[SET Man]

Hey!

  Well, as a DIYer I can't help myself thinking of what I could do to make my system a bit better. And after going through those catalogs from Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds. Seeing all those beautiful turntable with outboard motor I can't help myself but to look at my good old Rega Planar 2 that I've been using since 1997 and say "Hmmm... Rega Planar 2 with outboard motor? Why not?"

  And so the plan got rolling. The first thing was finding belt that is longer. So, that is when I asked for help... here is the thread http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=34809.0 And thanks to one of our members anal.log that turn me to the Turntable Basics I found a longer round belt there... I also pick up their record brush for $10 of which excellent BTW.

  So, let's get the show started....



 Above show what's look like inside the Rega Planar 2. The motor is made by Phillip Holland. It basically held by the rubber band on the mounting plate of which mounted on the plinth by 2 screws. This help reduce some vibration but the motor could move somewhat and this is not good for speed stability.



I removed the motor, power cord and the power board out. And I mounted the motor on the side of the ceramic head of which I use to hold my Grado SR60 headphone. It is heavy enough. This is just a temporary base. I warp the power board with electrical tape so I won't shock myself. Since there is now no on/off switch I just use a clip for that. I will have to work on the new base for the motor and the power board soon



Luckily I have an old test record from the early days of stereo with 1KHz test tone. I used this to check the speed of the new belt and also work on the right tension between the motor base and the sub spindle.

  A little note... the Rega with the original belt run a bit fast so I use 2 layers of electrical vinyl tape on the sub spindle to slow it down a bit. Work great for many years now.

   But with new belt I have to remove one layer. And the meter show 1KHz now



This is what is look like now. Well, it wasn't all smooth at first. The new belt have tendency to roll and cause the flutter(?) But after I clean it with the rubber/drive wheel cleaner it seem to relaxed a bit. And it is now a second night the belt seem to run better now. I don't notice any speed instability now. Will have to recheck with the test tone again.

Anyway, I feel that the belt is a bit too long. A bit shorter one would be better but I can't find one yet.  But, so far so good!

  Now as for the sound....

  I have to say that the first thing I notice is the quietness. Amazing how much motor noise got feed into the signal. It is now as quiet as listening to a CD player! Especially with the quiet passage of the music. The second thing I notice is the bass.... I was like "Where is all of these bass coming from?" Well, with the motor now mounted on a more rigid base there is more bass, a much tighter bass with better pace and rhythm too. Third everything seems to have much better focus more solid image and more subtle detail all coming out now.

   So, my conclusion is...

    I said to myself early tonight... "I've should have done this long ago!" Think about it I've been listen to the damn motor all these years!

    As I said before on the other thread about finding the belt.... Rega offer a motor upgrade for the Planar.... not sure if it is still available. The new motor said to have much less vibration and it is mounted solidly on to the plinth. I don't remember how much it cost but it ain't cheap. So, it got me thinking. "What wrong with the motor I have now?" Nothing! So, by taking it out and mount it outside I save money and have potential to be better than the new motor that is still mounted on the plinth of the turntable

    The new belt cost me only $15 plus about an hour to get thing spinning again.... sure it will take more to build the new motor base but that's later. But I do wish that my Planar 2 use the flat belt though... it would be better since it can't roll.

   Anyway, with this experience I must say that if I ever going to buy a new turntable I will definitely buy one with the the outboard motor... and I am talking about the one with motor that have it own base and not sitting on the same platform as the turntable itself.  Sure it will cost more but I don't think I can go back to the TT with motor mounted on the plinth now.

   BTW.... I know that the Rockport TT have direct drive... but at $75K that motor better be quieter than any belt drive TTs out there.

Take care,
Buddy

[jpv]

I did a diy SAMA for my VPI and found the same results. Good job.
Build a sand box for under the table and motor for even better bass and thing will get quieter.

[TheChairGuy]

Way to go, Buddy - thanks for sharing this (and taking pics) 

John/TCG

[mcrespo71]

Way to go!!!!

[Russtafarian]

Damn!  Another project to try. 

My planar 3 has been sitting there far too smuggly for the past few years, sniggering under his breath every time he sees his buddy the Sony SACD player get yanked out of the system and tortured by the soldering iron. 

Don't get too comfortable there, Mr. P3.  You're time is gonna come...

Russ

[Berndt]

for some reason I was expecting mercury marine, or evinrude?

[Wayner]

I like it! You do need a longer belt! 

W

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Thanks guys! I'm spinning some LPs right now.  It is now the third night and I'm still amazed by the improvements

    The new belt seem to run even smoother tonight. Well, I guess even the turntable belt need some.... dare I say "break-in" time And the speed is very stable... seem to be even more so than it was originally.

   Anyway, I check out the price of the motor upgrade from Rega http://www.rega.co.uk/html/upgrade_kits.htm And it cost $165 at Music Direct! And guess what? I downloaded the PDF file instruction of the new motor and was very surprised by the fact that the new motor is now mounted on the plinth with a "sticky pad" kind of double sided tape to the laminate! I find this funny. For the price I was expecting more

   TCG... no problem. It was fun. There are thousands of Planar 2 and 3 out there. For those who are tweaker this would be an ultimate upgrade/mod for these good sounding simple TTs.

   mcrespo71... you've got hear this man! Well, now I could hold off the idea of buying a new TT for a long while

   jpv.... I should have done this long ago. Now I hear more of the music itself.

   Russ.... listen, go for it the belt I got from the Turntable Basics. The OA 32.2 model.  Or you could spend $175 for the Rega motor upgrade for you Planar 3 and still have motor stick to you turntable... literally

    Berndt... I think I will need a different belt to hook up a Mercury marine outboard motor. Imagine 200HP to spin LP BTW... why do they call it outboard motor... well it is really an internal gasoline combustion engine and not what we could think of motor as one that use electric power

Take care,
Buddy

   

[mjosef]

Good going there Buddy...just one thought, would there be some very small 'creep' of the outboard section toward the table from vibrations or simply the pull of the rubber belt? And when you do settle on a permanent solution, how would you ensure that the outboard section remains at a constant distance from the table?
Hope to hear it soon.
Later

[SET Man]

Good going there Buddy...just one thought, would there be some very small 'creep' of the outboard section toward the table from vibrations or simply the pull of the rubber belt? And when you do settle on a permanent solution, how would you ensure that the outboard section remains at a constant distance from the table?
Hope to hear it soon.
Later

Hey!

    As for the vibrations 'creep' it is very small almost non since the TT are set on my DIY isolation platform

     For the distance... well I'm still working on it. Once found it would be easy. Just use measurement tape from the TT spindle to the center point of the motor pulley.

     But I do have a bigger problem right now.... see below...

Take care,
Buddy

[SET Man]

Hey!

   Guys! a little update... well, I seem to have problem with the new belt again.

    The new belt tend to roll and cause the speed flutter!

    I even put back the motor to the way it was just to check and there it was.... a pretty good speed stability.

    Everything is going so well... but this won't belt stay still. Looking at the sub spindle while spinning I could see the new belt creeping up and down the side. I thought it was the electrical vinyl tape that I used to slow down the speed. I removed it and the belt still creeping/rising up and down the side wall of the spindle.

   Man! I thought I had it good. Also, the new belt is softer than the old one and since it is very long, this may cause it to roll. Or maybe it is some defect on the belt? Hmmm... I have to check it out.

   Well, I guess I'm going back to the drawing board. Only if I could find a new belt that work.

   Wish me luck guys!

Take care,
Buddy

[Wayner]

First, the belt is of course, too long. The longer the belt, the more stretch it has. I believe the fluctuation is speed may be caused by a variation in durometer of the belt as it makes it's way around the loop. it may also be stretching, becoming larger and larger and not making proper contact with the drive pulley and platter. The motor needs a better mount then the "Head", although I do like the style. Go on line and get a belt on *bay. there are many belt lengths to choose from. Since the Rega 2 looks like it has about a 5" inner platter I'd bet a 25" long belt would be a good place to start. 

W

[Berndt]

outboard I believe means outside the transom or "board".
Completely OT but the biography of Carl Kiekheafer is brilliant, "Iron Fist".

[SET Man]

Hey!

   It had been a fews day now. The sad news is that I'm still working on this. The only problem with this project is finding a perfect fit belt.

   So, with nothing to loose I decided to splice the belt. I recalled on the the member vinylkid58 mentioned about splicing belt together with crazy glue.

   Sound crazy but since the long belt I have now doesn't work anyway so why not? I use tape measurement and settled on 26" pretty the same conclusion as Wayner. I used blade to cut it shorter in diagonal than glued it together and use blade to do over the bump at the joint.

   Well, it work! Ain't perfect but I didn't notice any speed flutter and using test tone and meter it seem pretty stable... enough that I don't notice the flutter. The belt still very soft at the joint.

   So, is this a happy ending to the story? Sadly not The belt snapped tonight! But it was fine last night for almost 4 hours of spinning.

   Now I'm screwed Well, after having a little taste of what it possible with the motor out of the turntable I have to admit that I can not go back to the motor on board my Rega anymore... seriously!

    With this I'm facing with a few options that I've considered...

   1. Take my time and keep trying to find the right belt for the job.

   2. Take my Planar and pimp it out with a new plinth I have been thinking about this for some time now. I could go to plastic store and get acrylic sheet of about the same thickness as the original plinth but a bit narrower. Drill the holes and by placing the sub spindle and near the edge of the plinth with some of the sub spindle sticking out I could use the original belt and that would solved this problem plus I will have a pretty much new acrylic TT.

   3. Take the easy way out. Just get the TT that I've been dreaming of buying for a while now. Maybe one of these beauties than use the RB250 arm that I have now.



or


   

   Well, honestly the 3rd option is not practical right now since I don't have money for that right now

   The 2nd sounds like something that could be done and it won't cost me much money to do. And it would be interesting TT at the end with Rega parts and arm with new acrylic plinth. The only thing I'm worry about is that when I'm done I might not like the sound of the acrylic

   Okay, thanks all you guys for the support. This crazy project is not done yet. Well, back to the drawing board for me!

Take care,
Buddy

[lonewolfny42]

See Buddy....you had to go and play those "Abba" albums tonight....snap !! (Just kidding you.... )

I'd say just keep checking for the proper belt....your already happy with the TT ....just get the belt right. Try a few....least expensive way to go for now.

Those TT's you posted look pretty good.....

Good luck...............................      Chris

[SET Man]

See Buddy....you had to go and play those "Abba" albums tonight....snap !! (Just kidding you.... )

Hey!

     Actually it made through ABBA songs but it snapped when I was spinning this album...



    Man! I was just about to get boogie with "Stayin' Alive" !

I'd say just keep checking for the proper belt....your already happy with the TT ....just get the belt right. Try a few....least expensive way to go for now.

    Hmmm... I hope I could find one soon

Those TT's you posted look pretty good.....

Good luck...............................      Chris

 Yes, those are two of my favorite TTs. The first one is Clearaudio "Solution" at $2K without arm... what a beauty. 

  The second is JA Michell. Gyro at $2300 with out arm. An old time proven TT. Honestly I'm leaning more toward this one than the Clearaudio.

   BTW... remember the "2001 Space Oddessy" movie? The space station were modeled after the sub plinth of the older JA Michell TT. The new on also have this too pretty much the same today.

    Well, like I say.... back to the drawing board!

Take care,
Budd

[Beezer]

Have you looked into buying the belts used on some of these other tables with outboard motors?  Any of these manufacturers should offer replacement belts for their tables...  It might not be a perfect match, but would work better than what you have now.

Beez

[mcrespo71]

Buddy,

Having heard both your dream turntables, I'd recommend the J.A. Michell.  I'm not a fan of the clearaudio's at all, though they look very nice.  However, I hope you just keep tweaking the Rega because it's more in keeping with your DIY nature.  In fact, why don't you consider building your own TT or using a kit- probably easier than modifying a Rega.

Michael

[SET Man]

Have you looked into buying the belts used on some of these other tables with outboard motors?  Any of these manufacturers should offer replacement belts for their tables...  It might not be a perfect match, but would work better than what you have now.

Beez

Hey!
 
 Yes, I did considered that. I even asked in my thread about finding belt. Nobody could give me the measurement of the belt on their TT.

Buddy,

Having heard both your dream turntables, I'd recommend the J.A. Michell.  I'm not a fan of the clearaudio's at all, though they look very nice.  However, I hope you just keep tweaking the Rega because it's more in keeping with your DIY nature.  In fact, why don't you consider building your own TT or using a kit- probably easier than modifying a Rega.

Michael

    Yup, honestly I'm leaning toward the JA myself. But no $ right now

    Yes, I like to DIY and have it my way aa To make this work without much of a fuss I will just have to use Rega parts and make a plinth for it

    I think I will go to Chinatown tomorrow and pick up acrylic sheet... but I'm still skeptical about acrylic sound

    Other option is cutting board that seem to be popular around here as component base. But the problem I could see is that it won't be as flat as acrylic sheet... but it will be easier to work with.

    Damn!... this is tough. But I can't go back to the on board motor anymore! 

Take care,
Buddy

[Wayner]

I just measured one of my spare VPI belts and it is about 35" long. Maybe it is too long for your application but it is an "o-ring" type of belt. My spare belt for my Harmon kardon is 25" but it is a flat belt x .25" high (about .020" thick). I bought it from a guy on *bay for about 10 dollars with shipping. It is a PRB belt. If a flat belt will work for you, I have a spare for the HK that you can have. It's old but still in good condition and should last a long time.

W