[TONEPUB]

Actually, that's a great idea, and we have a dealer
here in the Portland area that is doing that!

Dusty Vawter from Channel Islands, just installed
a system in the waiting room at his local BMW
dealer and he's getting buzz there too!

Our local McIntosh dealer started carrying Leica
cameras and they are getting a ton of crossover
from photo enthusiasts!

It's all good...

[nathanm]

I think the emphasis has to be focused almost entirely on selling the idea of active listening.  If a person is not open to that why bother with all the pricey equipment?  If you push hi-fi with a gear-centric angle it just looks like a bizarre novelty which costs a fortune.  Unfortunately I haven't a clue about how you can promote the notion of sitting still and concentrating on anything in today's world.  There's just too much other stuff around.  I think the people who are "destined" to pursue hi-fi audio will pursue it and the rest are going to be swooped up by the mainstream.  If you can sit a person down in front of a hi-fi system and they experience music in an entirely different fashion than they're used to then they're hooked.  Then they might want to buy stuff and set up a separate room.  But if not, they'll just tell you "Wow, that sounds nice..." and think "But I don't care" to themselves.  I wish I was one of these people, because then I could actually be 100% satisfied with listening to headphones!  And earbuds no less! *shudder*

[Steve Eddy]

I think the emphasis has to be focused almost entirely on selling the idea of active listening.

That depends on what you mean by "active listening." If you mean that in the sense of the stereotypical "audiophile" who spends significant amounts of time sitting down between a pair of speakers listening intently, examining every little fly speck of what they hear, then I don't think that's at all the emphasis that has to be focused on and think it would be something of a fool's errand to even try.

I think many people actively listen, they just don't necessarily do it while slouched in a chair between a pair of speakers. And I think many of these people would be attracted to higher quality audio. But instead of simply trying to sell them the same stuff that's sold to audiophiles, which I think would only have the most marginal success if any, manufactuerers need to think outside the "audiophile" box and play on the broader market's turf.

To that end, I think the first thing that needs to go is the notion of separate components. Most folks don't want to have to deal with that shit if they don't have to even if it's just a CD player, an integrated amp and a pair of speakers.

I've given this some thought for some years now and I think the best way to bring higher quality audio to the broader market is by bringing back the old console stereo concept. Everything in a single, self-contained unit, though not as large and bulky as the old units back in the 50s and 60s and with modern styling.

Just have to plunk it down next to a wall, plug in a single AC cord and you're off and running.

se

[nathanm]

I define active listening as sitting centered between a pair of speakers and doing nothing else besides listening to music.  Single-tasking; meaning no computer, books, household chores or other things occupying your time.  This activity seems to be exclusive to audiophiles.  To me that is what is necessary to justify spending money on all the gear.  If you're not fully involved and concentrated on the sound I don't see the need to spend a lot.  Of course, I haven't even followed my own advice on that!     For me the attraction is the illusion of imaging and that really only happens when you're sitting in the middle.  This also makes things outsider-prohibitive in itself as only one guy truly is getting the full show.

I don't think active listening necessarily means going into hardcore sonic analysis, that would be the next step beyond active listening, 'critical' or 'obsessive' listening perhaps.  I think it's challenging enough to get people to want to focus on a single task.  With movies it's no problem, but ask people to just listen and they get antsy.  The mainstream gear is all about multi-tasking and portability.  With audiophiles sometimes you might need a forklift!  I've always thought of hi-fi as ritualistic.  Your gear and the music is like an altar which you center yourself in front of and offer a prayer of your full undivided attention.

[michaelavorgna]

I think the best way to bring higher quality audio to the broader market is by bringing back the old console stereo concept

Sign me up! That creates all kinds of possibilities.

[Daygloworange]

To that end, I think the first thing that needs to go is the notion of separate components. Most folks don't want to have to deal with that shit if they don't have to even if it's just a CD player, an integrated amp and a pair of speakers.

I've given this some thought for some years now and I think the best way to bring higher quality audio to the broader market is by bringing back the old console stereo concept. Everything in a single, self-contained unit, though not as large and bulky as the old units back in the 50s and 60s and with modern styling.

Just have to plunk it down next to a wall, plug in a single AC cord and you're off and running.

In most practical terms, yes, I would agree that that would be a great start in getting more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world. But I think most heavy duty, over the top audiophiles are incessant "hot rodders". Good is never good enough. I think it's a human nature aspect that you could never remove, or de-program. So ultimately I don't think it would work. They would quash the notion of an all in one system having any real merit, and the industry would support their notion.

They tried to do that with the "mini systems" a while back, and it didn't work. I know that none of those systems were worth a darn, but, I still see a parallel.

Cheers

[Steve Eddy]

I define active listening as sitting centered between a pair of speakers and doing nothing else besides listening to music.  Single-tasking; meaning no computer, books, household chores or other things occupying your time.  This activity seems to be exclusive to audiophiles.

Yes. But I would define active listening a bit more broadly than that. Unless you're reading, writing or having a conversation with someone, there are many things you can be doing that I would consider active listening while not being slouched in a chair between a pair of speakers.

Standing up shakin' your booty, or air guitaring or drumming for example.

High quality audio can easily be a part of a larger gestalt. Most especially high quality speakers. You don't necessarily have to do the electronics to the nines, but even the most average person can discern the difference between high quality speakers and bog standard speakers.

se

[Steve Eddy]

In most practical terms, yes, I would agree that that would be a great start in getting more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world.

I think you miss the point. I don't want to get more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world. I say leave the audiophile world for those relative few who will ever have any desire to become audiophiles.

But I think most heavy duty, over the top audiophiles are incessant "hot rodders". Good is never good enough. I think it's a human nature aspect that you could never remove, or de-program. So ultimately I don't think it would work. They would quash the notion of an all in one system having any real merit, and the industry would support their notion.

Just as I have no interest in getting more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world, neither would I ever try and market such a thing as the console concept to audiophiles. So I could care less about any notions audiophiles may quash in that respect.

They tried to do that with the "mini systems" a while back, and it didn't work. I know that none of those systems were worth a darn, but, I still see a parallel.

Who's "they"?

se

[Steve Eddy]

Sign me up! That creates all kinds of possibilities.

Yes. With the speakers and amplifiers essentially forming the foundation, it could be configured many different ways, from something as simple as a CD player, to a media server with a modest flat panel screen hanging on the wall above it.

se

[TONEPUB]

That's why I think an apple iMac with a pair of great powered speakers
could be really cool!!

Lots of alternatives...

[Steve Eddy]

By the way, as far as I've seen, the $20,000 Ferarri art.engine from David Wiener Ventures comes the closest to this concept.

se

[Daygloworange]

Who's "they"?

You know, the big names, Sony, JVC and so on...

I think you miss the point. I don't want to get more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world. I say leave the audiophile world for those relative few who will ever have any desire to become audiophiles.

The original poster was asking about the John Q's, so I was answering in that context.

Just as I have no interest in getting more of the average John Q Public into the audiophile world, neither would I ever try and market such a thing as the console concept to audiophiles. So I could care less about any notions audiophiles may quash in that respect.

Fair enough. Again, I'm just saying that I agree with the idea of a high quality, good sounding console system would be a great idea, but I think that it would have a long hard uphill battle to beat the stigma I was alluding to. But I could be totally wrong. Take the Squeezebox for example.

Cheers

[Steve Eddy]

That's why I think an apple iMac with a pair of great powered speakers
could be really cool!!

Lots of alternatives...

Quite so.

se

[Steve Eddy]

You know, the big names, Sony, JVC and so on...

Oh. Well I see mini systems being sold all over the place. So it certainly seems to have worked for them.

The original poster was asking about the John Q's, so I was answering in that context.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were answering in the context of my post seeing as that's the one you seemed to be replying to at the time. 

Fair enough. Again, I'm just saying that I agree with the idea of a high quality, good sounding console system would be a great idea, but I think that it would have a long hard uphill battle to beat the stigma I was alluding to.

But that stigma is one of audiophiles, who I would never market such a thing to in the first place, so I don't see that there's anything to beat in that regard. The broader market that I'm looking at hasn't such a stigma.

se

[Daygloworange]

Fair enough. Again, I'm just saying that I agree with the idea of a high quality, good sounding console system would be a great idea, but I think that it would have a long hard uphill battle to beat the stigma I was alluding to.

But that stigma is one of audiophiles, who I would never market such a thing to in the first place, so I don't see that there's anything to beat in that regard. The broader market that I'm looking at hasn't such a stigma.

Personally, I'd love to see it happen, and I hope it does. This synergy of components stuff is a lot of hard work. 

Some killer speakers, and a 20 pounds of "whoa mama" in a 5 pound bag driving them with good sound, would be too good to be true. 

Cheers

[TONEPUB]

I just got the big Janzsen electrostatics in today.  All powered with subs built in.
All it needs is an iPod or Squeezebox and you are ready to rock!

Ill check back in tomorrow when they are set up!!

[JLM]

One aspect that attracted many of us 40+ audionuts that doesn't work today is the geek factor.  Audio was high-tech in the 60s and 70s.  Now it's laughable compared to game consoles, PC's, HT, or even cell phones.

IMO musicans don't need high fidelity playback.  The whole reason for hi-fi is to recreate the experience more fully.  If you know what a cello sounds like, you only need a hint of it to imagine the rest.  Musican's know what a cello should sound like.

Convenience must play into the formula for marketing success.  Tubes, tonearms, and batteries won't sell to first timers, but wireless access, remotes, use of the internet, and iPod connectivity would.

Yes, we're all expected to be constantly multi-tasking.  So much so that catching a snipet of high fidelity playback is a distraction from reading, surfing, talking on the phone, etc.

The longer we're inside, the harder it is to have an outside perspective.

Another challenge is product line evolution.  Most successful companies start with modest products and build up to more expensive ones.  Honda for instance started with a $2000 Civic that cost roughly 1/4 of the average US salary, now a new (and much better) Civic costs 1/2 of the average US salary, and its the cheapest car they offer.  As the company expands expectations rise and overhead grows.  Not to pick, but as an example Omega started out just a few years ago selling $300 - 800 speakers.  Now their speakers are better but range in cost from $650 to 2,000.

Squeeze Box is heading in the right direction.  It connects to the internet and the beloved PC.  Via the PC an iPod can be interfaced.  It's wireless and uses a remote.  It's inexpensive and offers a taste of the high-end.  They have an active on-line presence.  Just add powered speakers (that can be small and still provide a most satisfying sound) for a simple, good quality solution.  But that's probably too easy, simple, and removed from "audiophile roots" to interest us old audio farts.   

[JEaton]

One of the things that vexes component manufacturers is how to get more people involved in this world.

I know a lot of people are scratching their heads about it, and Im curious, have any of you had luck
dragging your freinds into our world?  (or their wives too, for that matter)

None.  But to tell you the truth, I have no great interest in doing so.  I don't need a partner to listen to audio.  Any of my friends are happy to listen along with me, but more often I prefer to listen by myself.  If I host a party, the stereo is on, but it may as well be a system built from closeouts at Target during such occasions.  My friends generally have mediocre, poorly set up audio systems, and all of them are used primarily for movie viewing.

I seem to see a big gap between the people that just love music and those of us that like good
hifi systems as well.  TONE, Stereophile and TAS aren't a hill of beans compared to Rolling Stone,
Spin, Paste, Gramophone and the others.

How do we get them from there to here?

Unless you're a manufacturer or an audio publication profiting from those manufacturers, who really cares?  I've seen the argument about the high-end industry disappearing.  I don't buy it.  There will always be numerous audio designers with a high enough opinion of themselves that they'll be turning out gear.

[TONEPUB]

So I see you aren't big on spreading the love around....

If the manufacturers that make this stuff and the publications
that profit from said manufacturers cease to exist, you won't
have toys to play with in your solitude.

But it's still a somewhat free world for a little while longer.

[Daygloworange]

I haven't tried to get anybody into audio. I have a lot of interests and hobbies that are not mainstream per se. I don't impose my will upon others. I just do my own thing. But some people get influenced by what you do and can all of a sudden get into a new hobby that way. A lot of people have gained interest in what I've done with my system since getting into the 2 channel hobby. About half a dozen or so have gone out and updated their own systems.

Even further than that, I'm not a communal person. Not in the slightest, yet, I really like hanging on AudioCircle. Probably because I've learned so much, and continually learn more. Some of the people I've met since I've joined AC are really cool as well, so that's a bonus.

Cheers