NOISY IN HERE!!

Jens · « **Reply #40 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 08:10 am »

Quote from: Seano on 18 Jun 2007, 11:07 pm

Jens.........are you sure your room size estimate is correct? 45 sqm is not unusual for a medium Australian loungeroom these days and Hugh's listening room is certainly bigger than this - I'd guesstimate around 65 sqm...........and I found the audio setup quite deafening.

The other thing I forgot to point out was how effortless the Vsonics seem to be to drive. The LF100 remained basically cool to touch despite 20 minutes of enthusiastic volume management from Hugh (I never got near the remote!!) - something that impressed me no end.

My listening room is approx. 5 (w) x 8 (l) metres, and at one end there is a "notch" where the room widens out to approx. 7 metres.

However, it's not room size in itself that creates the need for multiple drivers. First of all, listening distance is approx. 6 metres (this makes a huge difference). Secondly, my system response is more or less straight down to 20 Hz (electronically controlled). Thirdly, the room is fairly well-dampened, and fourthly - and not least - I tend play large orchestral works and organ pieces at lifelike volumes.

I've had several two-way systems in my room over the years, and although many of them have sounded extremely well, they all sounded like midgets (soundwise) compared to my current speaker system.

The speaker system also doubles as fronts for my home cinema setup, often creating sofa-rocking soundwaves

andyr · « **Reply #41 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 09:46 am »

Quote from: Jens on 19 Jun 2007, 08:10 am

My listening room is approx. 5 (w) x 8 (l) metres, and at one end there is a "notch" where the room widens out to approx. 7 metres.

However, it's not room size in itself that creates the need for multiple drivers. First of all, listening distance is approx. 6 metres (this makes a huge difference).

The speaker system also doubles as fronts for my home cinema setup, often creating sofa-rocking soundwaves

Hi Jens,

It's hard to imagine how you could be sitting 6m away from your speakers in an 8m room?

Are you sure you have your speakers and listening position in the optimum place, relative to your room dimensions?

My "music room" is about the same size as yours ... 5.2m wide and 8m long. With a pitched ceiling in the centre which goes up to about 5m - so it encloses a large volume!

Yet my listening distance (from speaker to ear) is about 3.7m!

I have set mine up in 1/5ths and 1/3rds for best bass reproduction ... ie. the centre of my bass drivers is 1/5th of the room length away from the front wall (1.6m). My seating position is 1/3rd into the room, at the other end. The centre of the bass drivers is also 1/5th the room width away from each side wall ... and they point directly at my ears.

If you have 6m from speaker to ear then I would've thought either your chair or the speakers - or both - are too close to the wall?

Regards,

Andy

Jens · « **Reply #42 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 12:46 pm »

Hi Andy,

As with everything else in life, there are compromises. Speaker and listening positions are what is possible, since my wife and I also like to use the room for other purposes than audio.

With my system, the problem of positioning does not really give that many problems. The "notch" in the room I mentioned is at the speaker end of the room and seems somehow to change things quite a bit

Please bear in mind that even with the same measurements etc., no two rooms are alike. Each room has its own peculiarities. I've helped quite a few friends with their setups and measuring their rooms. Sometimes results are somewhat baffling, but so far I've always been able to help

I now have electronic room control of the bass section, which irons out the minor problems that there were in my room, but even before I had that, it actually worked quite well. The electronic control has cleaned up things a bit, though, by alleviating problems with some room modes.

The speakers are of the closed type, so the problems that arise in many rooms with reflex speakers do not exist, and speaker fronts are approx. 1 m from the rear wall. Likewise, the listening sofa has it's back approx. 1 m from the rear wall. It's a very good trick not to sit too close to the rear wall when listening.

Obviously, when correcting for room anomalies, I have the measuring device placed in the sofa, in the exact position/height where my ears would otherwise be

andyr · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: Jens on 19 Jun 2007, 12:46 pm

Hi Andy,

As with everything else in life, there are compromises. Speaker and listening positions are what is possible, since my wife and I also like to use the room for other purposes than audio.

The speakers are of the closed type, so the problems that arise in many rooms with reflex speakers do not exist, and speaker fronts are approx. 1 m from the rear wall. Likewise, the listening sofa has it's back approx. 1 m from the rear wall. It's a very good trick not to sit too close to the rear wall when listening.

Yes, life is generally a never-ending compromise but 1m for both speakers and ears means they are both at a 1/8th node, lengthwise. And you didn't mention the position of the speakers, widthwise.

Can you do a simple experiment ... move your listening chair out so it is at 2.6m from the back wall and see how much better that sounds?

Of course you need to adjust speaker toe-in to match how they normally are, relative to your ears.

Regards,

Andy

Jens · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 Jun 2007, 09:22 pm »

Quote from: andyr on 19 Jun 2007, 08:21 pm

Quote from: Jens on 19 Jun 2007, 12:46 pm
Hi Andy,

As with everything else in life, there are compromises. Speaker and listening positions are what is possible, since my wife and I also like to use the room for other purposes than audio.

The speakers are of the closed type, so the problems that arise in many rooms with reflex speakers do not exist, and speaker fronts are approx. 1 m from the rear wall. Likewise, the listening sofa has it's back approx. 1 m from the rear wall. It's a very good trick not to sit too close to the rear wall when listening.

Yes, life is generally a never-ending compromise but 1m for both speakers and ears means they are both at a 1/8th node, lengthwise. And you didn't mention the position of the speakers, widthwise.

Can you do a simple experiment ... move your listening chair out so it is at 2.6m from the back wall and see how much better that sounds? Of course you need to adjust speaker toe-in to match how they normally are, relative to your ears.

Regards,

Andy

Andy, I've done lots of experiments. But there is no way that my listening position can be moved very much (because it is a room for other things than audio). You may think me a novice, but I've been building speakers for the last 30 years .... and have experimented with rooms and positions for just as long.

Nodes or not - it doesn't matter when you have full control over in-room bass behaviour via a speaker management system. Besides, the speakers are actualy 1.2 metres from the rear wall - the figures I mentioned were just approximations to give a general picture of the setup. And just to put things into perspective, I can tell you that the remark that everyone who comes here to listen to my system invariably makes is: "Wauw man, have you got that bass under control!"

And - the people who come here are not novices, either. I've had several of the reviewers of the Danish High Fidelity magazine here along with other people, who have very expensive and well set up systems. Many leave shaken, both mentally and physically!

LM · « **Reply #45 on:** 20 Jun 2007, 09:55 pm »

Hugh,

Just re-reading your comments about Simon and his value to you for feedback when developing and voicing your VSonics. Sounds like someone with a fair experience of their character that could make some really interesting comments.

May I be so bold as to suggest a VSonics listener sticky thread with perhaps Seano’s comments to start and/or beg/ask Simon for some comments as well. I for one would love to read his thoughts. I myself find it very hard not to be somewhat clinical in my descriptions and that approach doesn’t necessarily emphasise what a revealing, sweet and musical kit design you have developed. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard a more accurate 2 way speaker.

Perhaps you could lead off with some of their general design/philosophy details. I certainly am a fan of transmission line and the drivers look so good their story absolutely needs to be told.

What do you think?

AKSA · « **Reply #46 on:** 22 Jun 2007, 07:36 am »

Sure, Lyn, will ask Simon, but he's always loathe to post or even make comments.

I think being as objective as possible is always the best way. Subjective comments are probably good for advertising copy, but must be laced with a conservative outlook. Perhaps I'm guilty of overstepping the mark myself!!

There is always the difficult issue of knowing exactly WHEN to release the product, too; I'm never quite sure, but it's definitely easier when someone else does the designing!

Thanks for the comments, thread coming up.....

Hugh

AKSA · « **Reply #47 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 11:50 am »

Subject says it all........

Been fiendishly hot here in southern Oz, little doubt there is climate change, drought is upon us, Melbourne's reservoirs are just below 40% and we are at the start of summer......

Ah, Merry Christmas to all AKSA owners, past, present and future.

Boring in here, we really gotta keep talking!!

Cheers,

Hugh

Grumpy_Git · « **Reply #48 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 01:18 pm »

SShush musical bliss!

Nick.

Builder Brad · « **Reply #49 on:** 14 Dec 2007, 09:23 pm »

Hi Hugh,

Its been a while....

firstly I would like to wish you the very best regards your forays into new territories!

I am certainly interested in the Aspen/Boulder duet!

I have a quick question regarding ASKAs and Orions that I know keeps popping up.

You may remember that I use an AKSA55 N+ with lowered PS rails to provide 25 watts to drive the tweeters in my Orions. I have been running the second set of tweeters in parallel for the last 6 months with approx 1.75 ohms in series with the rear tweeters but now want to connect both tweeters in parallel with the AKSA amp. I saw your comments regarding the 55 watt Lifeforce with the Orion+ and the option of reducing the voltage to give more headroom with this low impedance load, does this apply to the AKSA that I am using as I have already reduced the PS voltages, or is this a no go?

Out of interest what are the potential problems with running such a low impedance with the AKSA amps, will I just blow the output ICs, or will this affect the audio quality?

Cheers Hugh.

Brad

Sparkie · « **Reply #50 on:** 15 Dec 2007, 11:42 pm »

Hi All,

Yesterday I called in on Laurie who is back in residence and heard the prototype Vsonics. We had plenty of noise in the room. Not noise really. but wonderfully reproduced music.

Laurie has been at them again. This time he bi wired them, I believe for the first time. Every aspect of evaluation has been lifted a few notches at least. The bass appears to have additional slam (down to the low 30hZ range) but with a musicality about it that you would think that the musos are performing is in the room. In MHO it is useless to verbalize on about the speakers performance because they do it all with such aplomb.

Hugh, I hope that I am not stealing your thunder but these speakers are too good to hide for much longer.

Regards,

Sparkie

bhobba · « **Reply #51 on:** 15 Dec 2007, 11:54 pm »

Hi Sparkie

Quote from: Sparkie on 15 Dec 2007, 11:42 pm

Hugh, I hope that I am not stealing your thunder but these speakers are too good to hide for much longer.

They sure as hell deserve to be better known. Pity they are only available as kits, at least initially. If Hugh can somehow arrange for them to be available pre built then I suspect a wider audience awaits.

Thanks
Bill

AKSA · « **Reply #52 on:** 16 Dec 2007, 01:25 am »

Sparkie,

I've been looking into felt lining, but it was $84 a linear metre, a ridiculous cost, so back to using carpet.....

The bi-wireable option was always available, we designed for it. I'm pleased Laurie has had such good results, frankly I did not expect it.

This has gone on long enough...... I must get them out the door.

I will definitely make them available in Oz fully built.

Cheers,

Hugh

bluesky · « **Reply #53 on:** 16 Dec 2007, 11:18 am »

I have just been catching up with some reading on the Aksa forum and noted Hugh's comments about those mathematically inclined at DIYaudio and provide a quote from Charles Darwin regarding mathematicians whom he described as.....

"A blind man, searching a darkened room, for a black cat, that isn't there"

After trying to wrestle with some mathematical concepts whilst trying to learn about speaker formulas recently like the square root of minus one etc....I couldn't have said it better myself!

Bluesky

bhobba · « **Reply #54 on:** 16 Dec 2007, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: AKSA on 16 Dec 2007, 01:25 am

I will definitely make them available in Oz fully built.

Great to hear Hugh. I would be interested except I have decided on the new SP tec Timepiece-mini and given a down payment.

Thanks
Bill

bhobba · « **Reply #55 on:** 16 Dec 2007, 11:06 pm »

Quote from: bluesky on 16 Dec 2007, 11:18 am

I have just been catching up with some reading on the Aksa forum and noted Hugh's comments about those mathematically inclined at DIYaudio and provide a quote from Charles Darwin regarding mathematicians whom he described as.....

"A blind man, searching a darkened room, for a black cat, that isn't there"

After trying to wrestle with some mathematical concepts whilst trying to learn about speaker formulas recently like the square root of minus one etc....I couldn't have said it better myself!

Bluesky

Hmmm. Being a bit of an applied math freak I understand your frustration. It can take a while to get your mind around some of the more subtle concepts such as so called 'imaginary numbers'. In truth they are no more imaginary than say irrational numbers. Since an irrational number is arbitrarily close to a rational number it is imposable to tell by measurement an rational number from an irrational one. They are simply introduced for theoretical convenience - by introducing them you can assume continuity and take derivatives etc. The same with imaginary numbers - they are introduced purely for theoretical convenience. And that convenience has a lot of practical value, since it allows you to get to a first cut of a design on which listening tests can commence faster than without using it.

Thanks
Bill

AKSA · « **Reply #56 on:** 2 Mar 2008, 01:50 am »

I would forgive anyone for thinking I'd taken a balloon journey around the world - the adventures of Jasper Morello, no less..... But I'm still here, wrestling with daily life, agonising over circuit design, chatting over coffee with friends and visitors, trying to meet my email obligations, juggling family issues, particularly the ill health of my elderly Mom.

I am very busy with new orders, one in particular from Robert in NYC. Hi Robert - a big order, really forcing me to focus, thank you again. The weather in Melbourne has turned to autumn, the best time of the year, just wonderful for long, pleasant walks and exciting, visceral rides on the bike.

I've just discovered Mariza, the Fado exponent from Portugal. Just astonishing, beautiful singing, heart wrenching - recommended. She is the Edith Piaff of Portugal, frankly, I think she is better.

Cheers,

Hugh

andyr · « **Reply #57 on:** 2 Mar 2008, 02:39 am »

Quote from: AKSA on 2 Mar 2008, 01:50 am

I've just discovered Mariza, the Fado exponent from Portugal. Just astonishing, beautiful singing, heart wrenching - recommended. She is the Edith Piaff of Portugal, frankly, I think she is better.

Cheers,

Hugh

Yes, a gorgeous voice!

If you like Fado, you'd better start listening to the Greek equivalent ... from the dives of Athens in the 30s ... Rembetika!

Regards,

Andy

T-Bone · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Mar 2008, 05:08 am »

Hi Hugh,

Is there a thread that lists the frequency response chart, impedance chart and spl of your new t-line speak? Type of crossover, 1st 2nd or 3rd order? Tweeter type? Min and max watts per channel? Recommended room size for this speak? MSRP? Or is all of this info TBA at release?

Cheers,
Brad Kizer

AKSA · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Mar 2008, 05:58 am »

Hi Brad,

I will try to include the Xover Pro charts, or one or two of them, in the website advertising, which I'm doing in the next couple of days. I have some kits now prepared ready for sale and will be contacting those interested who have reserved one first up.

The information you seek is very comprehensive, and generally only measureable in a lab. Thousands of dollars are spent deriving it, and while I can supply the design briefs and charts, the anechoic measurements are at this stage not possible.

However, that said, Tymphany were interested enough to send a German tech manager to Oz to listen to it. After he heard it, he commissioned Laurie to develop a TL subwoofer, now completed and delivered, and in Copenhagen Tympany split open the enclosure (built with 25mm MDF!!) using a 1200W amp playing 747 takeoffs recorded just off the runway at liftoff. Needless to say, they have now braced the box with 38mm composite MDF, and placed a 500Kg weight over the enclosure to hold it down in the anechoic chamber during testing. Indications are that it's holding; that's two 12" XLS Peerless drivers in isobarik configuration, BTW, and specially fan cooled voice coils.

The VSonics use the same TL design topology. They are pretty good.....

Cheers,

Hugh