High efficiency speaker recommendations?

bikes and beats · « **on:** 6 Feb 2007, 02:50 am »

I'm looking for feedback on good speaker ideas that will work well with a low powered amplifier. I'd like full range and the Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris and Augie Bass drivers look promising. I've heard Omegas and they're pretty good, but I think I want to keep this under $1K. Anyone know if Hemp Acoustic drivers will be for sale here in the US anytime soon?
Thanks in advance!

JoshK · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:16 am »

I don't know what the Bas audio promethius goes for in the kit form, maybe $2k? That is over your mark, but that would likely be #1 on my list if I were to buy a commercial hi-eff speaker. It looks like a pretty well thought out design and remarks on its sound are quite good. It might be worth it to save, since it adds an amp to the woofer so your flea amps and such don't have to power the bass section, which makes more out of the small powered amps.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:17 am »

Full range, works with tiny amps, under $1k. That's gonna be a tall order.

How small of an amp do you mean? How low do you need the bass to go? Powered, separate bass a possibility? Are you looking for OB specifically? DIY an option? How complex of a build? Horns intriguing?

chadh · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 04:13 am »

This one from Bob Brines comes in at $895 for the fully assembled product: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/FT-1600_MkII/Main.html
It's 92db/w/m - I don't know just how efficient you need your speaker to be.

I use the Omega Super 3 XRS, very happily. 93 db/w/m, plays 40Hz-18kHz, and might get even better when Louis starts using his new 4.5" hemp driver. Price: $850.

Then there are The Horns from The Horn Shoppe for $800: http://www.thehornshoppe.com/index.html

Chad

S Clark · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 04:19 am »

If you have a dozen watts or so, check out Danny Richie's AV-3's. Hard to beat for under $12-1500. I think they are rated at 91+ dB

bikes and beats · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 05:13 am »

Quote from: chadh on 6 Feb 2007, 04:13 am

This one from Bob Brines comes in at $895 for the fully assembled product: http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/Pages/FT-1600_MkII/Main.html
It's 92db/w/m - I don't know just how efficient you need your speaker to be.

I use the Omega Super 3 XRS, very happily. 93 db/w/m, plays 40Hz-18kHz, and might get even better when Louis starts using his new 4.5" hemp driver. Price: $850.

Then there are The Horns from The Horn Shoppe for $800: http://www.thehornshoppe.com/index.html

Chad

Thanks for the advice!
Do you use a Sub with your Omegas?
I heard these speakers at a loical dealer and was really impressed. In fact I do recall the bass being adequate. I think taller speakers like th Horn Shoppe design might fit betterin my room than the XRS's on the floor and angled up. I thought the Hawthornes with their coaxial design and 96db efficiency were an attractive solution, that's all I'd be willing to see if I could get an OB design to work. I think I have enough room to the rear wall, not sure. I'd like to get a 15~30 watt tube integrated or maybe a T-amp and want appropriately simple and easy to drive speakers. I think the crossoverless designs are "purer' but then there has to be less at the frequescy extremes if there's only one driver, right?

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 08:22 am »

Well, there are these:

http://www.kharma.com/_images/downloads/jpg_hq/grengr.jpg

They more than meet the efficiency criteria, at 100 dB/W @ 5 meters, but they don't make your budget by a factor of 1000.

Pretty low WAF, though

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 10:48 am »

B & B,

Unless you're in a large room or listen loud enough to break leases or get the police knocking at your door, 30 wpc will not require highly efficient speakers. My rule of thumb for enough power is to reach a continous 105 dB output. With two channels and a typical (roughly 2,000 cu. ft) room that works out to needing about 105 dB (speaker efficiency rating plus amp gain). So if the speaker is rated at 92 dB/w/m, you'd be looking for at least 20 wpc (13 dB of gain). Listening nearfield or using a powered sub would only help in this regard.

Single driver speakers provide a coherency that other speakers cannot match, especially nearfield. By definition they are "active" meaning one driver per channel of amplification, which is another huge advantage. And there's no crossover to screw things up, especially near the precious midrange. But there's no free lunch. Deep bass is very hard to come by. Output is limited (but to sane levels). Extreme high frequencies need help (whizzer cones, etc.) or beam like a flashlight. The magic of single driver designs is in covering the essential 80 - 8,000 Hz range with the simplest/purist of solutions.

Both the Omega XRS and The Horn sit pretty low and can get lost behind furnishings. In my experience The Horn can sound very nice, but very fussy regarding balancing room bass gain. Anything Louis builds sounds wonderful. It amazes me how good the relatively cheap Fostex FE127E driver (that the Super 3 and XRS use) sounds.

OB's provide a completely different listening experience, trading pin-point imaging with room filling (actually more natural) sound. My brief experience with OB's tell me that you need lots of open space for them to work their best (minimum 15 ft wide by 20 ft long room with the speakers sitting 5 ft out into the room). The Hawthone Iris gets down to 40 Hz without the complication and expense of the Augie (which can be hard to believe until to see the 15 inch driver and hear it).

We'd need to know your musical taste before making specific recommendations.

fajimr · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 01:44 pm »

B & B.. I can't offer anything from experience but since I've bought (and not assembled) a 41hz t-amp, I've been also investigating high efficiency speakers. Here's a link to a site to a speaker that was referred to somewhere in my investigations:

http://www.nirvanaspeakers.com/nirvana.html

at around 150 USD, not including the cabinet (although plans are included)... I thought it would be an interesting and low cost option to try out some single driver speakers. I'll be following this thread with some interest- thanks for posting.

jim

ruleof72 · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 02:00 pm »

I would definitely give the Hawthorne Audio Silver Iris/Duets with Augie a solid

I went through the process of looking for speakers for the house we were buying. It has a great room of about 25Wx19Dx20H. I listened to many different speakers, found out about Hawthorne and took a "flyer" and ordered the Duets. I've had them about 6 weeks now and the sound is fantastic and room filling, I couldn't be happier

Darrel does a great job and even built an oak surround for the plate amp used to power the Augies. At $1300 or so(including plate amp) they are a bit over your stated budget, but worth it in my opinion. You can always order the drivers and build your own baffle to save some $$$'s. That wasn't a choice for me since I'm totally inept when it comes to building stuff.

robert1325 · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 02:20 pm »

I've had my hawthorne SI's for a week now, and am using them in my 12x12 ft room.

Amp is the little trends ta-10 and source is a bolder modded squeezebox...

All I can say is WOW ! what a killer cheapo setup this is, can't believe I once spent double this money in a local Hi-Fi shop .... It play everything, rock , jazz, classical.... Just great !

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=35356.20

The sound is very involving and , full... no bad SS harshness to be found in this setup.

robert1325 · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 02:28 pm »

The Hawthorne's are very different from normal boxxed speakers... I had chinese mini-monitors wich where very good but sounded like they wanted to show you every fault in the recording.

The hawthorne's take a different approach, they let you listen to the music! Even grating 80's recordings ( Jesus mary chain) sound fine.

bikes and beats · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:07 pm »

JLM: I listen to all kinds of music. Mostly mellow rock, some electronica. Lota of Jazz and vocals. I'll be using this setup for HT too.

Robert, your feedback is encouraging! This is exactly the setup I envison. So do you use a Sub? Can you send me a photo of your speakers?

Thanks!
-Mike

Brad · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:13 pm »

Horns, Omegas, Brines, Hawthornes - all are good choices and it will be a matter of which one suits your taste/ear/music the best.

robert1325 · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:20 pm »

There's a link in my first post, scroll down and you'll see pictures of my setup... I have yet to build baffles , I'm to busy enjoying the music

I don't use a sub, but without proper baffles I find there's enough bass, not room shaking but very clear and realistic... Get the SI's and a trend, save some money and spend it on your source... Very important to.

With my dvd player the sound is half as good....

chadh · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: bikes and beats on 6 Feb 2007, 05:13 am

Thanks for the advice!
Do you use a Sub with your Omegas?
I heard these speakers at a loical dealer and was really impressed. In fact I do recall the bass being adequate. I think taller speakers like th Horn Shoppe design might fit betterin my room than the XRS's on the floor and angled up. I thought the Hawthornes with their coaxial design and 96db efficiency were an attractive solution, that's all I'd be willing to see if I could get an OB design to work. I think I have enough room to the rear wall, not sure. I'd like to get a 15~30 watt tube integrated or maybe a T-amp and want appropriately simple and easy to drive speakers. I think the crossoverless designs are "purer' but then there has to be less at the frequescy extremes if there's only one driver, right?

I use no sub. But circumstances force me to keep the XRSs close to the wall. I don't have any problem getting bass production, although I don't listen to any music that produces a lot of very deep bass.

For what it's worth, I use pair of 40w chip amp monoblocks. My source has volume control, and only has a 1v output: but if I use the source direct to amps, I can't stand to push the volume up too high. In fact, I generally use a pre-amp explicitly to reduce the volume. This is in a room that's about 23x15, with an 11x7 corner cut away (so the room is L-shaped).

Chad

ZLS · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 04:44 pm »

aa I will simply say this, if you were impressed by the XRS's with the Fostex Driver; you will be blown away with the XRS's with the Hemptone Driver!!

robert1325 · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 04:47 pm »

I think all the speakers mentioned in this thread are on a very high-level performance wise, It all comes down to your taste... For me it was a very easy choice looking at the price and shipping costs for someone living in europe.

The fostex drivers are know for detailed/fast sound , the hawthorne's are more laid-back....

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 05:08 pm »

Before I decide to build my own high efficiency horn speakers I have listened to Selah Audio speakers and thought they are a good sounding speakers for low watts amps but Selah speakers are quite expensive to me . Therefore, I just got the vintage audio components like JBL D131 woofers, JBL LE175 horns and Jensen RP-302A tweeters and some of vintage oil caps to build the crossover. Based on JBL L100 I made myself the cabinet. The speakers do not look decent like nowadays conventional speakers but they sound decent and very synergistic with my SET 2A3 amp. I will never look for another speakers in at least another 5-10 years.

Regards,
Tan

robert1325 · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Feb 2007, 05:14 pm »

WOW tanchiro, You've got a very nice setup there ( signature)

How do you like your TVC?

High efficiency speaker recommendations?

S Clark