A day at Franks

Wayner · « **on:** 6 Apr 2007, 08:48 pm »

Today was a fabulous day! I went to Franks Factory and had my T8 upgraded with the new 6n1p tubes. We had a great time and I got to meet 2 of his employees. I brought my Grado Gold Longhorn and a couple of albums to enjoy while Frank was doing the upgrade. After the upgrade was completed, Frank plugged it into his system and played some tunes. "Wow, I can't believe this stuff", I said to myself. Frank asked "do you like the upgrade"? I said "ya". Boy what a dope I was. I couldn't come up with any words. The T8 blew me away! Usually I have plenty of BS to hand out, but not this time.

On the way out the door, Frank handed me a proto-type of the Ultra 70 (I do some work for Frank). He said "here are some tubes".

Well, here I am at home, listening to my newly modified T8 hooked up to the U70 running my Dynaco A25XL's with the Empire turntable as the source.

I maybe listening to some of the best vinyl on the face of the earth at this moment!

Anyway, I will share what I can. Here is a nice pic.

The system comes highly recommended!

WEEZ · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 09:13 pm »

Nice report!

WEEZ

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Apr 2007, 10:00 pm »

You are one lucky audiophile!

You know what they say about audio "LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION" Your report really wets my appetite for a full size T8

"Look Honey, Frank sent me a new one." Hmm, that may need some polishing. Enjoy!

dB Cooper · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 03:42 am »

Damn, I could use a few tubes myself, now that I think of it

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 06:26 am »

It's 1:30 in the morning. I'm going to crash. I think I played about 12 albums and 2 CD's. The bias has settled down to a nice 1.63 volts on both sides and I must say that this is the best amp in the house! The 33 watts per channel will fool you. There is all the power in the world to crank this thing up to realistic levels. One note is that an all tube system certainly compliments vinyl very well. It's not too soft. The T8/U70 combo is a marriage of unique proportions, they make great music together. Not only is the upper mid range sweet, but the low end has a nice authority to it as well.

TjMV3 · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 12:19 pm »

Thank you Wayner.

So when can we expect the Ultra 70 to be available and at what price?

What tubes does the Ultra 70 utilize?

What brand of tubes did you use with the Ultra 70?

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 12:54 pm »

TjMV3

You will have to ask Frank if the U70 will end up in production.

The tubes are (4) 6CA7 power tubes, (2) 6GH8A and (1) 5AR4.

The 6CA7's are Electro-Harmonix, the 6GH8A is made by National and the 5AR4 is made by Sovetek.

Editorial:

I understand Franks hesitation about not putting this amp into production. The cost per watt ratio could be high and many folks may be turned away at the final cost, what ever that may be. From a sonic perspective, I think this amp will drive any reasonable speaker load to any rational level. I was a little skeptical about its somewhat lower power output until I thumped the Dynacos last night. There is plenty of power! Of course, I wish he would build it, but Frank is a very practical man and has very good reasons for not going into production. Is there enough interest in this amp? Tooling the sheet metal is expensive and maintaining inventory (transformers (4), tubes) all adds to the equation. My unit is the first proto-type. A sencond one was built with the chassis made 3/4" less in height. Frank and company thought the first chassis was too thick looking. So the one I got is a one of a kind from AVA.

W

WEEZ · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 07:13 pm »

I also fully understand that Frank is hesitant to launch this amplifier. However, most tube amp buyers fully appreciate that the cost per watt ratio is higher than solid state. Most tube lovers aren't concerned with high power.

When I heard it powering the HT2's, the sound was sublime. (And I wouldn't think that the HT2's are the most 'tube friendly' load, either.) It's a terrific amplifier. Maybe it should be priced and offered as a non-stock, custom order only- with long lead times?

WEEZ

modular747 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 12:49 am »

Most tube amps sound a lot more powerful than their continuous power ratings compared to solid state. This has been attributed things like higher dynamic headroom and "softer" clipping, but I'm not sure anyone really know why.

WEEZ · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 01:01 am »

mod747,

Agreed. There is no real substitute for the lowly vacuum tube. Despite the rave over class d, class t, or whatever... (IMHO

) Some say it's the 'sound' of the transformers. Maybe. Some say it's the overload characteristics of tubes. Maybe. Hell if I know.

WEEZ

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 01:51 am »

Frank,

Is there a specific reason - easier implementation, reliability, whatever - why all of your designs have solid state rectification? All but the U70, of course, in which you left the existing Dynaco rectifier in place.

One of these days I'm going buy one of those replacement solid state tube rectifiers (they're pretty cheap) and A vs. B in the same preamp or amp to hear the difference in the exact same preamp/amp....my layman version of a 'technical' experiment

But, the preamps and amps I've heard with tube rectification are generally preferred to those with non-tube rectification (any shrillness seems abated to very minimal levels as the most telltale benefit for me) ...wondering why/how you choose one over the other?

Thx, John

avahifi · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 01:14 pm »

It is because we found this amazing obsure source of the most marvelous sounding diodes, each hand made from silicon sand that was removed from Bikini Atol in the Pacific at great risk to life and limb. This allows the diodes to give off a warm orange glow just as bright as a tube rectifier. We would like to build Beebeebees inside each diode too, but can't make them small enough.

Besides, the diodes only cost us 5 cents each and we will stoop at nothing to make a higher profit even if it wrecks the sound.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Please, back to reality with the questions. Like what brand of brass should be used for the Longhorn Stabilier bar. Answer, S&K #181, or is it K & S #181, I forgot.

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 01:17 pm »

Its just too early in the morning and not enough kauphy yet to have mellowed out.

Best answer, listen to one of our new pieces, then decide for yourself.

Sorry about being a smartass sometimes, can't help it.

Frank

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 02:41 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 8 Apr 2007, 01:51 am

Frank,

Is there a specific reason - easier implementation, reliability, whatever - why all of your designs have solid state rectification? All but the U70, of course, in which you left the existing Dynaco rectifier in place.

One of these days I'm going buy one of those replacement solid state tube rectifiers (they're pretty cheap) and A vs. B in the same preamp or amp to hear the difference in the exact same preamp/amp....my layman version of a 'technical' experiment

But, the preamps and amps I've heard with tube rectification are generally preferred to those with non-tube rectification (any shrillness seems abated to very minimal levels as the most telltale benefit for me) ...wondering why/how you choose one over the other?

Thx, John

Hi John, When one of the original Mullard GZ34/5AR4's went bad

I replaced them with a pair of Ruby 5AR4-C's which I found no different sounding

which lasted a 5-7 years until one developed a short. I then tried to find a match for the remaining Mullard (date coded 1959 Nov) but found it too $expensive$.

During my research I came across the Weber Copper Cap WZ34 as a direct replacement, you can read about it at http://www.webervst.com/ccap.html . IMO some things work due to linearity and neutrality, just letting the electrons flow. So now I have a pair of hybrid Dynaco Mk.IV amps driven by the all tube T8. Although I still keep an eye out for a black base, narrow envelope, Mullard w/etched code f31 B9K, if I am going to spend my record buying money on tubes it will be better spent on driver and power tubes anyway. Enjoy!

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 04:31 pm »

Today I hooked up the 170ex to the T8. Yep, now it will take me an hour everyday to decide which amp to listen to. This combo is great. Perhaps not as soft as the all tube T8/U70 combo, but the high end is sweet! Imaging is also stellar. As I'm listening to XTC's "English Settlement", I have noticed the cymbals have the most natural attack and decay. Vocals are very pure and natural sounding. Of course, with the Dyanco speakes being 91 db efficient, there is plenty of bass.

W

Flyquail56 · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 11:07 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 8 Apr 2007, 01:14 pm

It is because we found this amazing obsure source of the most marvelous sounding diodes, each hand made from silicon sand that was removed from Bikini Atol in the Pacific at great risk to life and limb. This allows the diodes to give off a warm orange glow just as bright as a tube rectifier. We would like to build Beebeebees inside each diode too, but can't make them small enough.

Besides, the diodes only cost us 5 cents each and we will stoop at nothing to make a higher profit even if it wrecks the sound.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Please, back to reality with the questions. Like what brand of brass should be used for the Longhorn Stabilier bar. Answer, S&K #181, or is it K & S #181, I forgot.

Frank,
Maybe something has changed since then, but you presented a fairly convincing argument as to why you won't use solid-state rectification in a tube preamp in the 10/85 issue of Audio Basics. Also, I didn't get the impression that TheChairGuy was asking you to give away any trade secrets...

Regards,
Mike

avahifi · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Apr 2007, 11:23 pm »

Actually each choice of rectifier is done taking into consideration the requirements of that specific circuit.

Regarding the old Dyna Pas vacuum tube preamp, the raw AC voltage from the power transformer is 2 x 330V. The highest normal diode voltage rating is 1000V without getting into really expensive parts, and that is not high enough to be reliable with this kind of AC across them, especially considering line transients. In addition there was nothing to be gained by making that change; existing tube rectifier to diode bridge. In the St-70, using a diode bridge would raise the operating voltage to the circuits by about 50V Dc, again an unreliable and unnecessary option. Remember that in those products, we were "stuck" with the original transformers unless we wanted to make a huge increase in the redesign. In new design however, where we can specify the power transformer ratings, then using solid state basic rectifiers does lower cost, improve reliability, and has no adverse affects.

The basic power supply and rectifier is running at sixty cycles per second, there is no good reason to assume that either a diode bridge or a vacuum tube rectifier would have better or worse sound in the overall scheme of things. Now what you do with the basic rectified DC voltages downstream, that is a horse of a different color. You can hear this with a T8 vacuum tube preamp, an Ultra hybrid preamp, and or an Ultra DAC.

Frank Van Alstine

lazydays · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 May 2007, 06:29 am »

Quote from: WEEZ on 7 Apr 2007, 07:13 pm

I also fully understand that Frank is hesitant to launch this amplifier. However, most tube amp buyers fully appreciate that the cost per watt ratio is higher than solid state. Most tube lovers aren't concerned with high power.

When I heard it powering the HT2's, the sound was sublime. (And I wouldn't think that the HT2's are the most 'tube friendly' load, either.) It's a terrific amplifier. Maybe it should be priced and offered as a non-stock, custom order only- with long lead times?

WEEZ

one thing I can say that I've learned over the last ten years is that speakers built for tubes sound so much better than the others. They are ( to me anyway) much smoother and maybe more open. They work well with solid state amps as well, but there's just something magic about an all tubed system. My main system down stairs was all tubed for years, and the one upstairs will always be tubed. I use Meadowlarks downstairs and a pair of Dennis Had built Soliloquys upstairs. It's got to be in the impedence curve.
gary

lazydays · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 May 2007, 06:39 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 8 Apr 2007, 04:31 pm

Today I hooked up the 170ex to the T8. Yep, now it will take me an hour everyday to decide which amp to listen to. This combo is great. Perhaps not as soft as the all tube T8/U70 combo, but the high end is sweet! Imaging is also stellar. As I'm listening to XTC's "English Settlement", I have noticed the cymbals have the most natural attack and decay. Vocals are very pure and natural sounding. Of course, with the Dyanco speakes being 91 db efficient, there is plenty of bass.

W

the one thing I've came to listen for in cymbals is a "metalic shimmer". I listen to acoustic jazz about 70% of the time, and this is important to me. Also (if you happened to play something with an upright bass), how did the bass sound? Was it open and somewhat warm to listen to? And how fast was the bass note to note?
glt

rollo · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 May 2007, 02:04 pm »

Sounds like a winner to me. What brand 6N1P tubes were used in Longhorn?

thanks
rollo