we are extremely happy with so far!), as quite the opposite is apparently true.

My quandry...I'm a doubting Thomas and do much research before reaching for my wallet. Does anyone in the Chicagoland area have a pair of Zu speakers they wouldn't mind showing off? I'm very excited to hear the sound first hand, because from what I've read they solve some of the major issues I have with the Lowthers...and that Maserati Blue. OH momma!

Srajan, I also read your interesting review of Rethm which modify the Lowthers in a thoughtful way...and although they are way out of my price range and frankly hideous to have around...that review kept me critical of my own expectations in this field. Thanks very much for your continued hard work!

[zybar]

Zu is like Toyota or Honda. They will dominate because they excel. This could take a long while because many of you will be slow to change. However, it is coming. They are building the better mousetrap. They are innovative and persevering.

Zu dominating like Toyota or Honda?  I don't think so.   

If you ask the average audiophile if they have heard of Zu, the answer will be no more than yes.

Now if you ask that same question and substitute in Wilson, Vandersteen, B&W, and a few others for Zu, the results will be quite different.

I am not saying which one is better, but I am extremely confident in saying that Zu will remain a small niche player (at best) in the audiophile world.

Not that there is anything wrong with that...

Enjoy the new Presence speakers Macrojack.   

George

[mihilli]

Hmmmm, nice to hear Zu is coming out with amazing new products.  But a bit disturbing that I bought my Definition 1.5's 18 months ago and they have now been superceded not only by the Definition Pros but also now by a new , less expensive speaker which it appears Zu is touting as being better then the Defintions.

Bye bye resale value.......................

[miklorsmith]

The Def. Pros were never intended to be categorically better than the 1.5's.  They are a different product aimed at a crazier market.  Yes, they do have greater bass potential but only in the lowest bottom end.  They require a separate bass amp and equalizer too and most folks don't need the extra that they have.

Also, I seriously doubt Zu said the Presence is the purely better speaker.  It sounded like they said there were things they do better.  For instance, Druids are a better nearfield speaker than the Definitions.  That doesn't mean they're "better".  It could be that in rooms of a certain size, the Presence could deliver similar (or better) performance based on their room loading behavior.  There are many other things that could lead them to recommend a cheaper speaker in a particular case.  They are straight shooters, those Zu guys.

[macrojack]

Uh Oh!!  Did I make trouble?

Mike is right. The Presence were recommended as a better choice for me. I don't think your resale value will plummet because the Presence will create more credibility for Zu and probably more name recognition.
The only real obstacle I felt in selling my Def Pros was the lack of awareness among audiophiles as to the merits of the speakers and where they rightfully fit in the great speaker hierarchy. Soon you'll be seeing more status lent to Zu ownership. The majority moves slowly but they'll catch up with you, Milhilli.

That brings us to George. How old are you? Do you remember back in the late 60s when Toyota introduced the Corolla? Not many people would have recognized the Toyota name them because they were buying Ramblers and DeSotos and Plymouths and Studebakers and Oldsmobiles and Packards and so on. If you stick around long enough you will see that happen to the speakers you named.

The first one now will later be last.........for the times they are-a-changin.


What's that?   Oh, gotta go....it's dinner time.

[jhm731]

Uh Oh!!  Did I make trouble?

Mike is right. The Presence were recommended as a better choice for me. I don't think your resale value will plummet because the Presence will create more credibility for Zu and probably more name recognition.
The only real obstacle I felt in selling my Def Pros was the lack of awareness among audiophiles as to the merits of the speakers and where they rightfully fit in the great speaker hierarchy. Soon you'll be seeing more status lent to Zu ownership. The majority moves slowly but they'll catch up with you, Milhilli.

That brings us to George. How old are you? Do you remember back in the late 60s when Toyota introduced the Corolla? Not many people would have recognized the Toyota name them because they were buying Ramblers and DeSotos and Plymouths and Studebakers and Oldsmobiles and Packards and so on. If you stick around long enough you will see that happen to the speakers you named.

The first one now will later be last.........for the times they are-a-changin.


What's that?   Oh, gotta go....it's dinner time.

Desotos & Packards were history long before Toyota introduced the Corolla in 1966, the same year the last
Studebaker was built.

We'll see if Sean & Adam can keep Zu in business longer than Talon Audio.

[NealH]

Zu is a great little entrepreneurial company in the best tradition of American entrepreneurial companies but, only the Druid and Tone can be seen as Toyotas in the sense that they might be real bargains.  However, I've read that getting the right "bass" response has been the achilles heel of the Druid.  This is likely resolved with the Presence but, at $6K it is simply not a Toyota bargain anymore.     

Having said that, I like what Zu is doing and wish them lots of success.  They are real down to earth and talented individuals who love what they do.

[mihilli]

It's happening already!!

Lucky you sold yours Macrojack.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?spkrfull&1187143759&auc&3&4&

[macrojack]

That guy put his speakers up for sale months ago when the Def 2 was announced. Apparently they didn't sell back then. He started this auction right after my audiogon ad expired. The guy who bought mine saw those and told me he was buyibg mine because he would rather have black. Also, there have been quite a few bids so I imagine there will be a runup near closing time.
Another thing for you to consider is that you have a real known speaker. The Def Pros were never advertised and some people actually think they are a prototype. Your 1.5's will hold up just fine. Are you thinking of selling them?

[Soundbytes]

Macrojack,

I'm interested in what music you listen to and what your experience has been related to ZU's offerings and others in the field.  Specifically what emotional strings are being pulled across the options that you have experienced, and which of these have you been fortunate enough to experience back to back?  Also do you have any expectations for your new arrivals?

Thanks in advance and enjoy! 

[mihilli]

Are you thinking of selling them?

No, not thinking of selling, I'm probably one of those people as per another topic who is pretty happy with where my gear is at.  (That said, my Modwright pre is being upgrade as we speak with the cap upgrade and tube rectification ).

I suppose it's really just a niggle, BUT status quo for the audio industry, here is the greatest, no THIS is the greatest, NO THIS IS THE GREATEST!!!!

I'm not really upset, I feel pretty good about the choices I've made , just venting.

But, speaking of selling...........anybody interested in a Prometheus Reference TVC?  A Butler 2250 power amp?  A pair of Signal Cable interconnects?  Musical Fidelity DAC and Tube Buffer? Zu Ibis speaker cables?aa

[sts9fan]

Highend audio is small.  Zu is bound to be in the middle of the pack at best. (in size)  They are already more the a niche player imho.  Small time obscure players have crappy websites and build out of their homes and small facilities.  Zu is much more then that.  A small time niche player never has the revenue to expand to the scale they are at now.  They will NEVER be as big as Wilson etc because of the technology they favor.  People don't want fullrange for $$$$.  They want four way mammoths.  I can undersand being a HUGE fan of Zu and their products but thinking they are going to be the next big thing in highend speakers is crazy.

[macrojack]

Sounbytes -

All kinds of music, every emotion, and never back to back.

Not much classical, and I never cry.

I expect my new speakers to be blue. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to figure out how to plug them in the wall since they have powered subs.

As for any other expectations, I can't really say. I've followed Sean's advice with surprising results in the past and have come to trust him. The Zu sound is very much to my liking and I don't have the ability to delineate the properties that make this true for me. I can't really say why I like sushi so much either.

And I don't think you would have gotten much in the way of reasons to like Toyota back in the 60s. I just have a sense that they have taken steps in a different and better direction. The old tried and true speaker brands continue to refine their products but do not move beyond the very real constraints inherent in those products. Zu has moved with the single driver trend and is providing gradual refinements to a concept that I feel has much greater upside in its development trajectory than the ole square box XO path has the ability to deliver. To put it another way, I think that crossover designs have given nearly 100% of what they have to give while the Zu approach is in its infancy and already better.

I do not believe that there is a question as to whether you will own Zu, only when. They are growing, growing, growing.........and it is plainly not because of an ultra successful Bose marketing program. People are finding them and liking what they are finding.

I have no proof to offer.

[miklorsmith]

They are growing, no doubt.  Their early popularity was primarily in Asian markets where they are a BIG player.  I'm not sure what the east/west balance is now but their American sales are good.

I don't see them becoming a Wilson-sized player.  What they do spectacularly well isn't V-8 American like ALL the other big-timers.  They're just SO much different - it's hard to see that paradigm shift.  Horning and Rhethm are following similar paths but they're not taking over the marketplace either.

And, that's OK with me.  I don't need the status of Wilson and I like what my system does.  The combination of strengths is extremely rare (strong at 20 hz, runs on SET, total coherence?)  I'm glad they're available and after 3 years of owning, I haven't heard anything better.  I'm proud they're built here in the USA and you couldn't do business with better folks.  The market has already shown acceptance.  How far that goes is anybody's guess but . . . are you listening fellas . . .

 

BEST OF LUCK WITH THE NEW SPEAKS!

[Toka]

I dunno...I think because Zu are so different from Wilson, etc. that it gives them an advantage. Not with the typical Wilson demographic, but with a different (dare I say...younger?) group that isn't already a career audiophile. They don't need room heaters to run, can come in any color you want, and look 'cool'. Heck, a few choice product placements in popular media and who knows what will happen.

[gbeard]

I just figured it out! Zu needs a reality TV show!!!! Kinda like OCC!

They can show the Zu crew building special orders and bitching at each other when things aren't going perfectly. There could be a segment where they give a pair of speakers to a deserving audiophile (like me). Oh! Oh! And about this: a segment where they beat up on a lousy audio writer (like me). Then the show can follow them as they unveil their newest creations at audio shows around the world. It would be a showcase for the whole industry!

Why haven't I thought of this before!  Heck, its a no-brainer!!    Get Simon on the phone! 


  Okay, I hope everyone here knows I am just kidding! (Well, not about giving me the speakers! A pair for a PFO article is in the works... )

[Soundbytes]

The Zu boys have been know to throw their knees over the seat of a bike so get OCC to build a ZU chopper and unveil that at CES...     

Macrojack... Let me say that your choice of blue is an excellent one. 

Actually I own a pair (or two or three) of the ZU products and a few others.  Given the number of posts that you put out expressing your unabashed belief in their products I was attempting to give you a lead in as to why you love them so much other than its a different approach, and they are full rangers, and no XO...   aa

For me (with the Definitions) its the coupling across the frequency range with a darn full bottom end, the tone, and the dynamics.  Yet for what has been termed as "audiophile tricks" such as soundstage and imaging the Definitions don't touch the Alerions mentioned earlier which are some of the best I've heard in these areas.  At least they don't touch them in my environment.

The Definitions tug at a variety of my senses in a very tactile and raw form while retaining a subtle nature.   Where the Alerions are very satisfying with the excellent image, soundstage, and tone yet for me provide this mostly through the sense of hearing and therefore are a more intellectual experience.  I haven't tried the minimethod with them yet to see the result.

I'm very curious to hear Srajan's review, along anyone else's, of the new speakers as I'm curious if ZU is now addressing some of the 'tricks' that also enhance the experience.  If so I want to hear them!  For what it is worth Paul's Ronin's provide me a more rounded experience overall in my environment but requires a bit more juice.  They sing with Vinnie's Sig 30 or my 300B.

I've not seen it mentioned before but Bruce Rosenblatt's Transcendent SE-OTL is an excellent match wih the Zus (oh and the Alerions which also like the F3), and is a wonderful bargin if you build it.  This compared to a few of the other often mentioned amps which are also great matches, I just think the SE-OT provides a better experience for me.

Different, not better or worse, all quite enjoyable.  Fun, eh? 

[macrojack]

Soundbytes - Sorry I missed my cue.

I don't get out much to hear anything new. I live in a remote outpost from an audiophile standpoint and never go to audio stores because we really don't have any. That said, I became pretty jaded with the same old stuff long ago and had actually retreated to vintage speakers when Zu crossed my path. It started with a friend in Minneapolis mentioning the Def Pros to me in a phone conversation. He had read about them on 6 moons and steered me toward reading up. I got interested, called the factory, called Srajan, and got in my car for the 300 mile drive up to Ogden to hear them in person. I was very impressed with the facility, the personnel, the owners and the products. Nonetheless, I was too cowardly to spring for the Defs right out of the gate, so I bought a pair of Druids that day and had them shipped to me.

After finding that I loved their up front, I'm your new friend, honest and engaging personality, I promptly traded my Goldmunds to the granite fabricator who was doing our kitchen counters for granite countertops in both bathrooms. For music, the Druids did quite nicely but because my system doubles as a two channel home theatre, I added a Mini-Method sub for movie sound effects.

Eventually, because I'm a foolish audiophile who rationalized that two boxes would be better than three and eight 10 inch subs would be better than two, and stereo bass would be better than a single sub (according to Srajan), I sold my three piece set up to Barbecue Bob, the retired bluesman who used to be my next door neighbor and bought dem Def Pros.

Now I have rationalized that Sean is giving me good advice and I like the option of not externally bi-amping. Also have regretted not buying  the color option on my initial purchase. Might change my mind after living with the new ones. If that happens, I'll put them up on AC first. I'm sure, by then, I'll be in the mood for another beating.

I realized an upgrade in resolution moving from the Druid to the Def and, of course, the bass was much better. Currently I wonder if I can be getting everything I just gave up when the Presence arrives. Sean says I will. He says this new speaker is going to set a new standard. He might be right. A world class, high-efficiency full range speaker in high gloss automotive paint finish for $6K/pair is certainly worth investigating. You can sell off your speakers and your big amps and preamp and buy something like a Sig 30 or a Leben CS 300X or a Melody I2A3 and be stylin with the best sound available at under $10K all in. Keep the sources you already have.

I make it sound easy, don't I? That's because I think it is. When I know this for sure around the end of September, I'll make some noise about it. I'm sure you will be hearing from Srajan before then.

[gsm18439]

I upgraded from Definition 1.5s to Def 2s; they arrived three days ago. What was immediately obvious is that the Def 2s were much more of a nearfield speaker than the Def 1.5s with a wider sweet spot and better off axis listening.

[macrojack]

This is news. You have the floor.