Vista- yay or nay?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 16837 times.

SET Man

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #40 on: 3 Feb 2007, 07:01 pm »

Personally, I think Macs are better designed and easier to use that Winblows.  However, a lot of software still is PC based.

Hey!

    Yup, Mac here also. :D True that there are more software for PC but for my use Mac fit me perfectly. :D

    Well, let's just say I tossed out the Window out of my window a few years back. :lol:


Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Bemopti123

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #41 on: 3 Feb 2007, 08:04 pm »
Ok, I’m no expert but I am a professional in the publishing, news and media industry. MOST writers are Mac fans, simple and true. The publishing world, in general, is Mac bias even though Apple only accounts for 4 percent of all computers in the US and 2 percent world wide. This is why the media pays WAY more attention to Apple and Jobs then what is reasonable. For a tiny company that basically contributes little to the industry as a whole, they get too much attention because of the fan-favoritism of the media – it’s a joke really.

Also. Again, as a publishing professional for over 18 years I have found that writers and editors are a strange bunch to say the least. They are usually (90%!) technically challenged and overly scholastic being somewhat socially handicapped. Sorry if I just insulted anyone, but it’s a strong and solid observation I find to be true overwhelmingly so.

I try not to read all the bias nonsense written by Mac fans that are also techno retards. Like the most recent headlines about Visa vulnerability related to voice commands – well, duha!! Seriously, is that the best they can do? The stupid Mac commercial portraying the gorky PC-guy getting his Vista upgrade and having to have his perifs.  changed – isn’t that the kettle calling the pot black!

Enough, is enough on this topic.

Vista is wonderful and is going to make millions of computer users very happy.

BTW: I installed Vista Business on an Athlon 1400Mhz or something with 256MB of RAM and a 20GB hard drive with onboard video – real old and slow. I put it on a co workers desk and ask them how it was. After a week or so, they had no complaints, liked it actually. So there goes the “Vista wont’ run on anything but a super computer” its just not true, it’ll run fine on just about anything.



One cannot discount personal experience when talking about equipment, software, cables etc...  I stand to say that MS has been very fortunate not to have their behinds sued beyond oblivion due to the absolute lack of concern on their security side mostly due to their negligence in not working up the security and technical glitches. 

Once again, to call the fans and users of Apple computers technically challenged is a sweeping statement, so is the statement that "Vista will make millions of users happy." 

Most have not known glitches and crashes to be something not common because most computers most people have experienced have Windows on them.  Show then a machine with a different OS system, such as the OS X.  They will be surprised.  This is not to say that all OS that Apple writes is necessarily perfect.  Unlike some Apple supporters that claim it is flawless, it does freeze once in a blue moon.  One thing that I have experienced with the OS X is that at least I did not have to "Clean boot" due to file corruption in the past 2 years.  Tell me what is more stable?  If my experiences with XP pack 2 are reflective of potential things to come, then, what good can come from a system that is in the inherent code, similar to Windows of old?  Now, if you give me a comp with Vista for free, I will try it.  To buy it because I do not want to be labelled "Technically challenged" I won't. 

Older non linux based OS from Apple were buggy, as I remember them.  My greatest surprise came when I went into Apple computing after a hiatus between 1996-2005.  What a surprise it was.  In comparison, Windows XP and its subsequent packs seem rough in execution.  In comparison to the previous Windows version, XP might have brought some stability, but not at the par of Mac OS X. 

Vista will make millions happy... Sure, anyone who has not used a computer and who has a chance of using will be happy with ANY computer, which most likely will be a window based one, due to the 96% figure you provided. 

BTW:  I do like Microsoft Word, due to my familiarity to it. 

boead

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #42 on: 3 Feb 2007, 08:27 pm »
One cannot discount personal experience when talking about equipment, software, cables etc...  I stand to say that MS has been very fortunate not to have their behinds sued beyond oblivion due to the absolute lack of concern on their security side mostly due to their negligence in not working up the security and technical glitches. 

Once again, to call the fans and users of Apple computers technically challenged is a sweeping statement, so is the statement that "Vista will make millions of users happy." 

Most have not known glitches and crashes to be something not common because most computers most people have experienced have Windows on them.  Show then a machine with a different OS system, such as the OS X.  They will be surprised.  This is not to say that all OS that Apple writes is necessarily perfect.  Unlike some Apple supporters that claim it is flawless, it does freeze once in a blue moon.  One thing that I have experienced with the OS X is that at least I did not have to "Clean boot" due to file corruption in the past 2 years.  Tell me what is more stable?  If my experiences with XP pack 2 are reflective of potential things to come, then, what good can come from a system that is in the inherent code, similar to Windows of old?  Now, if you give me a comp with Vista for free, I will try it.  To buy it because I do not want to be labelled "Technically challenged" I won't. 

Older non linux based OS from Apple were buggy, as I remember them.  My greatest surprise came when I went into Apple computing after a hiatus between 1996-2005.  What a surprise it was.  In comparison, Windows XP and its subsequent packs seem rough in execution.  In comparison to the previous Windows version, XP might have brought some stability, but not at the par of Mac OS X. 

Vista will make millions happy... Sure, anyone who has not used a computer and who has a chance of using will be happy with ANY computer, which most likely will be a window based one, due to the 96% figure you provided. 

BTW:  I do like Microsoft Word, due to my familiarity to it. 

Thank you for supporting my statements.

Hantra

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #43 on: 3 Feb 2007, 09:14 pm »
Unless Apple decides to make their OS available for people to run on their Wintel machines.

There's no better time to do this than now.  They need to do this to remain a viable player.  Otherwise, they are just a consumer electronics company.  I still don't see it happening b/c it makes too much sense. 

Val

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #44 on: 3 Feb 2007, 11:04 pm »
What the heck do you do with five buttons on a mouse?

Easy functionality: go forward, go back, continuous scroll up, down or sideways, customize functions, etc.

By the way, I have never experienced a crash in Windows XP SP2, which I use for hours every day. I once got a virus and my free Avast! AV destroyed it before it could do any harm.

Doublej

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2761
Re: Vista- yay or nay?....How is the audio?
« Reply #45 on: 4 Feb 2007, 01:50 am »
Anyone have an opinion on how well Vista handles or doesn't handle audio?

BTW, I can hang my Windows XP machine at will by trying to to do too much with itunes or Adobe Acrobat.

The other question I have is why can't a group of folks get together and write an Intel based open source operating system that sends both Microsoft and Apple to their graves? I can't speak for the Macintosh but there seems to be an open source Windows program for everything except Windows itself. (And IMHO no it is not Linux. Google will likely have something within a few years but giving up your privacy for an operating system is not free)

texasphile

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #46 on: 4 Feb 2007, 02:06 am »
Quote
I can hang my Windows XP machine at will by trying to to do too much with itunes or Adobe Acrobat.

If you are only using Acrobat Reader, try Foxit Reader instead.  It is much faster than Acrobat, I don't think it likes IE too much though.  I use it instead of Acrobat in Firefox.  One quirk, sometimes when you are prompted to "Open With" Foxit cannot be selected unless you first click "Select another Program" and then click back to Foxit Reader.  Otherwise it seems to work well.  I would not recommend that you use it in a professional environment due to many office machines being locked to Acrobat as the default program to open .pdf files.

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/rd_intro.php

Chris


texasphile

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #47 on: 4 Feb 2007, 02:33 am »
Quote
bought the vista, ultimate edition thru a friend of mine at a mega substantial discount  Thumbs up
Thats the only reason i bought it ... i'm quite ok with the xp i have installed.
I'll know how good or bad it is in the next couple of weeks. I've a 64 bit athlon processor with 1G RAM but a 128MB AGP graphics card .... hopefully i don't have to upgrade any hardware in the near future.

Oooooh, Sorry Cacophonix,

You will need more memory, lots more memory, (Matrix, "I need lots of guns") more memory.  Vista's minimum is 512 MB to function, a realistic number would be 1 GB as a minimum.  I use XP Pro SP2 and I have 2 GB of Memory, a 512 MB PCI Express SLI card, and an X2 (dual core) AMD CPU.  I purchased this in preparation for Vista.  I will still need more RAM to use my computer as a Vista based gaming platform (Not going to happen anytime soon...until I see stability within the OS), I plan on going up to 4-6 GB of RAM memory.  By the way, the memory must be absolutely perfect with no errors present on any RAM stick.  There are computer tech websites which explain and deal with this problem.  Since most RAM has a Lifetime warranty, you may want to run a memcheck program of some sort and if there are any memory addressing problems on a RAM stick send it back to the manufacturer.  You may need a receipt or proof of purchase.  128 MB won't run the Aero desktop function, if I remember correctly, but it can be defeated/bypassed.

Chris

Hantra

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #48 on: 4 Feb 2007, 03:04 am »
As far as audio, I loaded RC2 JUST to see how good the audio was.  Didn't sound as good as XP, and didn't have an option to unmap my DAC (which is probably why).

boead

Re: Vista- yay or nay?....How is the audio?
« Reply #49 on: 4 Feb 2007, 04:03 am »
Anyone have an opinion on how well Vista handles or doesn't handle audio?

BTW, I can hang my Windows XP machine at will by trying to to do too much with itunes or Adobe Acrobat.


Ever look and see home much memory iTunes eats? It’s a poorly written app, a real POS!

Acrobat isn’t much better.


boead

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #50 on: 4 Feb 2007, 04:14 am »
You will need more memory, lots more memory, (Matrix, "I need lots of guns") more memory.  Vista's minimum is 512 MB to function, a realistic number would be 1 GB as a minimum.  I use XP Pro SP2 and I have 2 GB of Memory, a 512 MB PCI Express SLI card, and an X2 (dual core) AMD CPU.  I purchased this in preparation for Vista.  I will still need more RAM to use my computer as a Vista based gaming platform (Not going to happen anytime soon...until I see stability within the OS), I plan on going up to 4-6 GB of RAM memory.  By the way, the memory must be absolutely perfect with no errors present on any RAM stick.  There are computer tech websites which explain and deal with this problem.  Since most RAM has a Lifetime warranty, you may want to run a memcheck program of some sort and if there are any memory addressing problems on a RAM stick send it back to the manufacturer.  You may need a receipt or proof of purchase.  128 MB won't run the Aero desktop function, if I remember correctly, but it can be defeated/bypassed.

Chris

Not entirely true, I’m ran Vista on 256MB with no problems. Vista will disable any eye candy it needs more memory to run.

Also, 2GB is fine. I have a Core2 Duo OC’ed to 3600Mhz on a i965 chipset with an X1900xtx. 2GB (two sticks) of DDR2 running Vista RC1. Memory usage is about 30% to 35% browsing and emailing. Games run fine (except OGL which there is no support for just yet). I play HL2, COD2, UT04 and Civ4 on Vista nice and fast. There is a performance hit in frame rate compared to XP but that’s to be expected with a beta OS and drivers. Same was true for XP at first then it surpassed prior OS’s once SP1 came out. Vista SP1 is slated for early summer.

Remember that most reviewers are idiots and Mac fans; don’t let their misinformation rein true.

The thing about the memory usage is that much of it is cached. You can launch lots of different apps and the usage doesn’t grow much. So its not like Vista itself needs 500+Mb of RAM, much of it is allocated to the PCIe BUS and your video card. The video card allocates almost 200MB alone. Vista reserves and manages memory differently then XP, if the memory is available it will grab it and use it. If its not, it won’t because it can’t. If your HD is OLD and SLOW, then caching to virtual will be a major bottle neck but that’s normal.

Offices can upgrade older machines to Vista if they want to, there is no good reason for it that I can see, at lest for the next year or so till Vista specific apps are on the market. By then, the older machines will be even older and likely not even work any more. It all works out nicely.

Again, such nonsense and misinformation or exaggerations – its Elephant talk!



Levi

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #51 on: 4 Feb 2007, 04:57 am »
+1.0

I must agree.  iTunes is not designed well enough to do quality audio ripping.  Who says an iPod is audiophile gear anyway?   :lol:

Anyone have an opinion on how well Vista handles or doesn't handle audio?

BTW, I can hang my Windows XP machine at will by trying to to do too much with itunes or Adobe Acrobat.


Ever look and see home much memory iTunes eats? It’s a poorly written app, a real POS!

Acrobat isn’t much better.



texasphile

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #52 on: 4 Feb 2007, 05:22 am »
Quote
The thing about the memory usage is that much of it is cached. You can launch lots of different apps and the usage doesn’t grow much. So its not like Vista itself needs 500+Mb of RAM, much of it is allocated to the PCIe BUS and your video card.

Believe me, I am more than happy to hear that I won't need as much RAM as predicted by the media experts.  I also have an ATI 1900XTX and I got the 512 MB version to help future proof my video card (and play Doom 3 with the huge textures).  I didn't care about Aero, I just want the games to run fast and look good not necessarily the OS (Well, running stably would be a huge plus) .   I was noticing problems with slowdown when I had 1 GB of memory (PC3200-AMD CPU)  and since I had to purchase RAM in identical pairs, I went with two 512MB sticks.  I probably could have stayed with 1.5 GB but the cost would not have had much of a difference.  Personally, I wish that I could purchase a 64 bit OS instead of a fancier looking 32 bit OS.  But driver support being less than desirable, oh, well.  It's memory usage sounds like the type used by the Xbox 360, i.e. dedicate the memory where it is needed for as long as it is needed. 

By the way, how in the world did you get Half-Life 2 Episode 1 to load onto your computer?  I installed Steam and over the last 8 weeks, it has downloaded 11% of the update to the game.   As far as I can tell from the teeny bit of documentation, I cannot finish installing the game nor play it until the update is complete.  My modem download speed averages 34.5 MB/sec with every other program except Steam, which runs at 2.9-3.5 MB/sec.  After about two hours I have to reboot the computer because Steam disconnects or is disconnected from Valve Software's website.  It is incredibly annoying.  The support tech just repeated the FAQs that I had already read and implemented.  I could take my computer into work and use their T3 lines to speed up the download, except that it would be tracked back to whichever drop I used and I would be reprimanded or fired.


As far as Hard Drives, I have an older 7200 rpm IDE with the OS and little else on it, and a newer SATA drive for the game programs.  I will replace, before upgrading the OS, the IDE drive with a SATA 2 drive and make the SATA drive the OS drive.

Thanks for clearing the problem of Vista 32 up for me, I suppose I'll wait until the Service Pack is Issued and see how much MS really wants me to spend for Vista Ultimate (need that in-game eye candy).

Regards,
Chris

mgalusha

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #53 on: 4 Feb 2007, 05:23 am »
In December I installed Vista Business (MS Partner download) edition on this machine, an HP ZD7000 laptop (one of the few that hasn't died yet) with a P4 3.2GHz processor, 2G of ram and a 32MB Nvidia GeForce FX Go 5700. While Aero would run it was pretty painful. Booting this machine up under XP SP2 uses a about 275MB of ram with no programs open except the crap that's sitting in the system tray. I did an upgrade to Vista so I wouldn't have to reinstall everything. Running Vista it allocates about 780MB of ram after bootup, no programs open. While it may run on 512MB performance will likely be pretty awful.

Prior to installing Vista I made a full backup with the system state to an external drive, just in case. I ended up keeping Vista for two days on this machine before restoring my backup. Due to the "SuperFetch" features performance improved as I used the machine due to Vista prefetching application code into memory but what really made me remove it was the lack of AV support and the fact that Microsoft decided to not support Visual Studio 2003 on Vista. While MS has a newer version many companies are still using the older development platform because it would simply be too expensive for them to migrate. My company is one of those. In addition anyone doing .NET development as a consulting gig needs to be able to run both the 1.1 and the 2.0 framework and MS decided to leave them out in the cold. These will happily coexist on an XP machine but developers having to support .NET 1.1 apps are screwed. Well, not entirely. MS's answer is to run XP in a virtual machine using virtual PC. To do that effectively you need at least 3GB of ram, something most laptops won't allow. Ironically MS Vista upgrade adviser is based on the 1.1 framework, which you can't develop on using Vista. Oh yea, MS is supporting VB 6 on Vista. WTF is up with that? 

Sorry, just venting. My day job is IT director for a small company and I'll have to see a damn good business reason to replace XP on our machines. XP is far from perfect but we have relatively few problems and we know it well and can deal with the problems that do occur. Of course MS will stop supporting XP eventually and we'll have to change but I'm hoping that won't happen for quite some time.

There are other reasons why I won't run Vista and those are primarily related to DRM and how it will reduce the quality of images and audio if it believes things are not perfect or that something is tampering with the system. There is a lot of overhead involved in doing this as the OS is doing a lot of encryption/decryption to decode protected content. A very interesting article by a New Zealand computer science researcher goes into detail about the inner workings of Vista and how it goes about things. It's long but very much worth reading.  http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html


Rob Babcock

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 9319
Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #54 on: 4 Feb 2007, 06:02 am »
I imagine eventually there really won't be much of a choice, but XP & Vista will likely coexist for awhile.  I'm not at all comfortable with the all the DRM stuff (eg sections of your own HD that MS locks you out of :duh:) but unless we get some landmark court decision, DRM will only become more restrictive.  The idea of an Apple is mildly interesting, but I can't afford to spend $2k+ for a machine I can build myself for $900.  And I don't foresee ever buying an off-the-shelf computer again, except perhaps a new laptop to replace my old one.  At this stage of the game I'm not tech savvy enough to be comfortable trying Linux.

If I could simply buy the latest MAC OS and install it on my own homebuilt computer, I'd give that a try in a heartbeat.  Why won't they do that, especially now that Apple is running Intel?  Surely their profit margin on an OS is higher than it could ever be on hardware? :scratch:

boead

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #55 on: 4 Feb 2007, 02:43 pm »
Quote
By the way, how in the world did you get Half-Life 2 Episode 1 to load onto your computer?  I installed Steam and over the last 8 weeks, it has downloaded 11% of the update to the game.   As far as I can tell from the teeny bit of documentation, I cannot finish installing the game nor play it until the update is complete.  My modem download speed averages 34.5 MB/sec with every other program except Steam, which runs at 2.9-3.5 MB/sec.  After about two hours I have to reboot the computer because Steam disconnects or is disconnected from Valve Software's website.  It is incredibly annoying.  The support tech just repeated the FAQs that I had already read and implemented.  I could take my computer into work and use their T3 lines to speed up the download, except that it would be tracked back to whichever drop I used and I would be reprimanded or fired.


As far as Hard Drives, I have an older 7200 rpm IDE with the OS and little else on it, and a newer SATA drive for the game programs.  I will replace, before upgrading the OS, the IDE drive with a SATA 2 drive and make the SATA drive the OS drive.

Thanks for clearing the problem of Vista 32 up for me, I suppose I'll wait until the Service Pack is Issued and see how much MS really wants me to spend for Vista Ultimate (need that in-game eye candy).

Regards,
Chris

Well you’re going to LOVE this. You only need to install HL2 once. From that point on, all you need to do is launch the apps. I keep all my games on a D partition (i.e. D:/My Games) Since Steam and the games don’t write anything into the Windows directory, you only need to launch the game (well, you need to launch Steam) and if you are moving the games from one computer or OS to another, you will be asked for your username and password. D:/My Games/Valve/Steam/Steam.exe – The Steam checks for updates and then runs. Doom3, Call of Duty2 and UT2004 transplant the same way. They are truly self contained apps.

I too wish I could have a true 64-bit system, that’s why I tried WindowsXP64 which was a nightmare. I lent it to a friend to try and he too found NO drivers available that worked well enough. The positive side is that we’re not missing anything; there just aren’t any 64-bit apps available right now. Adobe will be releasing 64-bit versions of their apps next year as well as other manufacturers. SO in about a year or so, Windows XP64 and Vista 64 will be an option.

If you do memory intensive data-basing, video or 3D editing then you will want the extra RAM but for most of us 2GB is plenty.


boead

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #56 on: 4 Feb 2007, 02:46 pm »
If I could simply buy the latest MAC OS and install it on my own homebuilt computer, I'd give that a try in a heartbeat.  Why won't they do that, especially now that Apple is running Intel?  Surely their profit margin on an OS is higher than it could ever be on hardware? :scratch:

ME TOO!

And every time someone posts anything related to a cracked OS running on a PC, Apple lawyers will be all over you!

They don’t even want people talking about it.


Bemopti123

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #57 on: 4 Feb 2007, 03:14 pm »
The idea of an Apple is mildly interesting, but I can't afford to spend $2k+ for a machine I can build myself for $900. 
If I could simply buy the latest MAC OS and install it on my own homebuilt computer, I'd give that a try in a heartbeat.  Why won't they do that, especially now that Apple is running Intel?  Surely their profit margin on an OS is higher than it could ever be on hardware? :scratch:

If you still can remember that one time when Apple came out with the first Power PC chips and they decided to license the rights of their OS.  Several overseas manufacturers began to jump into the bandwagon by making machines with many more features for about the same or lower price on than a Mac.  It turned the card on Apple as their sales declined and they began to bleed in the profits.  Within about 1 year, they decided to turn it around and broke their licensing agreement, virtually eliminating all non Apple badged computers from the market.  That was prior to S. Jobs returning to office. 

What was interesting about it was that it actually allowed Apple increase in market share temporarily, but nothing more. 

I think it will not be too long in the future when Apple Inc. will actually sell their OS separately from their comps.  You can see that in their moves with the Iphone (which I will actually not buy) or their venture with Apple TV, which I do not understand why it does not begin outright stating that it can do HD at 1080, but gives mediocre resolution on HD tvs.  Apple it attempting like many other PC manufacturers to become an electronics company more than just a computer/software company.  When they actually make the transition, you will be able to purchase the OS to install in your computer.  They might actually separate the software developing division from their main company.

Microsoft is also in the attempts of doing the same with their Zune, Xbox 360 and their Windows Mobile software that is ubiquitous in many portables.  Asides from their gaming venture, I do not know how successful they are with their other projects.

One thing is for sure, the Itunes and Ipod venture is the 600 pound gorilla.  Competitors can jab at it all they want, but they have yet to take their spot. 

Bemopti123

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #58 on: 4 Feb 2007, 03:16 pm »
If I could simply buy the latest MAC OS and install it on my own homebuilt computer, I'd give that a try in a heartbeat.  Why won't they do that, especially now that Apple is running Intel?  Surely their profit margin on an OS is higher than it could ever be on hardware? :scratch:

ME TOO!

And every time someone posts anything related to a cracked OS running on a PC, Apple lawyers will be all over you!

They don’t even want people talking about it.



Can you explain that Apple lawyer action with some anecdotes?  I am interested to see what these people do to others who detract on their products. 


Levi

Re: Vista- yay or nay?
« Reply #59 on: 5 Feb 2007, 03:47 am »
Ok.  I downloaded and installed Vista Enterprise x86 from MSDN subscriber downloads. 
I also helped myself and downloaded Office 2007 Business edition while I am on it.  So far so good. 

I love the Aero-glass and gadgets and such.  I can surely personalize it.  I hate the security wizard that keeps poping whenever you tried to change configurations.  Let see, I will play around with Vista Enterprise for the next few days.

Some snapshots.

MSDN subscription download on the left.  Outlook 2007 and my gadget on the right.


The famous Aero Glass


Ok.  So I have Vista Enterprise installed.  I just don't know what the fuss is all about? 

You may not accept it now business peeps.  Windows Vista is inevitable.   Windows Vista is the future.   aa