NOISY IN HERE!!

MikeC · « **Reply #100 on:** 30 Jun 2008, 08:14 pm »

Subaru have just launched a 2 litre turbo-diesel boxer engine. I have been told by my dealer that it is very good, and I really should test drive it.

The real problem with diesel is the fuel quality. Unless you use Euro grade fuel, you will smoke like a truck, bypassing many of the environmental benefits.

Mike

kyrill · « **Reply #101 on:** 30 Jun 2008, 09:14 pm »

diesel was NEVER invented to enhance motordriving in the sense of enjoying the drive or sport
ONLY economical reasons lie behind it

LM · « **Reply #102 on:** 30 Jun 2008, 09:49 pm »

Interesting Mike,

I need to check but I don't think it's available in the Australiam Subaru lineup as yet but no doubt it will be if it's not there now.

I agree from a driver of old point of view Kyrill but there is a certain beauty in the greater thermal efficiency of diesel. We need to be careful here or we'll get Hugh going on large marine diesels and he'll be totally sidetracked from hifi component R & D.

AKSA · « **Reply #103 on:** 30 Jun 2008, 10:43 pm »

Yeah,

Don't get me started - industrial, and particularly marine diesels, are a real hobby of mine.....

In this modern world of solar and fuel cells, turbines and electric motors, the reciprocating diesel engine remains the most efficient form of tractive power known, with some engines (the Wartsila-Sulzer RT82flex) delivering as high as 51.5% thermal to mechanical conversion with complete reliability. Gasoline engines are nearing the end of the line in their development, and very soon we will start seeing medium range electric cars as Lilon battery technologies come on line.

I agree with Kyrill to a degree, but we are being overtaken by events, and economy will soon outweigh performance considerations.... and there are some continents where diesel is far more expensive than gasoline because indigenous crudes are just too light - like Australia.

Cheers,

Hugh

Seano · « **Reply #104 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 11:11 pm »

I've been a diesel driver for years and think very highly of an engine that can do quite so much on so very little. My own little VW ute dates from 2001, is longer, wider and has better load capacity than a Land Cruiser ute while also weighing in at nearly two tonnes......and yet putters around town using around 8L/100km, less than our own Subaru Forester.

Having driven the Discovery3 with its 2.7L turbo diesel V6......I'd love to try the twin turbo version found in the hi-spec Jaguar & Peugeots....

Despite this.......diesel makes no sense as an vehicle fuel when it is 20 cents per litre more than vanilla unleaded. The margin is better when compared to the hi octane unleaded required by many new Euro cars but still not brilliant. Add to that the often higher service costs........and the economics don't make much sense.

That said I'd still compare by driving the diesel & petrol versions of any car I was interested in......because sometimes the petrol engines aren't a patch on the TDi's....especially in the smaller cars. And bigger cars, a medium sized TDi can be relentless in a way that can only be obtained by a monsterous petrol V8...which the car may not be available with....which is outstanding for a long distance tourer.

......but I can't even afford a new car.

AKSA · « **Reply #105 on:** 1 Jul 2008, 11:45 pm »

Seano,

A resounding agreement.......

You'll be impressed to see I've updated NEWS on the website......

Recently I drove my cousin's turbo C5 Citroen and at 110 kph on the open road it was peerless, the relentless thrust you speak of EXACTLY describes the feeling, no question at all. A most perceptive comment......

Kyrill,

Driving conditions in continental Europe are very different to Australia. We have a huge country with generally good roads and intercity distances of 1000 kms are common. Yet our government has discovered radar guns, and on the pretext of driver and passenger safety (we have a very good record, in fact) the roads are cynically used for revenue, so we have speed nazis at every stretch. If you are caught doing 63kph in Melbourne, 3 kph over the speed limit, you are fined $US160 with demerit points added to your licence. So people here do not speed, and the open road speed limit is 100 kph, rigidly enforced. So, in this country we appreciate the marvellous bottom end and midrange of a turbo diesel, where in Europe, because of the unrestricted autobahns, you appreciate the top end, which is apparent in almost every automobile design from all the EU countries.

I don't think I agree that there is no pleasure in driving the new diesel autos; I think they are just superb. My only criticism is the truck-like noises at low speed, which remind me of my days on a farm with the primitive agricultural diesels of the fifties and sixties, and the unpleasant smells and residue when filling up at the fuel station. If you get diesel on your fingers, it quickly appears in the car, and louses up the cabin with it's terrible smell.

I'm reminded of a wonderful saying amongst IT consultants: 'Never make categoric statements, as someone will ALWAYS prove you wrong'.

Please forgive me, I'm being a smartarse again......

Hugh

kyrill · « **Reply #106 on:** 2 Jul 2008, 08:35 am »

ha ha

compare apples with apples "So, in this country we appreciate the marvellous bottom end and midrange of a turbo diesel," this with the marvelous power of a 3.V six cilinder turbo gasoline motor. volvo, Audi and others

i rather enjoy their "bottom" at cruising speed than the sophisticated truck engine

AKSA · « **Reply #107 on:** 2 Jul 2008, 09:52 am »

Kyrill,

Do you like turbo gasoline motors? I do not, they are very peaky. The WRX of Raptor's that I drove recently was one of the best I've experienced - it went like my motorcycle - but there wasn't much power below 3000rpm as Neil also noted. This meant you had to keep changing gears, which is great for a young guy, tiresome for old buggers like me (and you???). Yet putting an auto on a turbo gasoline engine seems somehow to be missing the point. Also, there's no getting away from the fact that turbos on gasoline engines run much hotter than diesel turbos, and this means more maintenance, and the spooling up is irritating.

I've just built and tested two LF100s and I'm knackered..... time for a tipple

Cheers,

Hugh

EchiDna · « **Reply #108 on:** 3 Jul 2008, 12:37 pm »

seano get that blardy rangie back on the road

or convert it to an Isuzu 4BD1

sports cars? bleh... gimme my 88 landrover 110 anyday!!

all torque and no action in here

sorry for the atrocious pun!

Seano · « **Reply #109 on:** 3 Jul 2008, 10:58 pm »

I would dearly love to!! However, too many other priorities lie ahead of it......a bathroom and other currently underway reno's come to mind.

I'm not inclined to throw a 4DB1 at it...........too heavy for starters - the front suspension would need even more new bits!! And since this thing will probably be a toy then I might as well treat it like a toy. So I'm thinking of swapping in a 4.6L V8 or stroking the existing V8 out to 4.2 with electronic ignition and hooking up to a 5 speed rather than the curent four speed.....too many choices.

One thing is for sure......it's going to lose a few body panels and a few inches in length.

Must admit though.......I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of electricity being involved somewhere.

Regardless, we are likely talking a couple of years before I address the Rangie. A shame I know but that's the way things stand in scrub at the moment...

Tliner · « **Reply #110 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 01:26 am »

Seano,

I had a Rangie which finally ran out of grunt. The engine was repleced with a P76 donk. Just a bolt in job. I used two Volvo 240 series fuel injection units, one for each bank. The economy was improved by 5-8 MPG and the torque was much better. The rangie was finally rolled and the motor is now in a Bolwell Nigari that competes in club races at various curcuits, Winton especially.

Cheers,

Laurie

AKSA · « **Reply #111 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 01:56 am »

Now you guys know why Laurie and Hugh get along so well.......

Hugh

EchiDna · « **Reply #112 on:** 4 Jul 2008, 01:48 pm »

volvo's? P76's? or club racing?

I'd like to see that in a cressida

toy rangies should be v8 powered I guess... go the stroker when funds allow Seano!!

AKSA · « **Reply #113 on:** 5 Jul 2008, 12:03 am »

Nah,

You'd be better off to put in the L76 6 litre Gen IV from GM - I saw one in a box recently here in Melbourne and the owner, a race car driver, told me it cost him $4K, BRAND NEW and complete.....

AND they are light (all alloy), fuel injected and coil over ignition, very small, at 270Kw with awesome economy. A smaller motor physically than the 1UZ-FE Toyota 4 litre - I measured it. Would easily fit into the Cressida engine bay.

This is probably the most refined small block which will ever be made. Hybrid's are just around the corner, and the engines will rapidly shrink and specialise for constant speed operation.

Cheers,

Hugh

Seano · « **Reply #114 on:** 6 Jul 2008, 10:59 pm »

Have to admit that a GM motor has crossed my mind. Bang for buck and all that. What scares me off is the electronics that are required.

It's well known that the Prince of Darkness lords over any Rover product......what is not well undestood is that the Dark Prince is so ingrained in the Rover psyche that he can work his magic on wiring of virtually any heritage unless a total exorcism is conducted. I've seen this done two ways - the first involved the car burning down, the second way involved replacing the entire loom......neither strikes me with much joy.

I have experienced the joy (nay downright fear) of the 4.4L P76 engine. I had one in my Stage 1 with twin Strombergs and Genie Headers and an erratic approach to auto electrickery......imagine a Series 3 Land Rover (where one is seated on foam blocks) capable of winding its own speedo out one and a half times whilst relying on what were essentially four small camp ovens filled with wooden blocks to slow you down. I had a wonderful time once charging past Bucketty whilst trying to keep a BMW 5 series V8 in my rearview mirror....old mate was most alarmed that his flash new car was stuggling to punch its way past a clapped out looking house brick........he made it eventually but at a highly illegal speed.......

Tliner · « **Reply #115 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 01:18 am »

Seano,

You must have had a very easy time with the Rangie's electric department. 'Cause Murphy was in full time residence 24/7 in mine and I don't think that he would have any time for any other Rover.

I had my P76 motor (new) worked over by Repco during their last days of their association with Brabham. The Repco/Brabham version was the penultimate performance motor in the evolutionary chain of the Buick 3.3 motor. The P76 motor was the last in that line. My motor had all the balancing treatment, Mahal pistons and other goodies, exhaust extractors and a completely redesigned inlet setup etc which enabled it to put out 337 bhp at 4500 rpm and 482 bhp at 7500rpm. It was a very smooth motor which could pull out tree stumps from idle. At idle I frequently attempted to start it as it was so smooth and yet it was very spirited motor and one could crawl along in peak traffic at over 35 degree temperature without a problem. I finally rewired the Rangie as I got tired of wondering where the frizzling wire smell was coming from. During the 70's there was not much on the road that could blast off the Rangie in a straight line. No fun at all in the corners though!

Ah, those were the days.

Laurie

LM · « **Reply #116 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 01:51 am »

You blokes have me quite worried now. I never realised that one had to to have V8 Rangie qualifications or experience to own or operate Aspen kit.

I don't really want to have to join another forum or buy any Lucas canned smoke in future.

Tliner · « **Reply #117 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 02:02 am »

Nah, not worth moving to another forum you'll more than likely get some other form different "experiences"???

I just jump very quickly from the chair and follow the cooking plastic smells eminating from the system. The memory must kick in from a bygone era. One thing I have found is that the LF100-11 can't be stopped by a complete short at the output terminals due to a wonlky plug. Called burning the system in?? The other amps I have would have ended in the council collection by now if they were treated like that.

Laurie.

AKSA · « **Reply #118 on:** 7 Jul 2008, 04:27 am »

Lyn,

I really don't think with your pristine 1972 Aston DBS you need to be concerned about club membership....

Most V8s are not as powerful as the 4 litre Vantage motor anyway!!

Cheers,

Hugh

AKSA · « **Reply #119 on:** 22 Jul 2008, 01:15 am »

Quiet again. Harumphh...... this should change.

I see Tapis crude is down $US15 in the last week in Singapore. So much for moving to green energy, huh? Anyone for lead acid batteries? Now they are REALLY green

Something I saw recently on a forum post which might amuse:

The beatings will continue until morale improves........
I think this existential statement does have some contraindications, particularly where child rearing or animal training is concerned. Any amusing comments?

Hugh