[Levi]

I just read the review on the D3 and I like it already.  It is also cheaper than I thought it was.  $5,000...like my D2Xs so count me in

[nathanm]

Boy, this is really a long time coming.  Ever since I first heard of digital SLRs I was waiting for the day when they didn't have reduced-size sensors, otherwise I wasn't gonna buy one.  Now there's a few cameras with full-frame sensors, but they're still too rich for my blood.  Making these sensor things bigger must be one helluva challenge.  I guess this also means there isn't gonna be any single-shot, full-frame 4x5 digital backs for a looooong time! Heh!  It is amazing what detail they do capture in such a tiny area, though.

[brj]

Well, you could contact the US Naval Observatory and see if they'll let you borrow one of their 4x4 inch, 111 million pixel sensors!

Of course, I suspect that they aren't readily available, so you may have to settle for the Hasselblad H3D.  48mm, full frame, 39 megapixel... $25,000+

[nathanm]

4x4 not bad...I'll check eBay, maybe someone's got a used one for cheap!

[lazydays]

actually I think the real home run in a 10 meg DSLR is with the Pentax. You can use the common film camera lenses with it, with out a
penalty like you do with a Nikon or fuji.

The D40 and D40x are the only cameras in Nikon's current DSLR line that can't drive older AF lenses.  Once you step up to the D80 (also 10MP) and above, you can drive almost anything.  I routinely use my old film lenses (Tamron, Sigma and Nikon, both AF and manual) on a D80.

If you buy a Nikon, forget their lenses. They just ain't what they used to be. Lots of plastic inside of them anymore. I use almost nothing but Sigmas and Tokinas due to their quality.

For reference, specifically which Nikon lenses did you find inferior to which Sigma and Tokina lenses?

Personally, I don't mind high quality plastic for lens barrels, as it is lightweight and seems better at withstanding impact (mental dents, plastic rebounds).  Plastic for the lens elements is another issue, although I haven't heard any such details regarding Nikon lenses.  I know they specifically mention glass for the ED elements, but I haven't seen details for the other elements.

And while on the subject of lenses, rumor has it that the Schnider lenses will be standard OEM equipment on the Pentax camers in the near future. These lenses are about as good as it gets in a digital camera.

Are those lenses actually manufactured by Schneider, or just designed by them?  I've read that some point-n-shoot cameras advertise Zeiss glass, for example, but it isn't actually manufactured by Zeiss or subject to their quality control.  Penetrating all of the marketing language can be exhausting at times...

sorry for being late at responding to your post, but for some reason the circles is operating so slow that my PC times out. So if it's slow I will usually not stay on here very long.

* refering to the Nikon lense line up: I find if it's a Japanese built Nikon lense the picture quality is good to better. But most autofocus lenses made with Nikon's name on the are sourced to Malaysia or China. Some are OK and some are junk. I've had fair results from a 300mm zoom, cannot say that for the others. The Tokinas are the class of the field, but I get outstanding results from the Sigmas.

*Schneider leses are made by Schneider. The Lica glass used by Panasonics is made on license.
I use an S3 Fuji, and a couple other Fujis with good results, but find myself using my Samsung NV10 more than anything else.
Gary

[lazydays]

I see what you mean.  This is on 12mm, widest you can get on a digital w/o going fisheye.

not being critical, but what about the Tokina 10mm to 17mm zoom? I don't think it's considered a true fisheye. Have not been able to lay my hands on one to see.
gary

[lazydays]

Go Canon!!  You can get adapters to use so many different lenses - including Nikon.  I'm running contax, zeiss, pentax and nikon lenses on my 30D - so many cheap and great lenses out there!  That aspect alone is a *very* cool bonus.

When Canon went to the EOS mount (from the FD mount) they made the bayonet diameter much larger and moved the mount closer to the film plane.   This has very significant advantages:

- Allows for faster lenses.  The larger mount simply is a bigger hole for the lens designers to work with.  This is why Canon is the leader in sport/news/journalism photography by a vast margin.

- Less compromises with wide angle lens design.  Since the mount is closer, the rear element of the lens can be closer to the film plane.  This simplifies wide angle lenses significantly, thus improves quality.   Since the rear element can now be closer to the film plane, and therefore the point of ray conversion, less optical trickery is involved.  This is why rangefinder cameras typically have the best, and smallest, wide lenses - there's no SLR mirror in the way - allowing the rear element to get really close to the film. With the EOS mount, you're closer.  This is also why you can use a wide variety of other lenses on your Canon - nobody gets their lenses as close - so the adapters have a few MM's to exist.

The EOS mount is unarguably superior.

Another advantage of EOS is the USM focusing - ALL lenses have the motor in the lens - and all USM motors have the motor build directly right onto the lens element harness.  Fast near instant silent focusing!  Nikon has the auto focus motor in the camera body, which connects to the lens barrel through a series of linkages. Not ideal.

Canon's also have vastly superior interface design, IMHO

Pro for Nikon?  Nice flashes - a very elegant and advanced system.   Canon flashes are good, but Nikon wins hands down.  This doesn't compensate even slightly for the above points, however.

Regardless, either way you go, it's more the user than the gear.  Both SLR's are delightful pieces of equipment.

Cheers
/A

you also get the weakest power supply for a flash of any digital camera out there, and you will sooner or later get the infamous "error 99" for free. And Cannon wont fix it cause they can't.
gary

[lazydays]

D200 uses CCD , D2H uses LBcast while D2X uses cmos sensor much like the D3.  Go figure.

The difference is the D200 and D2x sensors are made by sony, the new D3 sensor are an original Nikon design built by an undisclosed and apparently super-secret 3rd party.

all sensors are built by one of three companys. Kodak, Sony, and Fuji. The Fuji sensors are only used in Fujis, but the other two make them for everybody. I read that on the Shutterbig board several months ago, and actually wondered if the same statement aplys to the medium format digital cameras hitting the market. Right now I can see a Pentax medium format digital fitting in my hands.
gary

[AdamM]

and you will sooner or later get the infamous "error 99" for free. And Cannon wont fix it cause they can't.

That's a bit of an exaggeration of a very rare problem    

Nikon does have better flashes, for sure, but If you're serious about flash, you'll use a Metz (even if you're a Nikon guy...)

Let's see what the pros use, and we can make it a game called:  Find the Nikon



Truth is, they're both great systems.  There's no blaming the gear for any bad photos.  aa

/A

[Levi]

I guess I was referring to Nikon digital lens.  Correct me if I'm wrong, 12-24mm is the widest Nikon dx lens you can buy without fisheye. 

I see what you mean.  This is on 12mm, widest you can get on a digital w/o going fisheye.

not being critical, but what about the Tokina 10mm to 17mm zoom? I don't think it's considered a true fisheye. Have not been able to lay my hands on one to see.
gary

[AdamM]

I guess I was referring to Nikon digital lens.  Correct me if I'm wrong, 12-24mm is the widest Nikon dx lens you can buy without fisheye.

Yup, that's right.  That's the limit on a DX (currently)

Depending on your sensor size, you might technically be able to squeak a bit more out.  15mm is about as wide as you can go rectilinear (non fisheye) on a full frame sensor, while 10mm is the limit on a 1.6x crop.

If you're crazy about it, you can shoot a wider fisheye (Nikon and Peleng make an 8mm!) and 'de-fish' it with software.   The results are somewhat strange, but you can for the most part, straighten the lines out with the de-fisheye software: http://www.all-in-one.ee/~dersch/



Cheers,
/A

[lazydays]

and you will sooner or later get the infamous "error 99" for free. And Cannon wont fix it cause they can't.

That's a bit of an exaggeration of a very rare problem    

Nikon does have better flashes, for sure, but If you're serious about flash, you'll use a Metz (even if you're a Nikon guy...)

Let's see what the pros use, and we can make it a game called:  Find the Nikon



Truth is, they're both great systems.  There's no blaming the gear for any bad photos.  aa

/A

the error 99 condition is not all that uncommon. I've personally seen three cameras go back to Canon with it, and the guys on Shutterbug have disscussed and cussed it several times.
     The problem with most digital cameras is that the powersupply is kinda on the weak side, and when you use a flash with a strong trigger voltage it takes it's toll. Even digital flashes can be hard on them. That's one of the reasons I went with an S3 Pro Fuji. It'll handle over four times the voltage that a Canon or a Nikon will. That plus the Nikon lense mount sold me. Down the road I may opt for an S5 body (nothing more than a Nikon DX with a Fuji sensor). The one problem with the Fuji is that it's a little slow, but the later ones have a much bigger buffer in them as well as a faster flash cycle. The S5 is even better and pretty much on the same level with the $5K Nikon. Just wish they'd make whole thing out of titanium as they are heavy.
gary

[mcullinan]

I am here to say Canon DSLRs rule!
Nikon blows~
Nani nana
Mike

[Levi]

That's pretty funny Mike.

I am here to say Canon DSLRs rule!
Nikon blows~
Nani nana
Mike

[Vapor Audio]

I guess I was referring to Nikon digital lens.  Correct me if I'm wrong, 12-24mm is the widest Nikon dx lens you can buy without fisheye.

Yup, that's right.  That's the limit on a DX (currently)

There's also the Sigma 10-20mm that comes in all mounts.  I've owned it and it's a fine lens on my Nikon bodies.

[Vapor Audio]

the error 99 condition is not all that uncommon. I've personally seen three cameras go back to Canon with it, and the guys on Shutterbug have disscussed and cussed it several times.

That's why I dumped my 20D a couple years back ... I went through 3 of them, each one made it about 2-3000 shots before dying on me.  Now I have so much Nikon stuff there's no point of thinking about going back, not to mention how much more intuitive the Nikon interface is.

You guys do realize you can't say everybody with white lenses is shooting Canon - Nikon also makes all their tele's in white, I used to have a white 300mm f/2.8 AF-I.

[nathanm]

It's true that you can't blame the gear for bad shots, and an even better hedge against bad photos looks to be cramming two dozen plus photographers with identical cameras and lenses into the same area!  Geez, somebody's bound to take a good shot with that tactic!  It's like photographic carpet bombing!

[lazydays]

I guess I was referring to Nikon digital lens.  Correct me if I'm wrong, 12-24mm is the widest Nikon dx lens you can buy without fisheye.

Yup, that's right.  That's the limit on a DX (currently)

There's also the Sigma 10-20mm that comes in all mounts.  I've owned it and it's a fine lens on my Nikon bodies.

I own the Sigma 12-24 EX, and it's a fine lense. I've also had the chance to use the same thing from Tokina. The Tokina is a better lense in extreme conditions, plus it seems to be built a little better. The Tamron cannot compete with these two lenses.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Sigma lenses for the average Joe. Would like to shoot a couple hundred pictures with that 10 - 17mm Tokina though, but expect to buy the 80 - 400mm Tokina sometime this winter as I can make much better use of it right now.
gary

[brj]

It's like photographic carpet bombing!

   That line was brilliant, Nathan... I'm still laughing! 

[Levi]

It has been 6+months since the inception of the Nikon D3.  Full-frame D700 is also in the horizon.

I am now contemplating about going FX (almost full-frame) Nikon.  Has anyone here upgraded to D3 yet?