[WEEZ]

goober, you are right! If a company would make a cartridge with the Grado sound and the AT trackability; they would sell..and I'd be first in line to buy one

As for Wayner's comment about 'plug-and-play', I also agree...with maybe one exception: a Rega cartridge on a Rega arm/table. The 3-point mounting is just about foolproof. Yeah, it may not sound as rich and involving as many other combo's; and the output is really high..like around 7mv..but for someone who likes to play lp's and not fiddle too much, an all Rega set-up would get my recommendation for as close to plug-and-play as it gets.

I use a SOTA table; and their 'Reflex clamp' is commonly recognized as one of the best...but IMHO, if you've "longhorned' your Grado, the clamp is rarely necessary.

As for plaf26's original question (and the reason for this thread )...IMHO, the work it takes to get good sound out of a Grado is worth the effort. And if the 'table itself is well isolated and stable; and you've got a compatible arm; you can buy sound that is 'different'- but not better than a Grado. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it

WEEZ

[plaf26]

Well, I’ve had the AT 440 MLa for a week now.  First impressions confirmed David A. Rich’s review ($ensible Sound, #112, p. 38f.) that it is bright and “a little on the hot side of neutral.”  But it has given me a new respect for the old Columbia label.  Their mono pressings from the 50’s used to sound like they were recorded with one of those old springs-in-a-box type reverb units in the signal path.  Does anybody know when Columbia switched from LP to RIAA EQ?  Anyway, now those platters are taking my breath away. 

Which brings me to “Levant Plays Gershwin” (Columbia CL700).  This contains recordings done in the mid 40’s and re-released somewhere in the early to mid 50’s.  You can tell that the sonics are dated, but now I hear music in those grooves I haven’t heard in 50 years of listening to the thing and without so much coloration.  By comparison, the CD version (CBS Records MK 42514) sounds dull and muddy.

Point of information:  I asked the guy at Needle Doctor for a headshell that fits my KAB modded Technics SL1200 MK5 to go with the 440.  I know, I know, direct drive is verboten, but this one is different aa.  Anyway, he recommended the Sumiko HS12 as more rigid than the Technics or the Stanton which both fit the 1200 arm.  When I got it home I noticed that the Sumiko allows azimuth adjustment.  It also has two locator pins that fit the arm top and bottom but not the overhang gauge (top only) that comes with the TT.  A pair of pliers and a good twisting pull fixed that.  The combination of cartridge and shell is also heavier, necessitating screwing in the extra little counterweight that comes with the arm.

Am considering Longhorn treatment (though I’m not handy in that dept.).  But because the stylus assembly comes high up in the front, the clearance may be tight and the center of gravity will be higher than I’d like.  The stylus guard is removable (and replaceable if you don’t lose it).

Meanwhile the T8’s phono section continues to amaze.  If you’ve got vinyl (or shellac, for that matter), get one!  You’re records will sing, even if you play them on a Victrola with a rusty nail.

[WEEZ]

glad the MLa is working to your satisfaction

WEEZ

[Toka]

plaf,

What is the capacitance load on your AT cart? Stock '1200 interconnects? Too much would peak up the high end quite a bit.

[TheChairGuy]

I think the AT440 is 490mh inductance.....so a peak in the audio band is almost assured - especially if there is intermediate phono stage that requires capacitive leads in and out of device.

I was told recently from a knowledgeable fellow that there is one KEY design difference in cartridges - a "tie-wire" at the rear of the cantilever, and the suspension is ENTIRELY different (being an abutment, instead of a "doughnut/fulcrum").
     
It seems to me that this "tie-wire" is a point of contention among the more-technical aficionados.

Most of the Japanese makers, current and present,  of cartridges use(d) some kind of tie-wire...which tends to pull the sound towards 'bright' sound.  The doughnut/fulcrum approach tends to make the cartridge sound neutral or warm-ish.

Audio-Technica is a Japanese company and probably employs this tie-wire method. So, a cartridge from them will always sound 'brighter' than, say, from Shure, Grado, Stanton here in the U.S.

Ultimately, if it approximates music to you, then it's good 

[Toka]

It can be hard, but a smooth response curve is possible which just about any MM cart...seems that between 100-150pF (total) for the 440Mla would be ideal. Much more than that and there is a fairly hefty (+5dB) spike at the higher end of the spectrum. I have a spreadsheet/graph that lets you plug in different values/see the results...very eye-opening. 

That tie-wire thing is very interesting though...makes me go hmmm. 

[TheChairGuy]

Online cartridge loading calculator available, too:

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

(sorry Frank - something of a competitor I know - but a good service to vinyl-philes anyway.  No promotion of their products intended with this.)

[Toka]

I used that before I got this spreadsheet (from a nice guy on AA...yes they do exist!  ). It allows for the input of coil resistance (as well as loading resistance), which can really change things. Plus what that shows for a 'peak' is sometimes a roll-off...it just depends. Very interesting stuff for a slow day at the office. 

[WEEZ]

...another reason Grado's are my favorite...lower inductance..capacitance is less of a factor....

 

Yeah, and 47k isn't always the best load for a MM either.....

(sorry, plaf26....I can't help myself, sometimes )

Toka,

I'd be interested in seeing that spreadsheet...

WEEZ

[Wayner]

I'm pretty sure Frank had a comment about fartin' around with loading on MM cartridges and I recall it being something like "leave it alone". With my current set-ups, I don't detect a high frequency spike, in fact cymbals, acoustic guitar strings and higher order harmonics have never been sweeter. I'm not ready to start fiddling with this stuff, yet.......maybe on a rainy day.

 

[Toka]

WEEZ (and anyone else for that matter),

Shoot me a PM with your e-mail addy and I'll send it off to you (will have to wait until Monday, as they are on my work computer). I have both an MM and MC version, I'll send both unless otherwise requested.


Wayner,

Yea, that was me who brought it up.  I can see how just playing around with it willy-nilly is a bad idea, and honestly, most MM carts fall into the same general range that most people will likely have anyway. But some 'magic' IC's that people use are sooo high in capacitance it may harm the equipment, if not your ears. Using the spreadsheet it is easy to see that Grado's (and other low inductance designs, like HO MC's) don't like a 47k resistive load (HUGE spike in the ultrasonic range). While it won't likely be passed anywhere it could hurt, its interesting to see all the same. What got me interested is the cart I'm looking to pick up (AT-150MLX) has a recommended range of 100-200pF, however, anything much more than 100 will have a rising high end well in the audible band...I think this may account for the 'hot' tag the AT's have come to get. Others (the popular Shure's, Stanton's) have much, much higher inductance so that won't typically happen. The 150MLX is quite low for an MM (350mH).

[Wayner]

This morning while I was doing domestic chores I decided to put some Billy Idol on the HK with the Grado Gold Longhorn.........YIKES, is that a good cartridge! I guess I forgot how sweet it is. I surrender.

 

[WEEZ]

Toka,

pm sent, thanks

WEEZ

[TheChairGuy]

Holographic as hell, those Grado's    I often think other cartridges sound broken next to the $60 Green.  I sometimes think all this time spent with vinyl may not be worth it were it not for Grado cartridges - they really highlight the differences between vinyl and CD for pocket change.  All except the ADC XLM III pale in sonic width and depth in comparison.

Once you've vacuum cleaned your records and outfitted the Grado's with the Longhorn, they track better and you get the most amazingly natural treble you could ask for with lifelike, touch-able midrange and giant bass (tightened up with fluid damped tonearm). 

All with sufficient voltage output to be used in even the skin-flintiest (in regards to gain) phono stages.

[WEEZ]

Toka,

got the spreadsheet, thanks

now I've just got to read and digest it

WEEZ