[azivian]

hello all
i wanted to hear what you all thought about the differences b/w the imod and modded olives.  i know about the technical specs and user interface.  what i'm interested to know is which one sounds better?
has anyone a/b 'd the two units?  I have an imod on the way and i have the opportunity to get a good deal on an olive so i was wondering whether to get one and send it to vinnie.  but i wanted to hear from you'all first about which one sounds better.  the olive's large hard drive is very appealing though, as i would need 3 imods to store all of my music.
thanks in advance for all of your input
alex

[Vinnie R.]

Hi azivian,

i wanted to hear what you all thought about the differences b/w the imod and modded olives.

I'll give you my take... They are actually pretty close.  Using lossless files (no MP3s or any lossy compression) for both unit, I find the the iMod to be a little warmer and smoother sounding.  The modded Olive offers a little bit better detail retrieval and overall transpareny, but at the cost exposing more flaws in recordings that are not of the best quality.
 
They both have approx the same line output voltage of 1Vrms. 
 
They are both excellent sounding sources.  Naturally, the Olive offers many more features, but you may or may not need them 
 
Best regards,

Vinnie

[isamu]

Hi. What is this "Olive" you guys are referring to?

[chgolatin2]

Hmmm, I am curious as well to what exactly is a lossless music, Flac etc  I guess mp3 recording are not good    Would love to know about these formats and how to them since I have about 500 cds and I would love to records my favorites songs from each instead of searching from so many cd's and music options.  I am not a computer geek guru  let alone an "audiophile" however I love good music.

Thanks!

[gooberdude]

Hey Robert,

Flac is a lossless file format.   In the music world now, there's a dozen or more filetypes in which music can be made into.  Lossless simply means when the file is squished to be smaller, it doesn't lose soundquality.   Most lossy filetypes destroy the tunes, man.

Every CD you own is in WAV format.  WAV is a full-sized computer file.  Nearly every other file type that you will hear about was created to make the music files smaller - in terms of bits & bytes.

Ex: a normal 700mb cd-r can hold hundreds of songs encoded in MP3, but only hold 20 of those same songs if they are in WAV form.   Friends do NOT let friends MP3!   

Flac became popular a few years ago due to online downloads.  Folks could go see a concert, record it with their personal recording devices, encode it to Flac and then let it go online so any & everyone can have it...and it sounded good.   Once you download a Flac file though, you have to convert it to a form that either your computer, Ipod or CD player can read.     I must have 60 full length concerts stored on my PC becasue the Flac decoding software I have has never worked.   

What a lot of this 'file type' stuff boils down to is sound quality & size of the files.  Every time someone comes up with a filetype that compresses the music real bad, someone else counters it with a format that tries to do the same, but 'sounds' better.    Most of the common file types were NOT developed to sound good however.

In general, i only listen to WAV files...even on my Ipod.  However, 320 aac is what i've been listening too in my Imod, and i can't tell a difference yet.  My Imod will hold 2000 songs in full on WAV format.

Check out www.ipodlounge.com  or any other other Ipod sites....loads of info regarding difft file types.

if you are a newbie to this, pay it little attention.  its a preference thing & not a topic to dwell on too much.  Having a computer based music server would be cool though, for sure.

matt

[isamu]

Hey Robert,

Flac is a lossless file format.   In the music world now, there's a dozen or more filetypes in which music can be made into.  Lossless simply means when the file is squished to be smaller, it doesn't lose soundquality.   Most lossy filetypes destroy the tunes, man.

Every CD you own is in WAV format.  WAV is a full-sized computer file.  Nearly every other file type that you will hear about was created to make the music files smaller - in terms of bits & bytes.

Ex: a normal 700mb cd-r can hold hundreds of songs encoded in MP3, but only hold 20 of those same songs if they are in WAV form.   Friends do NOT let friends MP3!   

Flac became popular a few years ago due to online downloads.  Folks could go see a concert, record it with their personal recording devices, encode it to Flac and then let it go online so any & everyone can have it...and it sounded good.   Once you download a Flac file though, you have to convert it to a form that either your computer, Ipod or CD player can read.     I must have 60 full length concerts stored on my PC becasue the Flac decoding software I have has never worked.   

What a lot of this 'file type' stuff boils down to is sound quality & size of the files.  Every time someone comes up with a filetype that compresses the music real bad, someone else counters it with a format that tries to do the same, but 'sounds' better.    Most of the common file types were NOT developed to sound good however.

In general, i only listen to WAV files...even on my Ipod.  However, 320 aac is what i've been listening too in my Imod, and i can't tell a difference yet.  My Imod will hold 2000 songs in full on WAV format.

Check out www.ipodlounge.com  or any other other Ipod sites....loads of info regarding difft file types.

if you are a newbie to this, pay it little attention.  its a preference thing & not a topic to dwell on too much.  Having a computer based music server would be cool though, for sure.

matt

Yeah, that's the thing that's holding me back from the iMod, is space. Why can't Maxtor or Seagate release their 120GB drive already? What's takng them so long?

Matt...how many songs can you generally fit into an 60GB iMod using FLAC? Also, what's a smaller file...FLAC or AAC? And which sounds better?

[Paul_Bui]

In addition to what Vinnie said about differences between two units, don't forget the Imod is more portable than the modded Olive.  On the other hand, the modded Olive is more expandable in terms of hard drive capacity and connectivity.

[Jampot]

iPods can't play flac unless you install Rokbox.

Flac and Apple lossless provide approx. the same degree of compression, and a 60 Gb drive will hold about 100 cds i either format.

Jim

[gooberdude]

Hey,

AAC is probably smaller, but it all depends..you can adjust it.

In your Ipod's instructions are a list of filetypes and selected compression sizes, this is
the MPS after the filetype.

Right now, i'm listening to 320mps AAC & think it sounds great.  prior to receiving an Imod
though, i only listened to WAV.

i do not like Apple Lossless' sound quality...but again, i might have to revisit that opinion
with the Imod.

If possible, don't go lower than 320mps for ANY filetype.  In the near future when storage gets uber cheap, you'll be kicking yourself for having 300gb of really compressed music.


from experience, aiff files sound good too.

[Vinnie R.]

Insert Quote
Hi. What is this "Olive" you guys are referring to?

Hi Isamu,

See: http://www.redwineaudio.com/Olive.html

Hmmm, I am curious as well to what exactly is a lossless music, Flac etc   I guess mp3 recording are not good 

Hi chgolatin2,

In my new iMod brochure, I state on the bottom in small text:
"Remember -- Audiophile friends don't let audiophile friends listen to MP3s... only use Lossless or WAV files!" 

MP3s are compressed and on a good system, they don't sound very good.  The 320mbs MP3s are actually pretty decent, but Apple Lossless, FLAC, or WAV is what I recommend. 

With a 60GB drive, you should be able to get 120 or more albums.  Keep in mind that most albums are not 650MB (they don't fill up the entire CD), so you'd be surprised how much you can fit onto 60GB.

Why can't Maxtor or Seagate release their 120GB drive already? What's takng them so long?

I hear ya, isamu!  I can't wait to see a 120GB drive come out.  It is only a matter of time...

In addition to what Vinnie said about differences between two units, don't forget the Imod is more portable than the modded Olive.  On the other hand, the modded Olive is more expandable in terms of hard drive capacity and connectivity.

Paul brings up a good point here.

iPods can't play flac unless you install Rokbox.

I am now using Rockbox on my iMod.  The reason is because I used my Olive to rip so many albums in FLAC and I wanted to be able to transfer them onto my iMod, so I installed Rockbox and it is working out very well so far 


Cheers!

Vinnie

[gooberdude]

hey Vinnie,

Is Rockbox a stable platform?   

most of the info i've read states it is still in Beta testing & that computers have crashed.     I'd like to try it, just a little cautious though...

matt

[jrebman]

I am now using Rockbox on my iMod.  The reason is because I used my Olive to rip so many albums in FLAC and I wanted to be able to transfer them onto my iMod, so I installed Rockbox and it is working out very well so far 

Vinnie,

When you have some time (hah-hah) could you try to install the self-voicing interface extensions to rockbox to see if it looks like it is usable via the speech interface?

If that works, I' love to get an iMod from you.

-- Jim

[Vinnie R.]

Is Rockbox a stable platform?   

most of the info i've read states it is still in Beta testing & that computers have crashed.     I'd like to try it, just a little cautious though...

Hey Matt,

It seems to be getting more stable.  Once in a while, music playing on my iMod will lock up, but it is much better than it was months ago when I tried it.  I am definitely keeping Rockbox on my iMod with all my FLAC files.  I'll download updates of Rockbox every week or so and see how they work.  There are daily builds that you can download on the Rockbox site. 

I am definitely NOT a Rockbox guru, but so far it has been pretty easy for me.  I installed it on my iMod AFTER I did a full restore and deleted music that was already on there.

Also, I love all the fonts and font sizes that you can select in Rockbox.

When you have some time (hah-hah) could you try to install the self-voicing interface extensions to rockbox to see if it looks like it is usable via the speech interface?

Hi Jim,

Do you have any links to this?  I am not familiar with it or how it works.

Thanks,

Vinnie

[jrebman]

Hi Jim,

Do you have any links to this?  I am not familiar with it or how it works.

Vinnie,

Yes, here's the link to the voice files top page:

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles

And here's the page that describes how to make this work:

http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceHowto

Now, since I'm a big believer in technology transfer and how adaptations for people with disabilities spread their benefits to a larger, usually unanticipated audience -- the so-called "curbcuts effect", in this case I'd say a good case could be made for people who are driving and need an eyes-free interface for working their iPods, errr, iMods.

Of course I know nothing about the physical interface of the iPod, so that might be another hurdle, but my hope is that if the menus and controls talk, then the physical controls should be able to be learned fairly quickly.

Well, if you decide to try this, I'll be interested to hear what you come up with.

Thanks,

Jim

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the links... I was unaware of this.

I loaded this in my iMod with Rockbox... it works! 

When I go through the menus, it speaks out each option or setting.  I am using a voice called "Mary."  She sounds very clear and easy to understand.

I didn't configure it to speak the names of all the artists, albums, etc.... as this is more work, but it CAN be done based on what I am reading. 

You can also turn the voice off in one of the settings.

Rockbox is very, very cool!     They are doing some really great stuff with it!

I'll try to explore more  of this speech interface when I find some more time, but I happy to report to you that it does actually work!

Best regards,

Vinnie

[Paul_Bui]

It's so cool.

Vinnie, is Mary's voice in my iMod?

[Vinnie R.]

It's so cool.

Vinnie, is Mary's voice in my iMod?

Hi Paul,

I didn't install the voicing interface in your Rockboxed iMod.  You can download this later if you want.

Best regards,

Vinnie

[ehart]

Hey Vinnie,

I have been holding off on buying an iPod exactly because my Olive is all filled up with Flac-encoded files. 

Do you synch your iPod directly to the Olive?  Is it a simple process to move the music over?

Cordially,

Eric

[jrebman]

Rockbox is very, very cool!     They are doing some really great stuff with it!

I'll try to explore more  of this speech interface when I find some more time, but I happy to report to you that it does actually work!

Cool, man!  Thanks a bunch for trying this out.  This brings me one step closer to an iMod.

As a long-term user of synthetic speech, I have to say 99% of the female voices drive me insane in very short order.  The voice "Reed" that they have on the download page is essentially a duplicate of a voice with the silly name of "Perfect Paul" which was one of the original stock voices that came with the original DECTalk, and which I still use most of the time these days... but if you like Mary and she's easy to understand, that's all that counts.

I'd order an iMod from you right now but I just ordered and paid for my new preamp today so it will be a while yet before I can try a new toy.

Again, thanks for taking the time to get this configured on your player and confirming that it does work.  As usual, I really appreciate it.

-- Jim

[gooberdude]

Hey,

Just wanted to report that my Impd was pitted against a Jolida tube cd player with Level 1 & 2 mods from Underwood this weekend.   We were listening to either VS VR2's or Nomad-Audio's Ronin speakers with a bad-ass Jolida 1000RC tube amp at a friends house.

We listenend with the Jolida cdp initially for a while but once i plugged in the Imod it was used for most of the demo!     

In no way does my Imod, which only has about 100hrs on it, make the Jolida look bad..the Jolida's mids & highs were amazing.   BUT, the Imod's bass was more pronounced & better to my ears.   

the fact that we could switch between the 2 without a sonic hassle was really surprising.

For me this was a comparison between a $200 source and a $2000 source...   The Imod is NO slouch.


matt