[Lensman]

I am really enjoying the insightful comments in this thread.

Weez,  I'm not convinced it's a question of flaws in the system that need to be addressed.  It's about the listener.  It's about comparative listening, evaluating and judging, as opposed to connecting with the music.  It's about a system as a work in progress, a test bench instead of a listening room.  I woke up one day and realized my interest in electronics and the joy of experimenting with parts and circuits had ceased to serve my love of music, and had instead become a substitute for it.   

I need a vacation and maybe a good HDradio FM tuner.

Lensman
Owner of cheap components that have had their parts replaced

[Lensman]

To steal a saying from another expensive and addictive hobby; "The best camera is the one that you have with you."   

The best camera is the one I'm going to buy next.

[WEEZ]

Lensman, I think I understand.

WEEZ

[Phil]

This is going to sound strange:  Try listening like a woman.  OK, let me explain.  I've learned a lot about enjoying music and my system by learning how to listen from my wife.  The equipment doesn't mean a thing to her.   She is just a likely to listen to "her" little system (one piece Denon with small speakers connected by zip wire) as she is to listen to the "big rig."

A few years ago, when I was struggling to figure out what didn't sound right to me in the big rig, she would offer me simple advice like "turn down the volume."  Well, since the system had too much noise and grit in it, she was absolutely correct.  Or course, once I realized that I re-doubled my efforts to get out the noise (finally did - looong story).  Then I started to observe how she listened.  Not only at low volume, but also off-axis.  I was working from the assumption that everything should sound great from the sweet spot.  Again, this lead to understanding more about what influenced the sound and how to correct it. 

Through all of this tweaking, buying different equipment, she always enjoyed the music and ignored the equipment (and I'd say she easily has better ears than I do -- she can hear every change in an instant).  Finally, I have learned to absorb her attitude toward listening and it has increased my enjoyment of music.

So, perhaps you should try this experiment.  I have no knowledge of the long-term effects, however.  If you find youself shaving less, go back to your old habits.

Phil

[richidoo]

I have heard Lensmans system recently. It is awesome. It is his own design cabinets with Fostex drivers. They sound great. His amp is a completely gutted Cayin PP which has been transformed into an exquisite SET with virtually everything upgraded. Rob is no beginner, he is a serious experimenter and a true DIY hero! Listening to harmon muted trumpet, Ricky Lee Jones, was just awesome. It is very nurturing and would allow me many hours of inspired listening, but I'm not you. I think after all that fiddling and fine tuning, you have reached the maximum potential of your original concept, and now perhaps it is getting boring because you miss the chase. Or the chase is deadlocked without catching the fox. Only you can know. Getting back on track in the pursuit might stimulate you, but that might mean big changes which you are reluctant to make.

I was ruined after hearing SET for the first time over at your house, now I am struggling with high power PP amps with harsh rock guitar tubes that are driving me nuts! Before hearing your system I had no idea that I was damaging my brain with that distorting blare.

The hobby has two extremes with lots in the middle. One extreme is focus totally on music without regard to gear, like iPodders, boomboxin kids, Car radio singin babes, etc. They don't even know that there is a machine, it is just the music and any machine at all will do just fine. I was once like that when all I cared about was bebop (and girls) and listened at least 10 hours a day. The other extreme is the Athens Audio Society, where gear is at least important as the music with the belief that every shitty recording should evoke tears of joy everytime with the "right" equipment. Both ends of the hobby are fun, and moving around inside is fun and healthy. Getting out for some air is also a good idea once in a while. Your curiousity will lead you down the enjoyable path, even if it is away from audio. If you feel like ditching it, then Marbles' advice is the best of all!  Do it, you can always come back!!

Maybe you have reached the end of the rainbow for this system, and time to start again from scratch. Either with or without gear in the equation. You say you enjoy the portable most right now - Why? Is it giving better performance than the main system, or less work, less temptation to fiddle instead of listen? Figure out what is bugging you and eliminate it. If it is the whole damn thing, maybe you need a vacation from the whole scene to re-evaluate. There are a lot of hobbies, you already got several, so what's one more, or one less?

If you want a new audio project without spending any cash? Come over to my house and help me figure out some of this crazy stuff! I'm running blind and trying to make it work. I can sure use your expertise and humor! We can share some new music too, or just drink and eat or whatever.
Rich

[Rocket]

Hi Lensman,

I think many of us are experiencing the same issue that you currently face.  I've sunk so much money into this hobby it isn't funny.  I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination.

Currently i have 3 ss amplifiers all of which cost me approx $3000us at my home.  I only use one at a time.

I'm really trying not to purchase anymore equipment and just listen to the music from now on.

Regards

Rod

[Lensman]

Maybe you have reached the end of the rainbow for this system, and time to start again from scratch. Either with or without gear in the equation. You say you enjoy the portable most right now - Why?

Richidoo, I think you've captured the essence there.  What does a new paradigm cost on eBay? 
When I listen to the Trekstor MP3 player, I don't have the expectations that I have with a big system. I accept it for what it is and am happy to have it.


Scott F posted the following, which says it all:
 

First the expectations...I ignore the system deficiencies and am more than pleasantly surprised when it occasionally reproduces a lifelike note or two. After that note or two, I get over it quickly and go back to listening to the song and not the sound. The music makes me happy.

Lensman
P.S. I do like experimenting and removing parts and things.  I always put them in a clear ziplock bag.

[Lensman]

Hi Lensman,

I think many of us are experiencing the same issue that you currently face.  I've sunk so much money into this hobby it isn't funny.  I'm not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination.

Currently i have 3 ss amplifiers all of which cost me approx $3000us at my home.  I only use one at a time.

I'm really trying not to purchase anymore equipment and just listen to the music from now on.

Regards

Rod

Hey Rod,

Let's see...3 SS amps/ $3,000.....so.....hmmmm



 

Is one of them a Puccini or an Exposure???

Lensman

[jon_010101]

Fascinating thread.  

I go through this all the time... I've been tempted to entirely dump my system on a few occasions, to finally finish restoring my A25s and/or Large Advents, Sherwood S5000, Dual 1019, and Scott 350C, (total system cost to me: $135) and just avoid the tweaky stuff.

I agree that the biggest challenge is training yourself to ignore what's wrong, to just get into the music.  My biggest mistake was doing some recording and mixing projects over the past years.  Now I can hear and identify the majority of problems quickly (dynamic nonlinearity, phase distortion, filtering, intermodulation, noise contamination, etc.) -- my system sounded much better 3 years ago when I couldn't tell what was wrong.  Objectively, my system is 10x better than it was then.  When I went to an audio show last year, I heard absolutely zero systems that sounded any less-flawed than my own, at all price ranges.  Of course, their flaws all appeared in different places.  I went home smugly-satisfied.

Recently, whenever my system's got me down ... I install a solid state or digital amp for a day or two.  Listen louder than usual, but not while in the room -- while cooking, doing other stuff, etc.  Background music.  Maybe a bit of "active" listening, but not much.  It sounds "good" for a bit.  Then I put the tube amps back in, and *poof* things are awesomely much better... the treble glare goes away, detail emerges, the bass gets tighter, the soundstage doubles in size.  And then I'm happy for at least a couple days, until I remember all the flaws again.    

My next project is a ground-up push-pull amp design that will be (hopefully) immune to tube rolling (based only on the finest new-production and cheap Russian military tubes), using local feedback, solid state power and regulation, and careful tuning on a lab bench before even listening to it.  My attempt at objective design -- but if it fails, the $135 system might be promoted to "main rig" status

[Scott F.]

Hey Lensman,

I really wasn't kidding about going the vintage route. An old Fisher or HH Scott with a pair of stacked Advents puts out a tone to die for. Heck, if you spend the next year replacing passives one by one, closely listening to each change along the way, I really think you'll find the music again in the process. That system will never get overly analytical (mainly because of the Advents) but boy will it be involving. Just don't get in a hurry. Take your time and savor every minute with that system. Oh, and be sure to use the tone controls, thats what they are there for, controlling the tone. I really miss those things sometimes (I'm such a bad audiophile sometimes). Tell you what though, I'd almost guarantee that when you plug it in, you'll forget all about audiophilia.


Hey jon_010101, you really need to set that system up in a spare room of your house to remember what you've been missing all this time.

[James Romeyn]

Man the above post about Advents rings a bell.  Decades ago I had a pair of Advents & so did one of my two roomies.  We stacked those mommas in the corners of the little living room & drove them with one big receiver each pair.  Played the Doobies & no idea how it didn't feed back on the TT unless w/ used a cassette deck.  Still to this day one of my most memorable audio moments.  That room was rocking.   

[jon_010101]

Hey jon_010101, you really need to set that system up in a spare room of your house to remember what you've been missing all this time.

I know, really! ... Right now the 350C is under my listening-futon gathering dust... the S5000 is just a few caps away from perfection... the Advents (otherwise perfect) are in the basement with bad surrounds... the A25s seem to have one tweeter out-of-phase... the 1019 needs a new cartridge.  It's *almost* there but nothing is quite ready.  Just need to dedicate an afternoon and ~$100 to finish them all off.  I think it'll be a perfect anti-hifi.

Push-pull EL84s, and big-cone speakers are a seriously-excellent remedy for the stereo blues, IMHO.

[1000a]

One of the coolest times in my audio life was having horizontally double stacked advents
in each corner run by a pretty heafty NAD.  I loved the org large advents, I started out with KLH model 32s, sort off.  Used to lust over the AR line I saw in Layfette Electronics when I was a kid.  I did not even give up my advents until about 2000.  What ever ease they had the next pair had to have that certain something I always loved about those speakers.

I say sort of w the KLH32s cause really my first speakers were about 10" tall 6" deep cabinets I hooked to my Radio Shack voice cassette recorder with a Y plug off the head phone jack I believe.  Now that would be down sizing - I used to ride my bike to my buddies house to play them Black Sabbith or Paranoid.  I recorded my albums off my older sister's grey flip top portable turntable w detacable speakers.  I had to be so quiet to do it with the little microphone, I started just pathching into her spkr. outputs.

My paper route brought me to Dixie Hi-Fi to go thru the various Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer dreams even though I could only afford 1-2-3 notches up the line at best.
Now I lament not having photos of each set up all the way, just memories. 

While on my sentimental story telling:
I remember the real audio store I would go to sometimes, the Dalquest DQ10's the Maganarplainars, the Revoxs, The big Macs, oh God that was heaven it was a dream.

I hope I have not hijacked this, the coolest thing I remember also as a kid, was when my dad bought a used Bogan integrated tube amp out of the trading post.  The volume controll crackled it was a little noisy but my God it was not SS and had magic I'll never forget.  Shame I did not get tubes until 2001.

OK enough I am starting to feel a little sad, so many miles I have traveled here on this earth. 

[Rocket]

Hi Lensman,

I have the following amps:

N.E.W. Dc - 66 battery amp
Spread Spectrum Technologies 'son of ampzilla'
Modified PS Audio hca - 2

Regards

Rod

[Lensman]

I go through this all the time... I've been tempted to entirely dump my system on a few occasions, to finally finish restoring my A25s and/or Large Advents, Sherwood S5000, Dual 1019, and Scott 350C, (total system cost to me: $135) and just avoid the tweaky stuff.

Jon_010101-

I had a pair of Dynaco A25's, along with a Marantz 2270 receiver and a BIC turntable.  That was the first nice system I ever owned.

Lensman

[carusoracer]

I am really enjoying the insightful comments in this thread.

Weez,  I'm not convinced it's a question of flaws in the system that need to be addressed.  It's about the listener.  It's about comparative listening, evaluating and judging, as opposed to connecting with the music.  It's about a system as a work in progress, a test bench instead of a listening room.  I woke up one day and realized my interest in electronics and the joy of experimenting with parts and circuits had ceased to serve my love of music, and had instead become a substitute for it.   

I need a vacation and maybe a good HDradio FM tuner.

Lensman
Owner of cheap components that have had their parts replaced

One of the best comments! My system was down for a month and I did not listen to anything at home...
I picked up my buddies Tow vehicle that has Sirius Satellite radio. Whoa, did I forget how much I like some many different genres of music. I was driving the thing constantly just to hear the Sat radio and all the good music I ended up borrowing my buddies various Amps and listening more to the bedroom system now with all the new CD's I bought from Amazon!
Once I got my new Amp I really enjoyed listening to music again because I had all this new music to listen to...OTH, same thing with the Public Library system. I get to sample for a period of time all the CD's I want and decide if I want to buy them. It has lead to greater musical horizons.

Last, I went out to see some local bands and went to a good dinner Jazz club. I forget just how much music is a part of my everyday life

[TONEPUB]

I understand what you mean too.  I do this for a living and once in a while
it does get to be a little trying, but I couldn't imagine my life without music
in it every day on a halfway decent system.

Maybe just take a "vacation"

[richidoo]

Since so many of us resonate with the feeling of frustration in reaching our goals, could it be that we are all seeking something similar and using similar methods to not reach it? AC is full of opinions shared by thousands of people, suggesting we are all looking for similar goal/feeling.

If I had to summarize it for myself, I am trying to create a button that I press whenever I want to feel intense overwhelming joy. Right now, I'm trying to build "the button" within the audio hobby, but I have tried making a joy button in other hobbies and careers too, with varying degrees of success.

From that perspective, I wonder why it is so difficult to make a machine that fulfills emotional needs. Everyone's emotions are different? No, we all have the same emotions, used differently at various times of course, but a dozen emotions cover it all and we all use the same ones. Music is available to express each in its course. So what are we looking for that has eluded Lensman and has him teetering at the precipice? Do we share the same goal and can it be fulfilled?

Can a joy button be made which would electrify a majority? - a common hobby that "most people" could fully enjoy. I think this is the driving force behind marketing to disposable income. What's your pleasure and how much are you willing to spend to get it? When the pleasure centers of the brain are mapped, will we simply take a pill to feel intense joy on command, or press a button while sitting in the joy seat? I think that is what this and all other hobbies are all about.

Rich

[nathanm]

I think you're supposed to listen to a record by Stinky Wizzleteats for that.

[Lensman]

Can a joy button be made which would electrify a majority?

From this day forth it shall be known as the Volksbutton.  It shall be accessible to the masses and reasonably priced at $299.99.
I like your style, Rich.  Eloquent as always!

Help me, I'm falling down.


Lensman