[JoshK]

Simple... they measure them inside a concrete closet.   A little room gain never hurt.

I think your right.  Plus there is a big difference in being flat at 0,25m and being flat at 3m's. There is no replacement for displacement. 

[Bemopti123]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far, but due to its labor intensive cabs and also the pounding of the US dollar against the Euro has become prohibitively expensive to even consider one.

In that matter, if I were to purchase a minimonitor now, it pretty much has to be something either US or Canadian made.  I say go for the Devores as Vinnie has stated, made in Brooklyn, NYC.  Yeah

[JoshK]

If I were to build another mini monitor it would probably be the Radian 8" coaxial in an appropriate box.  A commercial entity made such a monitor and got a rave reveiw in six moons. 

[JoshK]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far, but due to its labor intensive cabs and also the pounding of the US dollar against the Euro has become prohibitively expensive to even consider one.

In that matter, if I were to purchase a minimonitor now, it pretty much has to be something either US or Canadian made.  I say go for the Devores as Vinnie has stated, made in Brooklyn, NYC.  Yeah

Paul, respectfully, in your aesthics.  I think it is ugly myself.  I am more of an old world fan.

[Bemopti123]

[I am more of an old world fan.

what does this mean   Explain!

[Kevin Haskins]

Simple... they measure them inside a concrete closet.   A little room gain never hurt.

I think your right.  Plus there is a big difference in being flat at 0,25m and being flat at 3m's. There is no replacement for displacement. 

Low frequency extension specs are the one of the most abused specifications in commercial loudspeakers.   When does a distortion of truth become a lie?

Here is the Extremis 24mm peak-peak excursion 6.5" driver which has as much linear throw as I've personally seen in that form factor.    Vented alignment in a 0.5ft^3 box tuned to 33Hz.    Sensitivity is 85db/1W/1M.



That is the 2Pi anachoic simulation.   In a room you would see about 10-12db more extension.   Put it in a 0.75ft^3 cabinet and tune it to 30hz and you get real response to about 25-30Hz in-room depending upon your room.   You also have to think about usable output.   A 5.25" driver runs out of suspension throw (any 5.25" on the market is limited by the size of available spiders & surrounds) WAY before you would get usable output even if you designed the T/S parameter such that you could get that kind of extension (which would also require a larger box & MUCH more power). 

At CES we measured the active MT monitors I built flat to 25Hz in that small hotel room.(with a 12db of gain at DC on the LT EQ) We where displacement & power limited at higher SPLs.   I'd say they where good to about 95db at the listening position with room gain before the amp would clip.    If I produced a commercial product based upon them I'd aim for about 30-33Hz extension in-room because any more than that and you are overdriving the transducer.    And this with a driver that probably has x6-x8 times the usable excursion and volumetric displacement capability of that 5.25" driver. 

[Vinnie R.]

Also.. for a single-driver mini-monitor, the Omega Hemp Super 3's are awesome:
http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/super3.html

 aa

[Kevin Haskins]

Simple... they measure them inside a concrete closet.   A little room gain never hurt.

I think your right.  Plus there is a big difference in being flat at 0,25m and being flat at 3m's. There is no replacement for displacement. 

Your mostly right.   It will effect the output LEVEL you will be able to reach but the LF extension you measure is the same @ 1M, 2M, 3M.   The reason this is almost the same as bandwidth is because of the Fletcher-Munson curves.   You need fairly high levels down low because our ears are less sensitive to low frequency sounds and you need higher output capability to be able to hear it.   It doesn't make a bit of difference to the mic though.   

Down low the room is such a factor that its difficult to talk about output without clearly defining how its being used/measured.   The best way would be to publish anechoic specs but then nobody would buy your "bandwidth limited" loudspeaker.   

[doug s.]

josh,

you're referring to these.  i, too, wouldn't mind giving them a listen - galante audio rhapsody's:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1187530247


the radian driver, if you're wanting to roll your own:

http://www.radianaudio.com/products/ceiling/8_ceiling.php?viewT=ceiling&viewC=8_ceiling

doug s.

If I were to build another mini monitor it would probably be the Radian 8" coaxial in an appropriate box.  A commercial entity made such a monitor and got a rave reveiw in six moons. 

Note: oops, I didn't mean to edit doug's post...mod mistake, I meant to quote it. 

[2bigears]

Lookin' at those Super 3's,i kinda like the looks and specs on those little guys.Anyone here have a set they can comment on?? thks

[Whitese]

With my gear then, I found that I loved the Platinum Audio Solo's....and they did have some serious bass.

[James Romeyn]

Josh
Read the SP article, it was very interesting.  IMO you can't beat SP's value at $13/annual subscription.

Posters ruminating about specs for Phil Jones' AAD 7001 monitor:
Forget the specs just listen to it when you get a chance.  Jones' record is unquestionably in the very topmost echelon for successful cost-no-object minimonitor designs.  The 7001 is apparently the absolutely best possible for an enclosure of its size, according to the current gospel of PJ at this time.  Based solely on the guy's track record it should be considered, till proven otherwise, among the current state of the art for size/performance, cost being omitted as a substantive part of the speaker's design equation (circa $11k/pr msrp).

What a bedroom speaker system! 

[James Romeyn]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far, but due to its labor intensive cabs and also the pounding of the US dollar against the Euro has become prohibitively expensive to even consider one.

In that matter, if I were to purchase a minimonitor now, it pretty much has to be something either US or Canadian made.  I say go for the Devores as Vinnie has stated, made in Brooklyn, NYC.  Yeah

Paul, respectfully, in your aesthics.  I think it is ugly myself.  I am more of an old world fan.

I generally agree w/ Josh here.  There is a point when something like a speaker enclosure becomes too much, too busy, too overdone.  I like something more like this, & maybe this is what Josh was talking 'bout ($5500/pr French ASA Pro Monitor imported by Walter Swanbon, New Hampshire, Dynaudio Esotec drivers, a certain musician/music producer/high-end writer's favorite standmount by a large margin)

[JoshK]

[I am more of an old world fan.

what does this mean   Explain!

I mean I like a more neo classical look rather than danish modern, in decor and aesthetic design. I said respectfully, because I realize that this is all a personal thing, being aesthetics. 

[JoshK]

josh,

you're referring to these.  i, too, wouldn't mind giving them a listen - galante audio rhapsody's:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1187530247


the radian driver, if you're wanting to roll your own:

http://www.radianaudio.com/products/ceiling/8_ceiling.php?viewT=ceiling&viewC=8_ceiling

doug s.

If I were to build another mini monitor it would probably be the Radian 8" coaxial in an appropriate box.  A commercial entity made such a monitor and got a rave reveiw in six moons. 

Note: oops, I didn't mean to edit doug's post...mod mistake, I meant to quote it. 

Doug: Yep, those are them.  Partsexpress sells the drivers with pre-manufactured crossovers (good ones too).  Just put them in the appropriate box.  I think you need to support the lowest octave with a sub.  I haven't heard them but I've heard they are good.  I didn't want to take a swipe at Galante but I think that is all they are doing, but I could be wrong.

Kevin, yes you are right.  I wasn't clear in what I meant about the distance.  I meant for a given level as you increase the distance the you need to up the source level at the speaker (the square distance rule).  So in this case playing 90db at 30hz measured at 1m isn't the same as being able to play 90db at 30hz at 3m distance where one would typically sit.  The extra 8db needed to keep the same SPL at the increased distance is more than many small monitors can handle. 

[TONEPUB]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far,

Where do you guys get off saying stuff like this?  Have you heard every other speaker mentioned, and not at a hifi show in a hotel room, but in your house with your music and your system?  That's just such an irresponsible thing to say, because almost everyone likes something different.

It's perfectly fine to say that you own the Diapason and love it, or even that it's YOUR favorite speaker.  Nothing wrong with any of that.

But the "my (insert piece of gear here) kills every thing else for (insert price range here)" is just lacking in experience.  If that were the best speaker on Earth, then everyone else would give up or just license their technology.

I'm not just picking on you.  I hate it when mfrs tell me that too.

I'll tell you my favorite speaker for 4000 bucks, the DeVore Gibbon Super 8.  My favorite for 5000 bucks? The Martin Logan Vantage.   That doesn't mean they kill your speakers and that doesn't mean you would like either of those choices.  And most of all it doesn't mean that the Diapasons aren't great speakers either.

Can we all just get a little less adversarial about all this?  It isn't a car race, there isn't a winner other than you getting a pair of speakers you really enjoy.....

[Russell Dawkins]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far,

Where do you guys get off saying stuff like this?  Have you heard every other speaker mentioned, and not at a hifi show in a hotel room, but in your house with your music and your system.

Can we all just get a little less adversarial about all this?

...would it make a difference if it were visual aesthetics being spoken of and not sonics?

[2bigears]

Dang nightshifts, i have allways been interested in monitors,and do those AAD 7001's look killer!!!! close field means smaller room and less room treatment.Lower volumes. called my Canuck dealer,he does not stock these.Dang

[Whitese]

Purely in aesthetic terms the Diapasons kill everything everyone has mentioned here so far,

Where do you guys get off saying stuff like this?  Have you heard every other speaker mentioned, and not at a hifi show in a hotel room, but in your house with your music and your system?  That's just such an irresponsible thing to say, because almost everyone likes something different.

It's perfectly fine to say that you own the Diapason and love it, or even that it's YOUR favorite speaker.  Nothing wrong with any of that.

But the "my (insert piece of gear here) kills every thing else for (insert price range here)" is just lacking in experience.  If that were the best speaker on Earth, then everyone else would give up or just license their technology.

I'm not just picking on you.  I hate it when mfrs tell me that too.

I'll tell you my favorite speaker for 4000 bucks, the DeVore Gibbon Super 8.  My favorite for 5000 bucks? The Martin Logan Vantage.   That doesn't mean they kill your speakers and that doesn't mean you would like either of those choices.  And most of all it doesn't mean that the Diapasons aren't great speakers either.

Can we all just get a little less adversarial about all this?  It isn't a car race, there isn't a winner other than you getting a pair of speakers you really enjoy.....

I agree but he only said 'aesthetically"....still just an opinion of his ( he forgot the IMO)

[TONEPUB]

Well, that's always the critical part.

For example, my favorite color in the whole world is that bright lime green
on Kawasaki motorcycles.  Is it your favorite color?  More than likely not.

Is blue a better color?

So much of this stuff is like buying art, it's really subjective.

What's really important is that you find the choice that makes you happy.

I used to have a pair of 2nd Rethms and thought they were really interesting
(in a good way) looking and oddly enough my wife even liked them!

But most people came over to our house and thought we were really
weird!  And so it goes....

Some people like Andy Warhol, some like Norman Rockwell and some don't care.