Looking at a new TV sooner than I thought. Help!

budyog · « **on:** 18 Feb 2007, 06:54 pm »

Well it looks like I am going to be diving into a new TV sooner then I thought! Right now I have an old Samsung 40”LCD Tantus TV. It has worked fine, but starting to show it age. I do not watch any sports, just regular TV now and DVD movies and concerts. I am considering upgrading to a digital box from my cable company, but I do not like the idea of another box!
My DVD/CD player is the Onkyo SP-1000 with a HMDI output, whatever that means. I am considering all the options but want to stay around the $1300 to $1800 and 46 to 52 or so inches.
Any thoughts on these?
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18326/TelevisionDetails/WD52531.html?cid=379
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18326/TelevisionDetails/WD52631.html?cid=380
Their also seems to be some good buys on Samsung, but over on AVS it looks like the Mits get a better rating. These 2 above are in my price range. I do not understand the 720,1080 i & p stuff. Do I care?
I have never owned a Mitsubishi product before. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated

zybar · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:06 pm »

Would you consider a plasma or DLP?

What is your room like in terms of light?

How far do you sit from the tv?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, it is hard to recommend something.

George

ctviggen · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:10 pm »

i stands for "interlaced" and p for "progressive". Basically, the way "regular" (interlaced) TV works is that a single frame of video is actually split into two "fields", one which contains the even numbered lines and one which contains the odd numbered lines. There are 30 frames per second, or 60 fields per second. So, one frame in an interlaced system is produced by first drawing a first frame (say, the odd lines), then drawing the second frame (the even lines). In a progressive system, each line is drawin every time, meaning that there are 60 frames per second.

The 720p means that there are 720 lines, each line drawn for a frame. The 1080p means that there are 1080 lines, each line drawn for a frame. Personally, I would get the 1080p if it's not too expensive relative to the 720p. The highest definition signals you'll find will be 1080p, and you'll be able to take full advantage of HD-DVD or Bluray, should you choose to go that route. With 720p, your TV will have to scale the signal from 1080i/1080p to 720p, which means that some resolution will be lost. On the other hand, should you not care about sources such as HD-DVD and Bluray, regular TV and regular DVD will probably look about the same on each set. HDTV will be about the same, as most is broadcast in either 720p or 1080i (as maximum resolutions), and I've found that the noise and blockiness in these signals far outweigh the actual resolution. Now, if you get a pristine signal with no noise or blockiness and broadcast in 1080i, then the 1080p should produce a better picture, but this depends on the processing used to convert 1080i to 1080p (as compared to 1080i to 720p).

budyog · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 18 Feb 2007, 07:06 pm

Would you consider a plasma or DLP?

What is your room like in terms of light?

How far do you sit from the tv?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, it is hard to recommend something.

George

The WD52631 is a DLP
My room is a little bright, not a big deal because I can get/make a black curtain to take care of that and we have had the Samsung for about 4 years without any gripes. We also do most of our viewing at night. Look at my gallery and there are pictures of my setup. We sit about 10 or so feet away and not a large viewing angle. I am/would consider a plasma. Just like the light weight of the other options.
Thanks

budyog · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:23 pm »

Thanks ctviggen for explaining the P & I and 720 & 1080. This

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18326/TelevisionDetails/WD52631.html?cid=380

looks to be possibly a winner for around $1600! I will have to go and take a first hand look at it at a local retail store. Any other thought options would be welcome!

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:30 pm »

I am very partial to the Panasonic plasma tv's.

Great picture at a very good price.

You could get a 50" at the edge of your price range.

George

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:32 pm »

If you are a Costco member buy your new TV there. You can keep it for years and if you have all the packaging they'll take it back and give you a 100% refund. That's for real!!! I seen it done and not only with TV's but just about everything they sell.

Cheers
Charlie

budyog · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 18 Feb 2007, 07:30 pm

I am very partial to the Panasonic plasma tv's.

Great picture at a very good price.

You could get a 50" at the edge of your price range.

George

I like and have read nothing but good things about Panasonic. I will take a look at them also.
This seems like a nice one!

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97744&catGroupId=24973&modelNo=TH-50PX6U&surfModel=TH-50PX6U&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 18 Feb 2007, 07:32 pm

If you are a Costco member buy your new TV there. You can keep it for years and if you have all the packaging they'll take it back and give you a 100% refund. That's for real!!! I seen it done and not only with TV's but just about everything they sell.

Cheers
Charlie

I am not a member of Costco. I am a member of Sams, but will look into Costco too! Thanks

StevenACNJ · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 08:44 pm »

Like George said the Panny plasma is hard to beat.

Check out Visual Apex. They are a great online dealer. I bought my Panny plasma from them. They are an AVS Forum sponsor.

They have the 50" Panny plasma on sale for $1875 (+ shipping) including a five year warranty.

Check it out @ the link below:

http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?chPartNumber=TH-50PH9UK&MFR=Panasonic

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 18 Feb 2007, 07:32 pm

If you are a Costco member buy your new TV there. You can keep it for years and if you have all the packaging they'll take it back and give you a 100% refund. That's for real!!! I seen it done and not only with TV's but just about everything they sell.

Cheers
Charlie

Actually, they will be changing this policy very, very soon in regards to electronics.

Way too many people bringing back tv's every 6-12 months or longer.

George

budyog · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Feb 2007, 09:19 pm »

Quote from: StevenACNJ on 18 Feb 2007, 08:44 pm

Like George said the Panny plasma is hard to beat.

Check out Visual Apex. They are a great online dealer. I bought my Panny plasma from them. They are an AVS Forum sponsor.

They have the 50" Panny plasma on sale for $1875 (+ shipping) including a five year warranty.

Check it out @ the link below:

http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?chPartNumber=TH-50PH9UK&MFR=Panasonic

Thanks Steve, but with the additional cost of shipping, tuner and other stuff. It is getting a little over my budget!

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Feb 2007, 03:38 am »

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=150945&AID=10375042&PID=249294&URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.circuitcity.com%2Fccd%2FproductDetail.do%3Foid%3D150945

I have the 60" big brother and it is an excellent tv!!

If you buy it tomorrow you get it at $1699 shipped to your house.

George

budyog · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Feb 2007, 06:58 pm »

It was printed in my local paper today that DLP produces better picture then LCD and Plasma at a lower price!
It also says that 1080p will probably never be broadcast, HDTV and turner boxes can’t receive 1080p and the networks broadcast 1080i (CBS and NBC) or 720 p (Fox and ABC).
Also that it is unlikely we would see a difference between 1080i, 720p or 10980p.
Any thoughts?

ctviggen · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 Feb 2007, 07:21 pm »

I bet that you can perceive a difference, but you'd need to compare using HD-DVD or Bluray. As for LCD v. DLP v. Plasma, I'm not sure. Personally, I think plasma is still the best.

zybar · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 12:26 am »

I have LCD (higher end computer monitors up to 24"), plasma (Panny), rear proj (Sony SXRD), dlp front proj (Marantz), and lcd front proj (Panny) in my house and the best picture depends on what I am watching (i.e. the source material) and how well I can control things (light, seating position, etc...)

The overall best picture, currently comes from the rear proj (SONY 60" 1080P SXRD) when the room is light controlled and I am sitting right in front of it.

If I can't really control the light and I need to sit off axis some, the Panny plasma is the best choice.

If I want a very big image in a totally light controlled environment, the front pj's are the way to go. I currently rank them behind the Sony since I don't have my Firehawk screen mounted at this time and I am projecting directly onto the walls.

In order to get the best picture possible on any type of monitor or tv, you MUST get it professionally calibrated!! DO NOT underestimate how big an impact this will have on your picture quality.

As for 1080p vs. 1080i...yes, there is a difference, but you need the proper source material to be able to see it. If you aren't going to get a 1080p source and material, you will be fine with not getting a 1080p monitor or tv.

George

wshuff · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 12:50 am »

Quote

The overall best picture, currently comes from the dlp rear proj (SONY 60" 1080P SXRD)

The Sony isn't a DLP, it uses SXRD, Sony's implementation of LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon). DLP, as the commercials say, produces its picture with a chip consisting of tiny mirrors that pivot to reflect light, creating a gray scale image. One major difference between current DLP rear projectors (as well as most front projectors) is that they are one-chip models, meaning that the color is produced by means of a spinning color wheel. The Sony SXRD (as well as the JVC HD-ILA -- also an LCoS design -- and LCD tvs) use three chips, one each for the red, green and blue, meaning that they don't need a color wheel to produce the color. Why is that important? Because one artifact that can potentially pop up with a one-chip DLP display is the so-called rainbow effect. Not everybody sees rainbows. I for one never saw one for the longest time. But once I saw one, I saw many. Sort of like those optical illusion pictures. Once you see the picture the first time, you can't help but see it more. Whether rainbows are a problem for a person is up to the individual. For me they would be annoying.

Which is not to say that LCoS or LCD are inherently better. All of these sets have their own quirks. DLP, for instance, generally can produce a truer black level than LCD or LCoS, and can therefore produce better contrast in scenes that have both dark and bright together. I have a JVC HD-ILA, and as much as I like it, the fact is that it just can't make a deep black. Newer sets are supposedly better, but I don't think any of them can come close to the good ol' CRT.

There are going to be drawbacks to any display. It can be daunting, but AVS Forum has lots of good information that might help you identify the particular limitations of the various types of displays so that you can pick the one that has the least amount of compromises for your particular situation.

Of course, keep in mind that many (most?) people will be thrilled with the picture from any new set. I guess it depends upon how picky you are. The people that frequent AVS tend to be pretty obsessive.

Whatever you get, Zybar's recommendation for a professional calibration is a good one. I'm finally in a position where I can have a pro tweak my set, and I'm looking forward to the improvement.

Woodsea · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 12:58 am »

I can tell a difference between 720p and 1080i. I am going to be getting the Oppo981 for my 37inch LCD for 1080p and by a long DVI cable for my projector from my old Samsung upconverting DVD player.
Get a 1080p as it will be much more future proof than 720p, and you won't be clamoring for the next best thing for at least 3 years. When BR and HDDVD are in everyones home, you don't want to be grumbling in front of your blacker than black 720p set

zybar · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 01:05 am »

Quote from: wshuff on 20 Feb 2007, 12:50 am

Quote
The overall best picture, currently comes from the dlp rear proj (SONY 60" 1080P SXRD)

The Sony isn't a DLP, it uses SXRD, Sony's implementation of LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon). DLP, as the commercials say, produces its picture with a chip consisting of tiny mirrors that pivot to reflect light, creating a gray scale image. One major difference between current DLP rear projectors (as well as most front projectors) is that they are one-chip models, meaning that the color is produced by means of a spinning color wheel. The Sony SXRD (as well as the JVC HD-ILA -- also an LCoS design -- and LCD tvs) use three chips, one each for the red, green and blue, meaning that they don't need a color wheel to produce the color. Why is that important? Because one artifact that can potentially pop up with a one-chip DLP display is the so-called rainbow effect. Not everybody sees rainbows. I for one never saw one for the longest time. But once I saw one, I saw many. Sort of like those optical illusion pictures. Once you see the picture the first time, you can't help but see it more. Whether rainbows are a problem for a person is up to the individual. For me they would be annoying.

Which is not to say that LCoS or LCD are inherently better. All of these sets have their own quirks. DLP, for instance, generally can produce a truer black level than LCD or LCoS, and can therefore produce better contrast in scenes that have both dark and bright together. I have a JVC HD-ILA, and as much as I like it, the fact is that it just can't make a deep black. Newer sets are supposedly better, but I don't think any of them can come close to the good ol' CRT.

There are going to be drawbacks to any display. It can be daunting, but AVS Forum has lots of good information that might help you identify the particular limitations of the various types of displays so that you can pick the one that has the least amount of compromises for your particular situation.

Of course, keep in mind that many (most?) people will be thrilled with the picture from any new set. I guess it depends upon how picky you are. The people that frequent AVS tend to be pretty obsessive.

Whatever you get, Zybar's recommendation for a professional calibration is a good one. I'm finally in a position where I can have a pro tweak my set, and I'm looking forward to the improvement.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I fixed my post above.

George

avahifi · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 02:37 am »

PlasmaBay often has outstanding values and is reliable. I got a new 26" Sony Bravura from them for hundreds less than local sources and it came quickly and in fine shape.

Frank Van Alstine

budyog · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Feb 2007, 03:21 am »

Thanks everyone for all you information. I am not a home theater guy. Just watch TV and movies in stereo! I went to a couple retail places today, check out this one I can get for $1700

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/j/i/18326/TelevisionDetails/WD52631.html?cid=380

A little more then I want to spend and a little bigger then I would like. but it looked very nice. Then at Best Buy they had this,

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS4676SXXAA.asp

Wow, this was very cool set! $1348 and very thin. Only 10.6 " deep and very sleek looking. Brand new model. They make it in a 50" They look smaller the others because of the slim design. They don't have the 50" in stock yet.

I really like the 46" It is high on my list but it is only 720p. I probably will only have it for 4 or 5 years, but the Mitsubishi mentioned above is 1080p. Just not sure what to do about that yet.

The plasmas are not in the price range for the size I would like to get. 46" to 50"