Design Award

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #260 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 15 Feb 2007, 05:17 pm

OK, I want the whole dirt on the B&W 805 monitor, everything I need to know to be able to figure out whether I'll want it. Where is it?

At your fingertips: for a lot of it.
d.b.

macrojack · « **Reply #261 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 07:18 pm »

Can you describe what a speaker looks like in a thousand words or less? Be sure to include color, size, shape, location of components, any recesses or bulges, etc. It might very well be possible, given enough time, but a picture is worth a thousand words. And so is a listen. No amount of data can substitute for actual experience.
You guys suggesting that ignoring specifications and measurements leaves me lost in the woods are barking up the wrong tree. I choose what I like and say "damn the numbers". For design purposes, this kind of measurement is no doubt very helpful but for my purposes, it is just so much malarkey.
Science has afforded us many wonderful things and many horrible ones also. It is a tool whereby we can extend our capabilities. It is not god, however. It is merely a system by which we can extend our capabilities.

Is there any way in which science can improve our judgement?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #262 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 07:31 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 15 Feb 2007, 07:18 pm

Is there any way in which science can improve our judgement?
quote]/

I believe the term for that is education.
d.b.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #263 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 07:38 pm »

I agree, macro. My point was merely if the science has condensed the human experience down to graphs it has done so silently.

The only publication I know of that even tries to correlate measurements with sound quality is Stereophile and these assessments are often miles apart. It's so bad the authors comment frequently that they like something so much they're worried it will measure badly and reflect badly on them. To the contrary, I say this reflects badly on the measurement protocol.

Despite repeated requests, no superior methodology has been proffered. Rather, oblique references are repeatedly lofted upon the wings of speculation of greater knowledge. Saying the tools are out there to prove a point but then not providing that proof suggests that the information is really not there at all.

Macro, I agree with you that there is no substitute for our living receptors. I am being told there is a graphic substitute that lots of folks know about and use to design our stuff. I want to see it. If it's all the same stuff Stereophile uses, I've heard all I need to hear. If there's more, I'd like to know what it is and where I can find those specs on the gear I want to buy.

eric the red · « **Reply #264 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 07:39 pm »

Quote from: WEEZ on 15 Feb 2007, 01:47 am

but I've got a hard time believing that an orange dot on a Timex clock is very scientific. It goes against my possibly flawed logic...

Weez-If you scroll down this page of the AK CLC thread, the orange and red dots are 'splained by AK member pgrannes and CLC inventor Geoff Kait
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=78343&page=8&highlight=clever+clock

Daygloworange · « **Reply #265 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 08:06 pm »

I'm sorry, but this Geoff Kait guy is way out there for me. Apparently this CLC was around 10 years ago originally, before he tweaked on it. I haven't ever heard of anyone actually using this thing before this thread.

Even the foil that he talks about. He doesn't quantify anything. All he says is, is that it will sound better. What does that mean? If it sounds better, then there is something happening somewhere, and can be measurable. Unless it's supposed to do something within your own mind, but not in the room. That's paranormal.

Bottom line, if this stuff had any credibility, he'd be marketing this stuff to the military or to the medical establishment, and not such a small demographic as audiophiles. This is the stuff of infomercials.

Cheers

rollo · « **Reply #266 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 08:07 pm »

macrojack,
Right on!Sorry if I offended you earliar.Boys will be boys.
Anyway when interested in a new component I take it home and listen to it in my system.If it sounds better to me after an extended time it stays if not on to the next.
I remember a long time back when my scientist buddy told me about how well the new line of Sony and Sansui measured.Wow these must be great.Well I don't think you need the details they sucked.
Today it is still midfi gear.Although better they still suck.
I would rather have a component designed by a person who is a musician and engineer than just an engineer any time.It has been stated that speaker design is an art form as well as an engineering feat.What is the artform?Could it be listening or just luck?

Macrojack could you shed some light on this.
rollo

eric the red · « **Reply #267 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 08:13 pm »

Since this IS a CLC thread, another quote from Geoff K from that AK thread "clarifying" things:

"Hello All -- Please allow me to clarify a little bit: my point about the car is that the Clock should not be placed in the car during A/B tests, whether the car is in the garage, just outside the garage, or out by the curb. The front or back porch, garage, basement are also part of the building structure and should be avoided for purposes of the test. The area just outside the front or rear door are outside the building structure and are OK for purposes of the test.

Also, it's possible that placing the Clever Little Clock in a box, a bag or similar item during the course of the test (in order to hide the clock from view) might degrade or perhaps nullify the effect of the Clock. I suggest taking the Clock out of its clear bubble pak and keeping it out in the open when in use.

Thanks, Geoff"

Daygloworange · « **Reply #268 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 08:18 pm »

zzzzzzzzzzz.....

bprice2 · « **Reply #269 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 09:03 pm »

bprice2 · « **Reply #270 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 09:06 pm »

Damnit...was trying to be cute and pressed "post" before I had a chance to name my new invention, The Sprightly Swingline Stapler.

bprice2 · « **Reply #271 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 09:07 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 15 Feb 2007, 09:06 pm

Damnit...was trying to be cute and pressed "post" before I had a chance to name my new invention, The Sprightly Swingline Stapler.

BTW...I know I'm not funny. Just bored.

Steve Eddy · « **Reply #272 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 15 Feb 2007, 09:07 pm

BTW...I know I'm not funny. Just bored.

Don't sell yourself too short. I got a good chuckle out of it.

By the way, you can go back and edit your posts after you've posted them. Just click on the Modify button (though there is a time limit).

se

bprice2 · « **Reply #273 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 09:59 pm »

Quote

Don't sell yourself too short. I got a good chuckle out of it.

Good...thought I'd be the only one.

Quote

By the way, you can go back and edit your posts after you've posted them. Just click on the Modify button (though there is a time limit).

Thanks...I'll remember that next time.

Also, I have another invention in mind. Hint: It involves a staple puller.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #274 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:12 pm »

I have one in mind too. It involves a 24 oz. ball peen hammer.

I'd love to show this Geoff Kait guy what it can be used for.

Cheers

nathanm · « **Reply #275 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:13 pm »

I wonder, does this mean the old clothes and junky knick knacks that people sell in garage sales are unknowingly enhanced sonically by use of the mysterious orange dot sticker!? Could Uncle Bob's 3rd place Pinewood Derby trophy be an undiscovered audio tweak?

bprice2 · « **Reply #276 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:23 pm »

Quote from: nathanm on 15 Feb 2007, 10:13 pm

I wonder, does this mean the old clothes and junky knick knacks that people sell in garage sales are unknowingly enhanced sonically by use of the mysterious orange dot sticker!? Could Uncle Bob's 3rd place Pinewood Derby trophy be an undiscovered audio tweak?

If it works for a clock, then yes.

I've been doing some serious pontificating on this subject and have come up with a much more streamlined approach. Why not just skip the Crappy Little Clock and simply place an orange dot on your forehead...right betwixt the ear holes. BTW...I will be selling my Dexterous Little Dots for only $10 a pop.

bprice2 · « **Reply #277 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:53 pm »

The ideas just keep flowing. We shall call it...Brilliant Little Briefs? Our best tweak yet!

miklorsmith · « **Reply #278 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:54 pm »

I'm not comfortable having such a powerful and unpredictable force . . . there.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #279 on:** 15 Feb 2007, 10:56 pm »

Somebody might get injured...

Cheers