Should I get out of audio?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #20 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 03:08 am »

Should I get out of audio?

Yes....there's no need to chase the latest...or the greatest equipment.....just change your focus....become a music lover....listen to the tunes....hear the words...feel the beat.....you can even dance.....

When you chase the perfect sound...it wears you down....and without music...all the best equipment in the world means nothing.

contrarian · « **Reply #21 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 03:12 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 28 Apr 2007, 03:08 am

Should I get out of audio?

Yes....there's no need to chase the latest...or the greatest equipment.....just change your focus....become a music lover....listen to the tunes....hear the words...feel the beat.....you can even dance.....

When you chase the perfect sound...it wears you down....and without music...all the best equipment in the world means nothing.

Amen

rodge827 · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 03:33 am »

Dude,
Don't give up !! Many of us have been through the frustration of an over hyped piece of gear, or system in my case.

Think back to what brought you to this hobby in the first place,the love of music. Take a sabbatical. I too was unhappy with the sound of my system until I recently had a remodel done to my basement. This was supposed to take a couple of months, here we are nine months later and I've finally put my system back together again

Wow ! What a joy it has been to rediscover what I've been missing. Just to be able to sit and listen again has brought a whole new appreciation to this insane hobby of ours.
Spring is breaking out all over and summer is right around the corner. Get outside breathe some fresh air, play ball, dig the babes at the beach

, whatever it takes, do it. Then get back to the music, this hobby is supposed to be fun, right !!

hmen · « **Reply #23 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 04:03 am »

I can imagine myself content with my system someday and not obsessing over each piece of gear but I'll never stop listening to music. Sometimes we all need to stop chasing the unobtainable and just enjoy the music for a while.

JLM · « **Reply #24 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 10:10 am »

I stepped back from striving for high-end audio for a few years (a divorce was part of the story). After I got my head and wallet straightened out again I looked into Lasix surgery, but found out that I wasn't a viable candidate. So I decided if I couldn't see, I might just as well get back into audio. It was fun to find out vinyl and tubes were back, and to discover some new technology and all the information that was on the internet.

IMO audio can have 3 aspects: musical enjoyment (don't know why you'd do it without this part); collecting/swapping/auditioning/playing with gadgets (pure music lovers just put up with whatever); and DIY (to make it really into a hobby). Musical enjoyment for an audiophile involves the music itself and how well you can hear it. The DIY aspect is optional (I've done some, but only as a means to an end, I'm not driven by any means to do it for it's own sake). Frankly the gadget aspect was more of a draw before PCs, HTs, or PDAs.

I've found that the hyper detailed sound from some systems is fatiging and can lead to burn-out as it overly engages the analytical side of the brain and blocks out some of the emotional enjoyment of the music. It draws you into an evaluation/critical mode of listening and ends up limiting how many recordings you listen to as the rest become unbearable. This is why many audiophiles put tone/musicality/imaging at the top of their priority list. This is behind the question: If you were stuck on a deserted island and could choose, would you prefer a killer system with a very limited number of good sounding recordings or would you pick a very ordinary system with unlimited selections.

Too many times we reach for the equipment that puts us on the island with only a few recordings we can enjoy. It's the same sort of equipment that can drive you crazy finding and picking nits. No wonder folks can burn out from this kind of audio. Life is too short and there are too many other (more intelligent) ways of spending your extra time and money that are a lot more fun. I advise people to audition equipment using both the best sounding/favorite recordings and the most poorly recorded music you enjoy to make sure the equipment fits your music, not the other way around.

If you're a music lover, stay with audio and look for toneful/musical speakers. If not, cut bait and move on.

Scott F. · « **Reply #25 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 02:39 pm »

Ya know, I've got a bunch of systems of differing quality around the old homestead. I happen to have a really crappy system out in my wood shop. It is an old Sony JFet integrated with an old Sherwood CD player a NAD auto reverse cassette deck, a Marantz tuner and a pair of Infinity bookshelf speakers that I gutted and and put some Vifa speakers in. Oh, and I use zip cord and the cheap plastic interconnects. When I am out working in my shop, that system has me singing and rockin' more than any of my systems in the house (which sell for hundreds and hundreds times more).

I've got a theory as why this is. It is twofold; the environment and my expectations.

First the expectations, I mentally see this place of work so I'm not expecting to get lifelike sound from the system. In turn I ignore the system deficiencies and am more than pleasantly surprised when it occasionally reproduces a lifelike note or two. After that note or two, I get over it quickly and go back to listening to the song and not the sound. The music makes me happy.

Second is the environment. In my wood shop, I have the speakers backed against the wall and at uneven heights and toed in at odd angles....it's anything but proper listening environment. I mentally know this and ignore the fact that there is no soundstage, no image, I have lumpy bass, I get weird first reflections and so on, and so on. I have no audiophile expectations of the system. Basically, I just listen to the music for the music's sake. The music makes me happy.

If you want to give up the hi-end side of audio, I say go for it. Hi-end is a state of mind that can easily make you loose sight of the music.....what we all love. But I would like to suggest this that should keep your audiophile side extremely satisfied. Sell off all of your high end gear and go retro, I mean completely retro.

Find yourself a rebuilt HH Scott 222 or 299, or a Fisher 400 or 500 tubed integrated. Make sure that it has been rebuilt by someone that knows what they were doing. Forget about installing the latest and greatest audiophile approved capacitors, just make sure that what they used was good quality and that will last. Remember, you are not going for resolution with this system, you are looking for music (again). Tube rolling with this gear is still perfectly OK to do because it is now all about TONE. Tone is part of what sucks us into the music and you need to adjust the system to meet your personal tuning frequency.

Then go out and find a pair of Dynaco A25's or a pair of Advents or even better yet a pair of Altec Bolero's (my personal fav). Get some zip cord (to hell with audiophile cables) and some cheap interconnects and one of the super inexpensive universal players (like the Pioneer 578) and a cheap Dual 1229 outfitted with a Shure M97 and never look back.

Do Not set the system up where you try to get an image or soundstage or anything that resembles anything audiophile-like. Just plop it down and plug it in. Do not set it up in a dedicated listening room because that will send your brain signals that somehow this in an audiophile system. Remember, you are trying to de-program yourself from the audiophile syndrome and hype.

Don't be afraid to use the tone controls either. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them..........(did I just hear a collective gasp?) If the tone controls make the music sound better, use them. This goes back to my statement about tube rolling and your personal tuning frequency.

You have to look at this affliction as sort of a 12 step program. You became addicted and not you have to ween yourself from the mental baggage associated with the disease (and it is a disease). The most damaging way is to go cold turkey, no music at all. If you do that, you will likely find yourself sneaking looks at audiophile magazines and sniffing around hi-end stores. Next thing you know you will be back buying $300 interconnects and saving for new speakers.

With this, the Scott F. approved method of audiophile withdrawal, you you will never want for anything audio related again.........other than more music.

Though the last part was written in jest, I am completely serious. With as many people that we audio writers have helped find audio-nirvana, we have screwed up (probably) 2-3 times as many. For those that can't find audiophile satisfaction, go back you your roots, the music and the cheap but musical systems we all used to listen to. That entire system I mentioned should be able to be assembled for right around $1k.

Again, buy a system like this and relieve your mind from the audiophile baggage and you will never look back.

mfsoa · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 02:50 pm »

I'm suprized that this thread has gained traction given the amout of info in the OP, but it is a great topic!

A few random thoughts come to mind -

-Do you have good FM stations in the area? I have been listening to so much fabulous music (WNYC, New York public radio, 93.9 after 7:00 pm) that I would never get to hear otherwise. This has really rekindled my interest in music over equipment. Find new music somehow.

-Don't look into your neighbor's window to see how happy you are.

-I think that it's true that the better your sound gets, the more you see the potential for even better sound! Try not to get sucked onto this spiral by controlling your intent. While I would love to have lots of money to buy shiny things, this desire does not have to be a negative - When I tell myself, "Wow, I'd love to own that, I bet it would sound great", I just don't say "I am unhappy because I don't own that". Try to separate these feelings and they cease to be linked! The first thought does not have to lead to the second.

-AC can help! Overall these guys are relatively not gear obsessed - What I mean is, I don't see people putting others down for not having $100K systems. It's about the joy that YOU get from YOUR gear and YOUR music. AC is hear to help in that direction, not to bend you into someone else's reality. (At least that's my take)

I truly wish you happiness whatever you decide.

eric the red · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 02:53 pm »

"-Don't look into your neighbor's window to see how happy you are."

Lensman · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 04:02 pm »

Some of the pearls of insight that I have found most thought-provoking and therapeutic in this thread:

"Striving for excellence is fun and achievable...Striving for prefection...unachievable, frustrating and will suck the passion and fun right out of you."

"I think that it's true that the better your sound gets, the more you see the potential for even better sound!"

"Try to re-discover what connected you in the first place and find a way to be at peace with that."

"Go for "value components", not high end cables and junk like that."

"I just came to peace with the fact that no one knows what the perfect audio system sounds like – because it doesn’t exist."

"the people you meet on this journey are far more valuable than the gear..."

"When you chase the perfect sound...it wears you down....and without music...all the best equipment in the world means nothing."

"Think back to what brought you to this hobby in the first place,the love of music."

"Sometimes we all need to stop chasing the unobtainable and just enjoy the music for a while."

"If you were stuck on a deserted island and could choose, would you prefer a killer system with a very limited number of good sounding recordings or would you pick a very ordinary system with unlimited selections."

"Ya know, I've got a bunch of systems of differing quality around the old homestead. I happen to have a really crappy system out in my wood shop. It is an old Sony JFet integrated with an old Sherwood CD player a NAD auto reverse cassette deck, a Marantz tuner and a pair of Infinity bookshelf speakers that I gutted and and put some Vifa speakers in. Oh, and I use zip cord and the cheap plastic interconnects. When I am out working in my shop, that system has me singing and rockin' more than any of my systems in the house (which sell for hundreds and hundreds times more). I've got a theory as why this is. It is twofold; the environment and my expectations."
"I think that it's true that the better your sound gets, the more you see the potential for even better sound! Try not to get sucked onto this spiral by controlling your intent."

""-Don't look into your neighbor's window to see how happy you are."

Not quite as therapeutic, but an enjoyable read nonetheless...

"[Lensman] is like a crack head seeking needed help in a crack house...with other crack heads, and crack dealers...crack manufacturers even!"

Incidentally, when it comes to enjoying music for the sake of the music, I find tremendous satisfaction in my little DC-powered, single-driver system.
5 mW per channel amp, 114 dB /mW "speakers".

Lensman

James Romeyn · « **Reply #29 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 28 Apr 2007, 02:29 am

Poor Lensman. He has found himself up against the wall. For whatever unbeknownst reason he has come to the end.

He seeks sollace. He looks to his fellow audiophiles for the help he desperately needs. He looks to others to carry him to a place where he no longer will have to deal with what ales him.

Poor misguided Lensman. He is an addict and he will be for life. He is like a crack head seeking needed help in a crack house...with other crack heads, and crack dealers...crack manufacturers even!

Lensman, smoke it. Everything will be better. Don't hassle it, man. Just keep doing it. Everything will be fine.

And most of all, enjoy the music!

May be the best audio post ever, especially "crack manufacturers" & our dear little future Congresswoman; who IS that with her?

I went about a month w/o my system after a recent move...soooo much better w/ it up & running...love that it's next to my workroom now instead of far down the hall.

My best advice: toss your TV you'll enjoy the music more...

2bigears · « **Reply #30 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 05:46 pm »

now your talkin',turn off that boob-tube!!!! absolutely mindless activity!!!! can't build those flat screens fast enough and big enough to match the potato chip bags also getting bigger . let the music play.spend most of your cash on buying the music and not your system.room treatment is a must.have fun.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #31 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 06:43 pm »

...or build something like this for <$300 and be done with it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html

JoshK · « **Reply #32 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 07:10 pm »

Lots of good advice here already. I slowly worked myself into DIY as the hobby, instead of component swapping. I enjoy this more, but it isn't for everyone.

I realized that I wasn't really getting so much better as I was different, at least without getting a second mortgage and buying a huge house with a full on dedicated room. So instead I found that I could divert my energies to change things into building things, so now I can test ideas by building things.

I found that through learning to build, I have learned a lot about what makes things sound the way they do, and I have found enjoyment in my system with less money into it. This wasn't really the intention but a nice by-product. You have to keep in mind that people do hear, or at least process sound, differently. Its up to you to figure out what you really want and learn to ignore everyone else, including dealers, forums, mags, etc and just work on obtaining the sound that let's you enjoy your music and turn off that nagging analytical mind that gets in the way of enjoying the music.

PSP · « **Reply #33 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 07:49 pm »

That depends on you. If you listen with a critical mind, you will always find flaws and will always be unhappy. If you listen with your heart, any reasonably decent radio (Tivioli) is "good enough", although nicer equipment can bring you closer to the music, closer to what the artist had in mind during the performance.

So, if you can't control your analytical mind, sell. But if your heart can listen to music and be happy (say with a pretty good iPod feeding a pretty good amp and speakers) then go minimalist. Sell all the stuff you don't need but keep the best of your core equipment, get a beer (wine, whatever) and relax to the music. Read a good book, love a good woman, worry less, listen more. Put some money in savings. Think about yourself at 75... what things do you really want to have done when you reach that age?

Good luck, have fun...
Peter

2bigears · « **Reply #34 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 08:07 pm »

PSP,put money in savings???????

WEEZ · « **Reply #35 on:** 28 Apr 2007, 09:56 pm »

Lensman,

What are your system's flaws? If nobody knows, nobody can give you any advice.

WEEZ

shep · « **Reply #36 on:** 29 Apr 2007, 12:07 pm »

Interesting question

and yes you did choose the strangest place to ask it! On the other hand, maybe not... I dropped out for ten years for much the same reason, had a "slip" while innocently browsing the web (cunning baffling powerful!) now I'm back in the thick of it, trying "controlled" audio

I even set a limit as to how much I would spend (which I have of course exceeded) sound familiar anyone? I'm not ready to start a new 12 step program out here in the boondocks (I'm already in one anyway) Jeez I wish you hadn't asked posted this...

pardales · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 Apr 2007, 02:13 pm »

Might be time to step back and take stock. Think about what it is you enjoy. A little over a year ago I realized that I had a revolving door of some pretty expensive gear going through my system -- losing a little with each resale -- I too was lost and a bit depressed. I realized that I had lost sight of what was important to me. I stepped back, read a lot, listened to a lot at dealers and friends systems, and came to the conclusion that I had to figure out what kind of sound I really enjoyed. This took time. I decided to try a new formula based on my exhaustive reading of threads and reviews combined with some intense listening sessions where I borrowed equipment and listened to it in my home. I finally figured out a formula that works for me, low wattage amplification, NonOS digital, and crossoverless, hi efficiency speakers. Couple this with an insistence on value -- never assume more expensive it better. This is the formula that got me back to what is important, the music. I am enjoying this hobby like never before now and the revolving door is idle. I hope this helps.

Mathew_M · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Apr 2007, 03:17 pm »

To steal a saying from another expensive and addictive hobby; "The best camera is the one that you have with you." Meaning that you can have the best, most expensive lens and camera body but it does you no good if it's too big or complicated to use when you need to take a picture. I think the same applies to listening to music. A lot of audiophiles frown upon mp3 players but in reality they have re-invigorated people to listen to more music. I know for myself that I've listened to more music via my iPod and a inMotion 'boombox' than I have on my dedicated system which currently resides in the basement. I also enjoy my squeezebox for the 'low-bitrate' internet music stations. In fact I find a Squeezebox coupled with a digital receiver like the Panasonic ones to be very musically satisfying with even the lowest quality material.

doug s. · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Apr 2007, 03:59 pm »

Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net on 28 Apr 2007, 05:22 pm

My best advice: toss your TV you'll enjoy the music more...

i agree w/this adwice; i would take it myself. except i don't own a tv to toss!

i also love fm - if you have a station that plays music you like, that broadcasts a quality signal, you will be thrilled w/excellent music - even for serious critical "sweet-spot" listening, if you have a good tuna.

doug s.