[TONEPUB]

Just so you know, there are two components to TONEAudio.

We have the regular magazine, that we distribute as a PDF, six times a year.
It comes out in Feb, April, June, Aug, Oct and Dec.  We usually publish on the
5th of the month, give or take a day.  The PDF is about 35 mb, so for those
of you with a broadband connection, it should only take a minute or two to
download.

As of Jan 1, we just added a new component, TONEAudio Online in which
we will offer more information in a traditional web format, with a twist. Our
reviews are formatted in mini PDF documents that will open a seperate browser
window.  When finished, just click the window shut and go back to the website.

Our magazine will for the most part, feature the higher end of the spectrum with
it's reviews and the website will concentrate on more entry level to mid priced
gear, though it's not in stone.  You might see a $300 table in the magazine
and a 50K pair of speakers on the web now and then, we like to mix it up!

There will be no duplication of content, so consider the magazine and the
website two seperate places to get info!  We will start to update the web a lot
more often between now and summer, so there should always be something
new to read at TONE between issues!

[JEaton]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but publishing on the web in PDF format makes no sense whatsoever.  The bulk of PDF documents that one finds on the web are converted from print format, such as brochures, technical documents, manuals, etc.  Publishing a 50+ page magazine in this format is ridiculous.  Do you expect people to print these things out and read them on the train or something?  Who regularly prints out documents that are dozens of pages long?

You have the opportunity to work within a medium that offers endless creative possibilities and with it you publish a very long, linearly formatted document that is suited only for print.  I really don't get it and I never will.

If the web is so foreign to you, take on a couple of high school kids as interns. You could easily find a few kids that have been publishing on the web for years and they'll soon get you up to speed.

[Steve Eddy]

Do you expect people to print these things out and read them on the train or something?

Actually when I first discovered TONEAudio a few months ago, I sucked down all the issues, put 'em on a little flash drive, plugged it into my laptop, kicked back on a nice comfy sofa, and spent several enjoyable hours reading through them.

se

[bpape]

Yup.  It's pretty handy to have on the laptop when waiting in an airport or whatever with no network connection.

Bryan

[TONEPUB]

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but publishing on the web in PDF format makes no sense whatsoever.  The bulk of PDF documents that one finds on the web are converted from print format, such as brochures, technical documents, manuals, etc.  Publishing a 50+ page magazine in this format is ridiculous.  Do you expect people to print these things out and read them on the train or something?  Who regularly prints out documents that are dozens of pages long?

You have the opportunity to work within a medium that offers endless creative possibilities and with it you publish a very long, linearly formatted document that is suited only for print.  I really don't get it and I never will.

If the web is so foreign to you, take on a couple of high school kids as interns. You could easily find a few kids that have been publishing on the web for years and they'll soon get you up to speed.

Well, I can't tell you how much I always appreciate being told that I don't know what Im doing...

Actually TONE was never intended to be printed. One of the biggest problems in my life before I started
this venture was that I have a ten foot high pile of car magazines, hifi magazines, camera magazines, etc, etc. 

Now that broadband internet is a reality for more households than not, we made the concious decision to create TONE as a PDF, because most people get their information online.  The reason we chose PDF instead of just an open website was because you still can't achieve the richness of format that we have with TONE on a website.

As I get most of my favorite magazines as PDF's now through Zinio, it appears that this is a format that is here to stay.  And I seem to have 50 thousand people (TONE"s readership) that completely disagree with you.

Also for the high school kids and their expertise, I spent the last 20 years of my life in the advertising business working for clients like Chevrolet, Porsche and Ducati to name just a few. I am also a consultant to companies like Adobe, Epson, Roland, Microtek and Olympus, so I would like to think that I have a bit more expertise than a group of high school kids.

We have also included web content to give our readers more information to digest between issues. While we wish it could be as visually complex as the PDF issues, it's just not possilble yet, but will be in the years to come as the technology advances.

We actually designed TONE to be read from a screen from day one.  Now tat most people have anywhere from a 20 to 30 inch flat screen monitor on their desktops, and laptops have advanced tremendously, it's really easy to read on a screen and again was designed that way.  All of the type fonts and associated design elements were made to be read on a screen NOT on a printed page.

Im sorry you don't grasp the forward thinking of what we are doing.  (no waste paper, no caustic chemicals to print it, etc, etc.)  Not to mention that by distributing the magazine this way, we
have been able to get a larger circulation than The Absolute Sound in one year.

Last but not least, the darn thing is FREE.

If you don't like it, don't read it.  No one is holding a gun to your head....

[Steve Eddy]

No one is holding a gun to your head....

Right. Instead you should be holding it against a cute dog's head. It worked for National Lampoon and it works for me. Try it sometime.



se

[JEaton]

Well, I can't tell you how much I always appreciate being told that I don't know what Im doing...

I'm sure you know what you're doing.  You know how to create print publications.  Just that it doesn't work all that well on the web.

I've downloaded a couple of the magazines and sifted through them.  There's some fine stuff there, but it's very tedious getting to it all.  I don't tend to read a magazine from cover to cover in a sitting, so it's unlikely I'd ever get through an entire issue.  But with a simple web site I'd easily read all the articles that interest me and skim many of the ones that don't.

You're original title of the thread is most telling.  You ask what's the difference?  I'd say there is no difference.  TONEAudio is an online publication, so why you'd intentionally make most of your content available in only a gigantic download, I can't understand.

In another thread you mention your increasing cost of bandwidth due to the size of the magazines.  That's another good reason.  Somewhere else you mention moving music reviews to the front of the magazine.  Even better.  I'll bet many people don't make it to the end of the magazine, so you realize that the beginning is most prominent and most read.  The concept of beginning and end doesn't even apply to the typical web site.

Just some advice.  Take it or leave it.  But consider that you might have 100,000 or 150,000 readers instead of 50,000 if the content was more accessible.

[TONEPUB]

That's why we now have web content in addition to the magazine.  Honestly, the main comment I get
is that people tell me they read it from cover to cover.  I don't always read my copies of Stereophile
TAS or Hifi + from cover to cover.  However, knowing that my back issues are on the hard drive of
my laptop, I usually end up reading all of it, just as I did with a print magazine.

We drew our line in the sand with the current format.

The reason we are moving the music to the front, honestly is an experiment.  We feel that the music
is why we all pursue hifi in the first place, so we are trying to stand out further from TAS and Stereophile
by doing this.

If it's not well recieved, we will go back to the current format.

As our rate of downloads has grown steadily every month, I think we will probably have
100K readers by next year's CES.  After 34 years, TAS has 32K and Stereophile has 85k.

So, until we get a lot bigger indication that what we have doesn't work, it stays put.

However, that's why we have the forum as it is always nice to know what our readers
think, good or bad.  This is why we never put a letters column in the magazine, because
in the print mags, 3% of the magazine you PAID for, goes to stuff like this.

Sorry we're not your cup of tea. Hopefully, you will enjoy our other content
in the web format.  We just launched this at CES, so we will be updating monthly
for a while and then weekly by summer, with the newest stuff at the top...

[JoshK]

I was just curious, is the online sub seperate from the standard (fee wise)?  I ask because I am purchasing a subscription now.   

[TONEPUB]

No, no, it's really not a subscription per se.  We really just see it as a donation.
Only neccessary once if you are so generous...

We really appreciate it!

[JAMn Joe]

Jeff,

I can see some merit in what JEaton is trying to say. While I think you've done an outstanding job with ToneAudio Magazine at all levels there are some limitations or difficulties with reading a PDF document that's laid out in portrait mode on most computers.

You come from a publishing background where the very best monitors are a way of life. Contrary to what you may believe, most people do not own 20-30 inch monitors. By day I deal in the computer world and only wish that was the case. More importantly, even those of us that do have 20-30" monitors have the flat screens that are based on a 16:9 format and they don't rotate. I am in fact in the process of looking at a Samsung that does just so viewing full page PDF's can be done without scrolling up and down to read a full article with multiple columns.

Your on-line publication is laid out identical to a magazine. That works great if I have a printed copy that is a full 8-1/2 by 11" sheet of paper. Even on my 23" wide screen I have to scroll up and down to read a full column and then get to the other side. I think personally it would be easier to read if there was no double columns and I could just scroll down through the article. Maybe lay it out for widescreen viewing.

I love the magazine but often wish I could just purchase it like TAS or Stereophile because it would be easier to read. I also think the magazine is that good that it should be in print!!! You would reach a whole other segment of the market that doesn't use the internet. There are a few out there that still fall into that category believe it or not.

The great thing about having the publication on-line is that I can increase the font size or zoom. As some of us get older we become more visually challenged and the computer provides us with some tools that aid in that area. However, in a layout similar to regular print magazines that just means more scrolling.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I do understand the frustrations and maybe some of the comments that are resulting from it. There is no faulting content or quality, it is the best of the best. Maybe the limitation right now is just current technology and as things progress you can continue to improve layout that takes advantage of that.

I know I will not let the current issues with reading the content keep me from enjoying your great magazine! Keep up the great work!

[JoshK]

If I might make one suggestion that is tomorrow ready, it is delivering it in a format compatible with palm computers and hybrid phones.  I am currently searching for a phone that will allow reading of computer documents on the go.  That I think will reach today's and tomorrow's generations. The format will take some thought though and pdf isn't the most friendly for this application.

[JohnR]

To Jeff: you may wish to consider making something like a yearly or six-monthly printed anthology available via online purchasing channels using PoD (Print on Demand) technology. Without much additional investment, these could become available on Amazon and other online book-selling outlets. I believe I would purchase those myself -- to be quite honest, I don't have time or patience to deal with downloading and reading or printing large PDFs.

Lightning Source is the premier PoD provider; I have an account with them and would be happy to provide additional info on my experience with them. I have only used their B&W service at this point, color PoD is fairly new to them. Lulu.com is another option, although their printing rates are higher (about double).

[TONEPUB]

Those are some good ideas and we will definitely look into them.

The main reason however that we did not go into print is the cost for a startup.
If I were to produce TONE as a print magazine at the level of quality that it is
in print, it would be ten bucks an issue and my ad rates would be up there with
Stereophile and TAS.

No offense, but this industry can't afford another print magazine like that.

Unlike the other online things, we pay all of our writers nearly what they would
make at a print pub.  It costs about two bucks an issue to print a copy of
Stereophile and about another two bucks an issue to mail it.  Multiply that
by 12 and you know those guys aren't making the money from the subscriptions,
so it has to come out of someone's pocket...

So for now, we will stay electronic and Im sure we will undergo some changes over
the years.

However, these have been some very constructive ideas and I will look into the
POD option, I do think it's a good one.  I do know that when I was looking into
self publishing a book, color rates were very high.  I am guessing that to print
3 issues of TONE, it would probably be 30-40 bucks a throw!  And color wise,
POD quality just isn't that great yet.  But this electronic world is always in flux,
so Im not going to say never to anything.

You guys will be the first to know!

Thanks again for all the input....

[JohnR]

To Jeff: I had not read the rest of the thread before posting. Believe me,  I do understand that you can never please everybody. You just have to make the decisions that make sense to you and keep going. Just one thing:

I spent the last 20 years of my life in the advertising business working for clients like Chevrolet, Porsche and Ducati to name just a few

Here's mine (presently unregistered, very much shame on my part)

[JohnR]

I do know that when I was looking into
self publishing a book, color rates were very high.  I am guessing that to print
3 issues of TONE, it would probably be 30-40 bucks a throw!  And color wise,
POD quality just isn't that great yet.

I agree absolutely. Don't use colour PoD if colour accuracy or cost is important.

[BradJudy]

Now tat most people have anywhere from a 20 to 30 inch flat screen monitor on their desktops

Jeff, I don't even know what to say about this statement - it's so far from accurate that it makes me laugh.  Heck, I'm a full time IT guy and I don't even have a 20" LCD at home.  I'll give you that 20" LCD monitors are the cool thing to buy if you've got the disposable income, but it's years until you could say that "most" people have them. 

[TONEPUB]

Well, I've been hard pressed to see much smaller than a 19" for sale
at most of the computers around me for quite some time now...

Even when you go to Dell, they want to hook you up with at least a 19"

Just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I just checked Comp USA's website.
The smallest monitor they even have is a 17"  I called my local store
and they don't stock them anymore.  Manager told me the smallest they
carry is 19" and they have a number of them for under $150, so Im
not sure what you are talking about disposable income. 

I called Best Buy too, same story.  I don't know where you would even
buy a monitor smaller than 17 inches.  And even most of the 22's I looked
at were about 350.

Heck, even my 70 year old mom has a 21 inch LCD on her computer
and she's pretty tight with money.

I still review a lot of computer hardware for the photo side of the world
and HP told me the other day they are phasing out everything below
20" within the next 90 days....

Granted Im sure there are some people with older hardware out there
but we can't be compatible with everyone...

I even took a quick survey of my most non techie friends before we
launched this and even two years ago, no one I knew had a small screen
anymore.

In years, I doubt you will even be able to buy much smaller than a 24 or a 30
if prices keep dropping at the current rate....

[BradJudy]

Yes, current sales lean toward 17-19" LCD monitors, but 19" LCD monitors are the same resolution as the 17" ones, so you're displaying the same area - you do photo stuff, you know that.  You have to get into 20"+ to get higher resolutions. 

Most people don't buy new computers every year or two, they buy them every four years or so and the drop in LCD prices has been a pretty recent phenomenon.  Additionally, the trend toward notebook computers has been very strong over the past two years, leaving a LOT of computer owners using 14-15" screens (yes, some of them are 17" and some of the 14-15" ones have a decent resolution, but not the majority of them).  Most of these owners do not also invest in a large LCD monitor to attach the notebooks to. 

BTW: I'm not saying anything about whether your publication is readable on typical computers, just your statement about the majority of computers having 20-30" monitors. 

I do have to say that for someone who asks for feedback, you've pretty strongly opposed most of it given in this thread.  I find the publication interesting, but I have quickly lost interest in this thread given your reaction to feedback. 

[TONEPUB]

Can we get back to having some fun?

Hey John, nice Ducati!!!  I miss riding quite a bit.
No time anymore, but maybe when I retire...