[bushbison]

Wow .. great topic!  Actually, being from a remote area, I communicate much more with dealers and manufacturers via email and by phone than by walk-ins. And when it comes to cold-calling (or emailing) companies, the jury is out; I've had MAJOR company execs call me back personally with answers to inquiries, and have  coffee with me on the phone just chatting, to smaller companies and dealers NOT returning messages, when I've had $ (or Credit card) in hand!
 
However, travelling to large centers and "tire-kicking" as it were, has been much less successful, in the customer service department, than the former methods.  I'm a fairly laid-back guy and look younger than my age; when I walk into a new store, I either get the "hey-there, hi-there, wanna buy a mono-rail??" type thing or am TOTALLY ignored; even worse than that is when I know more about a product than the sales people ... kind of embarrassing, for them; I wouldn't want their job however!

Through Audiocircle I've by-and-large had great interactions with almost all of the industry people; in fact they've been better than some of the members who were selling gear!  Goes to show you how the possibility of $ being entered into the equation changes us ..... maybe I'm no different.

Some of the smaller companies such as most on Audiocircle, plus Newform Research and Mark & Daniel have been VERY wonderful; with the REAL biggies, especially on the electronics side, it is difficult to find out WHO to even talk to!!!

A customer service example, when I was purchasing a car a couple of years ago:
I walk in to an Acura dealership, with all my information processed and at the ready; when I enquired about any "deals" on financing, the first salesperson literally scoffed and said, "hey if you want deals on financing, go over there (nodding to the Chrysler Dealership next door); we don't HAVE to have and deals; we are the only Acura dealership from x to x (quite a distance)", and WALKED AWAY!!  Nice.
Like a dumb-ass I waited around until another dud came up to me; kind of a young slick guy who was a bit swarmy, but hey; these guys gotta make a living.  So I ask him a couple of questions about a new model that had changed from the previous year; he looked a bit uncomfortable, slickness decreased, and he said, "Listen, this is my first week on the job, so I have to apologize"; then he looks up at my smirk on my face (I'm saying nothing at this point), and uncomfortably asks "Do I know you or have we met before?" And I said "yeah"; ........................he said, "where?" I said "here"; and he says  .....not having a CLUE ....."when?  .................."LAST YEAR when you tried to sell me a car ..... HERE" ..... being  a sales manager, you think he would have known better!!!! So needless to say, I kept my dignity, and my girlfriend and I walked ...... and bought Honda by the way!!!  TRUE story!!

[Audiovista]

A customer service example, when I was purchasing a car a couple of years ago:
I walk in to an Acura dealership, with all my information processed and at the ready; when I enquired about any "deals" on financing, the first salesperson literally scoffed and said, "hey if you want deals on financing, go over there (nodding to the Chrysler Dealership next door); we don't HAVE to have and deals; we are the only Acura dealership from x to x (quite a distance)", and WALKED AWAY!!  Nice.
Like a dumb-ass I waited around until another dud came up to me; kind of a young slick guy who was a bit swarmy, but hey; these guys gotta make a living.  So I ask him a couple of questions about a new model that had changed from the previous year; he looked a bit uncomfortable, slickness decreased, and he said, "Listen, this is my first week on the job, so I have to apologize"; then he looks up at my smirk on my face (I'm saying nothing at this point), and uncomfortably asks "Do I know you or have we met before?" And I said "yeah"; ........................he said, "where?" I said "here"; and he says  .....not having a CLUE ....."when?  .................."LAST YEAR when you tried to sell me a car ..... HERE" ..... being  a sales manager, you think he would have known better!!!! So needless to say, I kept my dignity, and my girlfriend and I walked ...... and bought Honda by the way!!!  TRUE story!!

  PRICELESS!!!!

Thanks for sharing! My brother in law had a similar experience with Acura dealer on Long Island (doing to good to make deals), but he bought it anyway.....

[Bill Baker]

Hey, I have one of those car dealership stories as well. I'll keep it short as possible.

 About 3 months back, I walked into a GM dealership to buy two new(er) vehichles. One for myself and one for my wife. We were going to buy one that day and come back next week for another. I also told the first salesman that I bought a car here 6 years ago and the salesman was a true salesman and became very pushy. I told this gut if he headed down that path, we would walk. He apologized for our past experience and said he was not like that.

 After about 2 hours of trying to get paperwork filled out, he told us there was NO WAY, we were serious about actually buying two vehicles and thought we were only using that to get a better deal on the one we were trying to buy that day. He cam back to me and say there was no way we could get the interest rates we wanted after promising us time and time again that he would get us the "best deal around".

So, 5 hours later (no my wife and I are tired and we also had the kids with us), I finally told him I was done and going home. He told me to hold on ten more minutes and he would send someone else over to help us out so he could finish the deal on a new Porsche sitting in the showroom. Sorry but that pissed me off. The funniest thing about it is that he send over a younger guy that told me the same story "I have only been here for 3 weeks so you have to work me while I figure things out". I looked right at him and told him this was the same thing you guys tried to pull n us 6 years ago when we bought the first car and YOU are the same person they used back then as well, I'm out of here, have a nice night.

 For the next three days, they kept calling me to tell me the have worked out a great deal not kowing that I went to a dealer down the road from my house and bought 2 vehicles without any hassle. I was in and out of this transaction within 2.5 hours. Once I told the first dealership this, they stopped calling.

[Audiovista]

All right, way to go - good that you let them know that you actually bough the cars. 

That's why I try to seal the deal before actually going into a dealership (Internet or phone with somebody from Internet department - they are eager to justify their existence and I assume there is some internal competition). I'm not good in negotiating but there are two things that work to my advantage: (1) I live in NYC/Queens so there are plenty of hungry dealers and (2) I never dead-lock on a make/model which makes it easier to walk away (or hang up the phone).

But, I'm digressing, sorry, it is just a very fun topic.....

[PhilNYC]

Interesting to hear these car dealership stories...I've never had any bad experiences buying cars; have owned a couple of Hondas, an Acura, and a Nissan over the last 20 years.  Sales and service always seemed excellent....

[mcgsxr]

I have had my fair share of fun with car salespeople, over the past 20 years of driving etc.

Most recently, bought a new minivan for my wife (Hyundai Entourage if you are interested) and went to several places while doing final research etc.  I have gotten to the point where I now take this approach, and stick to it.  I tell the salesperson that I have been in sales (and it is true) for more than 12 years, and I hope to make it simple for them.  No BS, tell them exactly where I am in the buying process, and let them have a crack at it.

Some try tricks, and I simply smile, and walk.  No continued speaking to them, no 2nd chances, no answering phone calls thereafter.  You have 1 chance to win my business, and I will sign today.

I visited a local Kia dealer (as the Hyundai and Kia are very similar  - OK exactly the same, but with differing trim packages, based on nameplate - think Chrysler and Dodge in the old days, and you are there).  Jackass followed me out to my Accord, after I walked during his "pitch".

Went to the local Hyundai dealer, and told them what it would take to do business today, had done the research, wanted the van, needed X off, willing to sign etc.  More games, I walked again.

CALLED a dealer 40 miles away, and did a deal over the phone for $1 more than I wanted to pay.  When local dealer called 2 days later, I simply explained what happened.

Tough business those guys are in, and the training is brutal (ever see King of Cars?) so I feel for them, but when a prospect walks in and lines up what it will take, and you know that you can, YOU DO.  Rule #1 in sales - stay out of the way of a guy who is BUYING.

Rant off!

[Daygloworange]

I would never let any dealer have me sit there for 2-5 hours. I think everybody has a good idea what they have in mind as to what they are willing to pay for the vehicle they are interested in. If I felt it was taking too long, I would politely tell the salesperson that I had other things that I needed to tend to, and give him my final offer, leave my number, and walk.

Almost everybody I know who has walked out of a dealership not having purchased a vehicle, has been called back by the saleperson, sometimes to the point of being harrassed.

If you live in a big city, I see no need to put up with any B.S., or an idioit salesperson when there is probably another dealer for the same manufacturer no more than 20 min. away.

Cheers

[eric the red]

Well if we're going to digress here...When I bought my Nissan truck 3 years ago, I started out looking for an Xterra at our local dealership. I test drove and made an offer on one, they took me into the windowless room with the sweaty office manager etc ( I remember thinking "this is just like in the movies!") then when I walked out on their pitch, the sales manager and the salesman ended up chasing me out in the parking lot as I was driving away screaming "We found the car you've been looking for!" and the salesman called me many many times the next week, even after I had told him I was never coming back. I ended buying my truck from another dealership 60 miles away and had a great experience and ended up with a nicer vehicle for $400.00 over dealer invoice. That WOULD be a tough way to make a living.

[In The Groove]

Hesaid fine but there was a $1500 retaining fee for new customers.

  That's insane.  I would be very wary of this store. 

[2bigears]

  1500 for a test drive?? hummmm ,just bought a set off the Gon for an extra five hun for a second system.now that's a deal???? sure hope they sound ok.

[PhilNYC]

One thing that has me really curious is to know whether or not they've actually ever had a customer pay that $1500...

[toobluvr]

OTL,

Andy Singer graced our friendly little forum several times in the past....all quite incoherently 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=2053;sa=showPosts

What an arrogant / snobby / half-cocked piece-of-work work, this guy is 

Excuse my french, but Andy Singer is a real arrogant piece of shit!
When I lived in the city, I visited his shop on occasion.  He will never get a nickel of my money.

Nor will Stereo Exchange.....another prime example of how not to treat customers.  I actually got into a heated screaming match with one of their pushy and arrogant sales-people.  It was so bad and caused such an obvious ruckus in the store that the owner actually called me at home to apologize, but the damage was already done.

And I think I know of the place that Topround originally mentioned.  Upper east side....forget exact location.  1995, when I was an audiophile neophyte, the creepy crusty old guy with bad breath and dandruff tried to charge me to listen to some speakers.  Plus, he was real set in his opinions, knew everything about audio, and of course he had all the right answers and would tell you what to buy.  I was soooo put off I contacted the speaker manufacturer and informed them of how he was representing their product.   Needless to say, they were appalled.

For such a big wonderful city, NY is really lacking in audio shops that treat the customer with respect.  There is not a single one that I like......with In Living Stereo being the possible exception.  Not that they are all warm and fuzzy, but at least I encountered neither attitude, arrogance nor confrontation.

[Bill Baker]

I'd be interested to know from an auto industry insider if the 2-5 hour deal is a tactic. It seems to me, having purchased several cars, that a deal can go quickly...in less than an hour if the dealership is inclined to do so. The multiple-hour deal seems to me to be a tactic to wear down the customer until he says "Uncle" on a price that suits the dealer.

 See below.

Almost everybody I know who has walked out of a dealership not having purchased a vehicle, has been called back by the saleperson, sometimes to the point of being harrassed.

 This seems to always be the case whenever I try to purchase a vehicle from a larger dealer. During one of the phone calls, the salesman told me, in a very rude way "You have to buy this car, you won't get a better deal anywhere else". What is that all about? That's when I told him I purchased the two vehicles from another dealer. I bet he felt like a big BUTT. In fact, it wasn't the price of the vehicles that was the problem, it was the interest rate on one of them (I was paying cash for the other). It appears these dealers get a decent kick-back from the loan companies so they were trying to stick me with a lender that had higher rates so they would get more $$ out of it. Boy was I pissed when I heard this .

 They told me the lender would not give me the interest rate I was expecting. When I financed one of the vehicles I purchased from the OTHER deler, they went through the SAME lender and I got the interest rates I was expecting all along. Go figure.

[James Romeyn]

...Now, all that said, I think that we make audio purchases too hard with our obsessive concerns for optimization. With the knowledge we have, it is really quite easy to assemble a terrific system at any price point, even if that means relying solely on yard sales and pawn shops. Good enough is good enough and getting there is most of the fun.

I have often seen comments from befuddled audiophiles about how musicians don't seem to care about getting good sound from their personal sound systems. That has always amazed me too. I have come to believe, however, that they are enjoying the music without dismantling the presentation. If it really is "all about the music", why not just let it play and not worry so much about any subtle aspect that we may be missing. We're so focused on the trees that we are forgetting the forest. Or "penny wise and pound foolish".

Above is one of the most poignant & well written posts I've read in a looong time.  Good job!

Relative to some earlier points, John Marks, my all time favorite professional audiophile journalist, wrote an insightful & righteous column advising that it is wrong to abuse a dealer's time & other facilities.  I am guilty of having done this in the past, but since then I make a point to spend money when I use bricks & mortar stores.  Last time I got a helmet I was happy to spend about $50 more vs. mail order, especially because they had my size, the equivalent of about two large helmets put together.

Like my ex-co-worker used to say about me (one Philipino to another): big hands...big feet...two outa three ain't bad!

[James Romeyn]

When I'm listening to a good song on the factory stereo in my truck or at my friend's house who is a vinyl/music junkie with 2000+ LPs and Radio Shack reciever, ancient Dual TT and a pair of Celestion speakers I sold him for $125.00, it's not about what I'm not hearing but about what I AM hearing. Are we deconstructing music somehow to feed this wierd addiction called audiophilia?

Sometimes, yes.  But the fact is I can be sitting here in my office next door to the soundroom listening to music...good music can provide more pleasurable effects than listening in the sweet spot of a lesser system.  Though who knows?  Maybe the pleasurable effects could be related to both the system quality & a mental point of view or sate of mind while listening.  Certainly I've noticed that a wandering mental state of daydreaming is a world-class indicator I'm listening to either crummy music or a crummy system/room.  A good system playing good music, even it's a crummy recording, will still arouse interest.
     

[SET Man]

Hey!

    This reminded me about couple of years ago I went to a small dealer in upper East side NYC. I knock or rang the bell or something like that and a guy came out I ask if the store it open and he say yes. I asked if I could go in and check out but he refused and told me that he will charge $20 just for me to walk around in side. Man! and I thought that was crazy! I forgot the store name but I never went back there again. I will see if I could find the name of this store for you guys.

   Anyway, I haven't read all the posts here. But I did came across Devore's post that he took action on these of which I think it was a good move.

  This kind of people sicken me instead of trying to give hi-end audio more exposure to people. But what they do is really going to put off people from getting in to hi-end audio in general, especially those new comers.

  So, what is the name of this store that want to charge $1500 just to listen to the speaker? I want to know, seriously 

Take care,
Buddy

[topround]

Buddy,
I will tell you when I see you today

mike

[Doublej]

If the dealer list is current it's one of three? dealers.

http://www.devorefidelity.com/dealers.html

[macrojack]

The list shows only 2 dealers in NYC. Where's the other possibility?

[Plink]

Relative to some earlier points, John Marks, my all time favorite professional audiophile journalist, wrote an insightful & righteous column advising that it is wrong to abuse a dealer's time & other facilities. 

I've been in dealers shops here for longer than an hour.  Dealer sitting there twiddling his thumbs...not a soul has come in the place...and I get the whole story about how I'm not there to waste his time and buy on the internet am I?   If they what a relationship based on silly accusations, it's a no go.  I'll just buy on the internet.  That argument is tired.  One can buy everything on the internet these days but you don't see other shops whining about it.  Enjoy the rent!