A Sad Commentary

PLMONROE · « **Reply #80 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 08:48 pm »

I understand the "taste", I just can't comprehend the "diverse" at all.

nathanm · « **Reply #81 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 09:01 pm »

The word "noise" should not be used as a euphemism for "don't like it". Besides, there are actual noise bands which sound nothing like the genres Wind Chaser described. Even then it could be pared down further. A fan motor, radio static or tape hiss is what I'd call pure noise.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #82 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 10:32 pm »

I totally concur with Wind Chaser.

It's just in the last 3 years, I just thought of most classical as tolerable noise, or a cacophony.

Somehow the heavens opened up suddenly in the past 3 years and I understand it, totally, now. I don't know if it coincided with the birth of my daughter, complete immersion into tube gear or return to vinyl after several years away.....but it hit me like a rock in da' head at age about age 41.

I actually think I'm a mellow middle-aged guy now because of it now. That's good as I was involved in one too many scraps as a youngun'

I just think for some unknown reason I was ready to embrace it...and no matter what efforts made prior to it I wasn't ready.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #83 on:** 11 Apr 2007, 10:52 pm »

I can think of nothing that could, might, or would provide better publicity for Bell than this stunt. He was interviewed extensively on NPR today about the subject incident. He sure sounds like just an ordinary guy for being so talented.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #84 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 12:18 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 11 Apr 2007, 10:32 pm

I totally concur with Wind Chaser.

It's just in the last 3 years, I just thought of most classical as tolerable noise, or a cacophony.

Somehow the heavens opened up suddenly in the past 3 years and I understand it, totally, now. I don't know if it coincided with the birth of my daughter, complete immersion into tube gear or return to vinyl after several years away.....but it hit me like a rock in da' head at age about age 41.

I actually think I'm a mellow middle-aged guy now because of it now. That's good as I was involved in one too many scraps as a youngun' I just think for some unknown reason I was ready to embrace it...and no matter what efforts made prior to it I wasn't ready.

Some people would consider this a sign of maturity and taste, but don't let that stop you.

d.b.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #85 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 02:41 am »

Dan,

You are pretty stuck up and judgemental about music. Tell me, do you actually think if all the so called great composers lived in our day and age they'd still be into classical?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #86 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:08 am »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Some people would consider this a sign of maturity and taste, but don't let that stop you.

d.b.

I've never been accused of THAT before

This taste for classical now is weirding me out

Singapura · « **Reply #87 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:19 am »

Wind Chaser. I've been reading through your comments and have to conclude that your age must be 15 or below, am I right? If not, why are you posting on an audio forum at all? The point of a forum is to have an adult discussion with arguments not to see who can flame the best.

It's okay to have an opinion but there's no arguing taste.

Having said that, the conclusions of Joshua Bell's experiment aren't completely valid. Just because nobody stopped to listen to the music doesn't mean it's not appreciated. I'm an avid music fan myself and listen to almost every genre imaginable, from Classical (Mozart, Dvorak) to Chinese (Dream of Red Mansions) to Metal (Slayer, Metallica).

Anyway, when I'm on my way to work I just don't have time to stop and listen to music or look at paintings or anything else. I've been to Washington and the pace there is even higher so I can imagine that people won't stop to listen, especially if the musician is less well known in mainstream circles. If U2 or the Rolling Stones would have performed the results might have been different. If mr Bell had done the same experiment in Venice, Paris or Vienna the results would be different as well. The results of the experiment say nothing about the level of musical education or appreciation and it certainly doesn't say anything about Joshua Bell's qualities or the beauty of classical music. It merely shows that the professionals that use the Washington subway are in a rush and have no time for anything else.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #88 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:33 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 12 Apr 2007, 02:41 am

Dan,

You are pretty stuck up and judgemental about music. Tell me, do you actually think if all the so called great composers lived in our day and age they'd still be into classical?

C'mon man. That's a rhetorical question. And you're not being stuck up and judgemental about music?

If you were back in the 18th century, would you be a hater?

Cheers

Tweaker · « **Reply #89 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 04:57 am »

Quote from: Singapura on 12 Apr 2007, 03:19 am

It merely shows that the professionals that use the Washington subway are in a rush and have no time for anything else.

The timing was deliberate to see if people, no matter how rushed or preoccupied, would be affected enough by the "beauty of the music that it would transend the moment". It wasn't intended to be about the celebrity of the musician but purely the music itself. I think it was a valid experiment and for whatever reason(s) it failed. There is some good analysis and insights at the end of the Washington Post story.
And this really isn't about classical music and whether or not it's too boring, or "noise"

, or mind numbingly long and dense which, even though I love classical music I have to admit are almost all valid points. This was a solitary violinist playing some timeless masterpieces of such sheer beauty that should, it was thought, and I agree, have had an affect no matter how lacking in sophistication a person may be, or how much of a rush they were in. It's perhaps most of all a comment on our priorities, some of which are forced on us and others are of are choosing.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #90 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 12:53 pm »

As I've said in past threads about jazz, I find blanket statements about classical music to be hard to accept. There are so many different types of classical music...Vivaldi vs. Bruckner vs. Mozart vs. Wagner vs. etc...it seems really impossible to make gross generalizations about what are extremely different types of music. It's like lumping rock, country, blues, and fusion all into one genre...

Two movies for me that really demonstrated different aspects of classical music were Amadeus and A Clockwork Orange. Check these two movies out if you view classical music as one genre...(and heck, even go see Apocalypse Now for the helicoptor attack scene and a good dose of Wagner....)

goldlizsts · « **Reply #91 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 12 Apr 2007, 12:53 pm

.....................................(and heck, even go see Apocalypse Now for the helicoptor attack scene and a good dose of Wagner....)

Heck Phil,

That helicopter beach scene made me running for cover at the Ziegfeld. They were blasting it away, and I had to cover my ears. I wrote a "blasting" letter to them. It must have been at least 100db in there that day.

rajacat · « **Reply #92 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:42 pm »

Wind Chaser,

Would this be the type of music you like?

Raj

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #93 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: Singapura on 12 Apr 2007, 03:19 am

Wind Chaser, why are you posting on an audio forum at all? The point of a forum is to have an adult discussion with arguments not to see who can flame the best. It's okay to have an opinion but there's no arguing taste.

I've hardly been flaming here. I merely stated I don't get weepy over some pointless experiment (let alone classical music) which Dan B thinks is some travesty against the arts and culture. Whatever...

Quote from: Singapura on 12 Apr 2007, 03:19 am

Having said that, the conclusions of Joshua Bell's experiment aren't completely valid. Just because nobody stopped to listen to the music doesn't mean it's not appreciated. I'm an avid music fan myself and listen to almost every genre imaginable, from Classical (Mozart, Dvorak) to Chinese (Dream of Red Mansions) to Metal (Slayer, Metallica).

Anyway, when I'm on my way to work I just don't have time to stop and listen to music or look at paintings or anything else... The results of the experiment say nothing about the level of musical education or appreciation and it certainly doesn't say anything about Joshua Bell's qualities or the beauty of classical music. It merely shows that the professionals that use the Washington subway are in a rush and have no time for anything else.

That has been my point right from the start. I also pointed out Dan B's implication of of those who disdain or pass by this form of music as cultural ignorance as load of crap. Dan B is entitled like what he wants. But when he stated "music education and music appreciation in this country is near dead" because the average person doesn't have time or the interest to listen to Josh Bell posing as a some poor sod looking for a handout is plain stupid.

BTW, I'm probably old enough to be your father...

JohnR · « **Reply #94 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 03:59 pm »

I don't like jazz. Actually, I can't stand most of it.

(I was just reading WindChaser's post above and it occurred to me that in some circles I would be therefore be considered culturally ignorant.)

rajacat · « **Reply #95 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 04:16 pm »

I like almost any kind of music if the performance is good and the particular song or composition represents the best of the genre. I'm more tolerant of substandard performances if it is in a genre that I especially favor. I even like some Rap performers/performances

. I guess this makes me a fortunate one because I have a very large world of music to explore.

Raj

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #96 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 05:05 pm »

Quote from: JohnR on 12 Apr 2007, 03:59 pm

I don't like jazz. Actually, I can't stand most of it.

(I was just reading WindChaser's post above and it occurred to me that in some circles I would be therefore be considered culturally ignorant.)

Not by anyone relevant.

As for Jazz, I don't much care for Norah Jones and Diana Krall. I find them dull and boring. No doubt their pretty poses helped create bandwagon popularity with "Come Away With Me" and the "Look of Love" albums. Those are two grossly overrated discs. I think a lot of people pretend to be culturally sophisticated and therefore bought these yawners. I know my sister did and never even bothered to listen it.

Now by contrast Patricia Barbara and Holly Cole are much more interesting and engaging. I've seen Holly Cole live and loved every minute of it. If only Patricia would come around here.

rajacat · « **Reply #97 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 05:19 pm »

I was just listening to Sarah Vaughn with Clifford Brown. Krall is not even in the same league!

shep · « **Reply #98 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 05:21 pm »

Before anyone dumps abuse on me, I'm 100% 10th generation white-trash American. Iv'e seen crowds of people in many cities here in europe gather round a musician, in the middle of a busy day/sidewalk/subway to take it in. In Paris, places in the metro have to be reserved and there is a selection for "street musicians". It's become part of the Parisian culture. If I were a great musician I would not be spending my time doing what he did, even if the experience was interesting, the conclusion was fore-gone. America, with its steady diet of sugar, salt, starch, money, ambition is maybe just a bit deaf? (present company excepted of course) Personally I like all kinds of music and would be a dumb sad schmuck if I only listened to one kind on my nice shiney gear. Music is a blessing and whatever gets your feet moving and your heart thumping is just fine. But it does make sense to try all kinds. I really get off on classical Indian music(so do my speakers fortunately).

Audiovista · « **Reply #99 on:** 12 Apr 2007, 05:21 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 12 Apr 2007, 04:16 pm

I like almost any kind of music if the performance is good and the particular song or composition represents the best of the genre. I'm more tolerant of substandard performances if it is in a genre that I especially favor. ....... I guess this makes me a fortunate one because I have a very large world of music to explore.

Raj

Amen to that