SP2 & HDMI

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James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #40 on: 13 Apr 2007, 02:53 pm »
Just a heads up - we are a long way from HDMI.

james

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #41 on: 13 Apr 2007, 03:05 pm »
Besides chip availability, the manuf. probably has to go thru the licensing at hdmi.org.  Here is a link to the current list of adopters - http://www.hdmi.org/about/adopters_founders.asp

I see electronics manuf. who do not as yet have products available with HDMI so it likely is not a big Bryston priority especially given James' response (and the other cos. have apparently applied for their license).  James, I've asked (several times) before (and no answer rec'd) but I'll ask again, it is there a possibilty of having the BP26 with HT Bypass?  I understand that market factors are different for Bryston vs. a mass market manuf., but some of us (Bryston customers) love the 2-channel but are also have HT that is a bigger priority to us than it is to Bryston (and there is nothing wrong with that) and we would just love to be in a postion not to bug you about future features that could be more easily implemented by mass market manuf. and enjoy the Bryston 2-channel sound.  Sooner or later some people who may have SP 1.7s to be upgraded or are considering buying an SP-2 may look elsewhere.

Hi Phil,

The BP26 would have to be redesigned to provide a Pass-Through. The BP16 preamp and B100 Integrated does have a pass-though designed in.

If you wanted to use the BP26 as a pass-through you would have to use the Volume control on the BP26 at the "unity gain position" which is typically the 1 o'clock position. The best way to set it up is to use the pink noise test and adjust the front two speaker levels (using the BP26 volume control) to match the Center and Surrounds. Then mark the BP26 faceplate to indicate the unity gain position.

james

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #42 on: 13 Apr 2007, 05:07 pm »
Thanks, James.  If there are plans to re-design the BP26 and perhaps come out with a BP27  :D please let us know.  Do you anticipate having HDMI 1.3 capability in the SP-2 around the time of CES in Jan. 2008?  Samsung just announced they will have a universal hi-def disc player a bit down the road so perhaps by XMAS it will be available and the pricing of hi-def players will be a bit more attractive.

James Tanner

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #43 on: 13 Apr 2007, 09:01 pm »
Hi Phil,

Our next project is to look at this HDMI issue. I will report back as soon as I have any info. I know INTEL just released specs for HDMI 1.3 chips that hopefully will provide universal communication without issues.

see release:
http://www.avrev.com:80/news/0407/12.hdcpspec047.shtml

james
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2007, 09:35 pm by James Tanner »

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #44 on: 13 Apr 2007, 09:18 pm »
Thanks, James.  I realize there have been issues and that's why I have not jumped into anything HDMI.  The only HDMI display I have at the moment is the 32 inch LCD in the kitchen that will probably never have anything hooked to it besides the antenna to get digital TV reception.  My bedroom TV is a 6 yr. old 1st generation 480p LCD and I could buy a TV tomorrow if I wanted (every time I walk into my local Costco wholesale club I see the Vizio 720p $999 42 inch plasma staring me in the face :nono:).  I'm waiting for HDMI 1.3, which probably won't be in (bedroom TV) sets I'd be interested in until late July give or take a bit.  It will probably be a bit longer (the fall or winter) before they end up in projectors I might want to look at.

I do understand everyone being impatient but I've learned it's sometimes better to wait a bit longer to get it right.  I don't have either of the hi-def formats yet and am not in a hurry .  I have plans to re-buy the vast majority of what I own on DVD (or even LD) on the new formats.  When I have everything available audio (hopefully Bryston and HDMI and then I'll send my SP 1.7 in for the upgrade) and video wise (new projector), I'll start the process of thinking about what I want to do about the hi-def formats.  My DVD player will upscale DVDs to 1080p (via HDMI which I don't currently have) and I'm sure that will keep me satisfied for a bit whether I decide to buy a hi-def player or build a HT PC.

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #45 on: 17 Apr 2007, 02:00 pm »
I just noticed this new story which may be of interest to those interested in HDMI:

"Cirrus Logic Delivers First Available Single-Chip Audio Processor for Complex Decode Demands of Blu-ray Disc, HD DVD Formats

Available Now, CS49700 Audio DSP Supports Major Dolby, DTS Audio Standards and Interconnectivity Requirements in a Single Integrated Circuit

AUSTIN, Texas --(Business Wire)-- Apr. 17, 2007 As consumer electronics manufacturers ramp products supporting the next-generation HD-DVD(TM) and Blu-ray Disc(R) DVD high-definition DVD formats, Cirrus Logic Inc (Nasdaq:CRUS) has introduced a single-chip audio processor, the CS49700, designed to meet the demanding processing tasks associated with these emerging new standards. Available today in volume production, the CS49700 enables mass-market home theater products, such as audio/video receivers, combination high-definition DVD players and receivers and Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD players, at all price points.
Today's DVD standard calls for chips that support two primary audio decode surround-sound standards, Dolby(R) Digital and DTS(R) standards. For next-generation Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats, audio processor ICs must support up to six surround-sound audio algorithms, including Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS, DTS Master and DTS High Resolution, any of which may be featured within high-definition DVD disc media. The CS49700 supports each of these audio formats and is designed for home theater products such as mid- and low-tier.

With its 32-bit, dual-core structure, the CS49700 generates true parallel processing power of 1.8 giga operations per second (300 million instructions per second). The CS49700's hardware design and software features, including firmware, are optimized for audio processing, which provides a more efficient chip solution that requires less memory and reduced overall processing power compared to many general purpose DSPs.

"While early generations of high-definition DVD equipment often rely on two or more DSP processors, Cirrus Logic has delivered a single-chip solution that is available today and meets all of the complex audio requirements of Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats," said Keith Cheney, vice president and general manager, Embedded Products Division, Cirrus Logic. "Through Cirrus Logic's audio focus, we have delivered to manufacturers a full-featured but cost-effective IC solution that will speed the introduction of new products and give consumers an amazing audio experience that matches the high-resolution video."

Compared to today's standard DVD format, supporting all of the necessary audio algorithms and system clocking challenges for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats is substantially more complex. In addition to the numerous current standard and additional new algorithms that must be supported, many of these new algorithms require bit-rate processing far greater than the typical 384 kbps of today's DVD systems. For example, lossless surround sound algorithms, such as Dolby's TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio, require bit-rate processing as high as 18 to 24 Mbps, respectively. Multiple audio formats also present myriad clock frequency challenges, to which the CS49700 adeptly manages via an advanced phase-lock-loop (PLL) that generates a system clock source.

The CS49700 also offers such post-processing algorithms as Dolby Pro Logic(R) IIx, DTS 96/24, Neo:6(R), MPEG, AAC, SRS(R) Circle Surround(R) II, Dolby Headphone(R), Dolby Virtual Speaker(R), SRS Tru-Surround XT(R) and THX(R) Ultra2, which are built into the IC's on-chip ROM.

The CS49700 also provides support for the HDMI 1.3 interface, the emerging digital audio and video interconnect standard that is used to send digital audio and video signals among home theater equipment, such as A/V receivers, DVD players and flat-panel televisions.

Pricing and Availability

The CS49700 is currently in volume production and is available in a 144-pin LQFP priced at $7.50 in 100,000 quantities.

Cirrus Logic Inc.

Cirrus Logic develops high-precision, analog and mixed-signal integrated circuits for a broad range of consumer and industrial markets. Building on its diverse analog mixed-signal patent portfolio, Cirrus Logic delivers highly optimized products for consumer and commercial audio, automotive entertainment and industrial applications. The company operates from headquarters in Austin, Texas, with offices in Europe, Japan and Asia. More information about Cirrus Logic is available at http://www.cirrus.com.

Cirrus Logic and Cirrus are trademarks of Cirrus Logic Inc. All other product names noted herein may be trademarks of their respective holders.

"

MOZ

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #46 on: 22 Apr 2007, 01:19 pm »
Here is an other move from a good preamp "maker"...
http://www.krellonline.com/krell_component.php?id=88&page=EVO707

The "little one" (looks wonderful !) will also have HD audio upgrade after...
http://www.krellonline.com/krell_component.php?id=105&page=kavS1000

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #47 on: 22 Apr 2007, 03:09 pm »
Did not see anything in the 2nd link to indicate an HD Audio upgrade can or will be done.  The HDMI and software upgrades talked about in the link was on the video side.  Is there something I missed? 

MOZ

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #48 on: 22 Apr 2007, 04:04 pm »
That is what i was told, but i'll have to clear this for the "S-1000".
I would be a shame if it couldn't get the HD audio upgrade !!!
Anyway, it clearly has Room EQ and HDMI in/out !
I'm going to try it, in time...  8)

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #49 on: 22 Apr 2007, 06:12 pm »
Likely the HDMI connectors on it are on the video card.  I'm not sure when the circuitry and digital boards were designed but chips have changed rapidly in recent times as noted by the press release I noted several posts back.  Yes you can get more than compressed DD/DTS no doubt from the analog multi-channel inputs but I don't view that as ideal for me anyway.  I've seen other things pushed as being able to do HD audio which boils down to nothing more than using these multi-channel analog inputs, which usually limits to 5.1 plus you're stuck with the bass management in the player and the D to A conversion in the player.

pantone172

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #50 on: 2 May 2007, 06:38 pm »

One thing I’ve noticed being new to this board is that some people can be brutal over this HDMI issue. Having worked for Harman international for many years I can tell you that trying to stay on the cutting edge of technology can be a very expensive proposition and is a gamble for any company, especially one that builds high quality products. I respect James for being honest and professional in his approach with this issue. Not many people would do that. This company has been around for many years building some of the industries best audio products. This is with out a doubt the reason why they have been so successful.  I’m sure they would love to take your money but they obviously feel that building a high quality product is more important.

Tony

lossless

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #51 on: 2 May 2007, 07:47 pm »

One thing I’ve noticed being new to this board is that some people can be brutal over this HDMI issue. Having worked for Harman international for many years I can tell you that trying to stay on the cutting edge of technology can be a very expensive proposition and is a gamble for any company, especially one that builds high quality products. I respect James for being honest and professional in his approach with this issue. Not many people would do that. This company has been around for many years building some of the industries best audio products. This is with out a doubt the reason why they have been so successful.  I’m sure they would love to take your money but they obviously feel that building a high quality product is more important.

Tony


Tell me pantone172,

If there is no HDMI input implemented, how else can one get 6.1/7.1 lossless audio into the SP2?  It is unfortunate that the SP2 only has a set of 5.1 analog inputs.  If 6.1/7.1 inputs were available the HD DVD and Blu-ray players that internally decode Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and PCM could then be connected using analog cables.  Even then considering that there is only the one set of analog inputs on the SP2, what is a Blu-ray and HD DVD player owner suppose to do?  Do you know of any quality 6.1/7.1 analog audio switchers??  And HDMI is hardly "cutting edge".
« Last Edit: 2 May 2007, 07:58 pm by lossless »

pantone172

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #52 on: 2 May 2007, 08:49 pm »
lossless,

Point well taken. IMO…HDMI is a new technology that’s in the process of being perfected. Blue ray and HD DVD are currently competing against each other in order to gain market share. Companies are scrambling to be the first to release these new products because they know they could make a killing off the consumer who want the latest technology.  I have no desire to invest in either of these technologies at the moment. I rather wait on the sidelines with my wallet intact and see what happens.

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #53 on: 2 May 2007, 09:16 pm »
lossless,

Zektor makes a quality switcher if you're interested.  I sold my old Sony TA-P9000ES that I formerly used to switch DVD-A and SACD.  Those are not made any longer and they are more expensive (I got nearly double what I paid for it after using it for almost 4 yrs. as the Sony had analog level controls too) and go very quickly on Audiogon.

I realize everyone wants stuff yesterday.  Given the ltd. software (not to mention it is more costly) and the fact that each format is missing studio support from one or more studios in the war, I don't know what the rush is.  I have a large amt. of DVDs and I continue to buy the software I want and probably won't re-buy 99% of what I already have on DVD or even on LD.  At this point I have to upgrade the display device probably within a yr.  After that I'll re-visit options and might just build a PC for home theater use.  If I have multiple drives and devices (e.g. HD TV Tuner) in it I can avoid some of the external switching issues.  Technology is getting cheaper for PCs as noted by the below press release from today:

"New Pioneer Blu-ray Disc Computer Drive Delivers High Definition Film Playback to PC Fans

LONG BEACH, Calif. --(Business Wire)-- May. 2, 2007 Demonstrating its continued commitment to high definition optical disc technology, Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. today announces the BDC-2202, a robust Blu-ray Disc computer drive, which will be available to consumers beginning next month for a suggested price of $299. When installed in a properly configured PC, the Pioneer Blu-ray Disc combination drive allows users to playback new high definition Blu-ray Disc film titles as well as read and write digital content to DVD and CD, fulfilling their storage and entertainment needs.
The drive can read BD-ROM/BD-R/BD-RE at up to 5X and can read BD-ROM (DL) and BD-R/-RE (DL) at up to 2X speed. It comes bundled with media software that ensures compatibility with commercially released Blu-ray Disc movies. It also allows users to create personal DVD movies and digital photo slideshows, securely backup personal data and media files to DVD or CD, and create and burn favorite music to CD. The software also offers a Direct-to-Disc feature allowing aspiring filmmakers to capture movies directly from the camcorder to DVD without the inconvenience of using vital hard drive space.

"With the BDC-2202, computer savvy consumers are now privy to what was previously only available to professional users. In addition to maintaining the same benefits of current optical disc drives, the included software means users can now enjoy their favorite Blu-ray Disc movies as well as their own personal disc creations," said Andy Parsons, senior vice president at Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc.

With copious amounts of storage capacity, Blu-ray Disc can hold high definition video and audio content along with advanced interactive features and extensive bonus materials on a single disc. With the BDC-2202, Blu-ray Disc fans and audio video enthusiasts have the capability to view recently released movies directly on a computer for times when they are not in a home theater environment. According to Home Media Magazine, Blu-ray Disc film titles have accounted for more than half of the 2.4 million HD discs sold.

Pioneer has been an innovator of optical disc technology since it brought LaserDisc, the precursor to DVD, to market in 1980. Pioneer went on to introduce the first DVD writer for computer use in 1997, the first DVD recorder as a VCR replacement in 1999, the first DVD/CD writer for home computer users in 2001 and the first Blu-ray Disc writer in 2006. Pioneer Corporation is one of the Blu-ray Disc Founders.

Pioneer's Home Entertainment and Business Solutions Group develops high definition home theater equipment for discerning entertainment junkies. Its flat panel televisions, Blu-ray Disc players, A/V receivers and speakers bring a new level of emotion to the HD experience. The company brands include Pioneer(R) and Elite(R). When purchased from an authorized retailer, consumers receive a limited warranty for one year with Pioneer products and two years with Elite products. More details can be located at http://www.pioneerelectronics.com.

Pioneer and Elite are trademarks of Pioneer Corporation

"

MOZ

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #54 on: 21 May 2007, 03:09 pm »
Hi James and all,

I've got news from French MICROSOFT manager and TOSHIBA Europe who gave us the listing of coming attractions regarding the TOSHIBA HD DVD XE1 player (aka XA2 here) firmware updates...

- end of may = new firmware for better compatibility between HD DVD movies and the XE1
- end of june = new firmware with network interactivity (HD DVD titles connected on-line (see BLOOD DIAMOND ?))
- end of september = new firmware with 24p  :thumb: and High Bitrate Audio (transmission of new HD codecs audio avanced thru HDMI 1.3 for external decoding by the new generation amplifiers)  :drool:

This information has been confirmed by HD DVD European chief TOSHIBA (Olivier Van WYNENDAELE).

It also means that new HD audio codec WILL BE PERMITTED thru HDMI 1.3 to go in a native way to an HD audio equiped pre.
So, JAMES, now, you know what to do !!!
I want my 1.3 HDMI in !!! :wink:


Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #55 on: 21 May 2007, 06:53 pm »
I don't think until the CEDIA/CES (Sept. - Jan.) time frame you'll see more universal acceptance.  Yamaha just released receivers with HDMI 1.2a.  I'd expect by CEDIA we will see announcents from the more mass market cos. and by CES from the more specialty high end cos.

brucek

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #56 on: 21 May 2007, 09:55 pm »
Quote
I don't think until the CEDIA/CES (Sept. - Jan.) time frame you'll see more universal acceptance

I see the newly released Xbox 360 Elite that touts HDMI as one of its advanced features is only HDMI Vers 1.2

brucek

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #57 on: 22 May 2007, 12:12 am »
Does not surprise me.  Yamaha has rec'd a decent amt. of criticism for not releasing HDMI 1.3 vs. the 1.2a version.  It's better to get things right than quick and perhaps OK or perhaps not working properly.  I want HDMI as much as anyone for my SP 1.7.  I've bugged James about the possibility of HT bypass in the BP26 (he indicated it would take a design change) knowing it is not realistic to expect HDMI 1.3 in the really short-term.  If a co. like Yamaha has not had the resources to test and implement (and apparently Microsoft too) HDMI 1.3, how does one expect a much smaller co. to do it?  I'd guess that Bryston would have a prototype by around CES but I would not expect it in practice until around this time next yr. give or take a little.  I'm going to re-do the bedroom system (I have a 6 yr. old Sony ES rec'r and 1st generation 480p LCD).  I'm not going to think about the new formats as except for the 26 inch kitchen LCD (which only has an antenna hooked to it), I don't have HDMI.  I'll get the bedroom system done and upgrade the main system projector (the main system components sit on the other side of the wall to the bedroom TV and system components) and if and when I make the jump I want to share a player (or PC) with both systems as I don't expect to re-buy much software and I don't buy tons of DVDs vs. music anyway.  I've gotten nothing to lose by waiting and will likely save money as prices will come down so it does not bother me personally that much.  For those needing more multi-channel inputs for hi-def now (and staying with Bryston), the Zektor multi-channel switch is probably a good short-term compromise.

RickH

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Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #58 on: 12 Oct 2007, 05:48 pm »
Hi James, any update on hdmi and the SP?  Last year you figured somewhere around Dec of this year - is that still on target?

Phil A

Re: SP2 & HDMI
« Reply #59 on: 12 Oct 2007, 09:34 pm »
Hi James, any update on hdmi and the SP?  Last year you figured somewhere around Dec of this year - is that still on target?

May wish to read this thread:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45651.0