Speaker fuse question

budyog · « **on:** 28 Dec 2006, 08:24 pm »

With having speakers fuses built into your amps, does that mean all the positive current going from your amp to the speakers must go through the fuse?

If that is true and lets say you have 12 gauge or whatever wire going to the fuse and then 12 gauge or whatever wire after the fuse to the speakers, it all comes down to that little stand of wire in the 4, 5 or 6 amp fuse!

It is almost like back to the saying, "things are only as good as the weakest link". Would an AVA amp sound better without a fuse in the speaker line or a very heavy amp/gauge fuse? Seems to me, that is a lot of information we want to come through that little strand of wire in that fuse, almost defeats the purpose of good quality heavy gauge wire after the amp to the speakers.

I have not looked inside my AVA 350, so I don't know if the fuse is directly in the speaker wire line or not. Can you elaborate on this a little, Frank?

Thanks.

warnerwh · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Dec 2006, 10:58 pm »

I believe our amps have speaker protection fuses. At about 5 amps on up the audiblity of the fuse is in serious question. You can bypass the fuse internally or you can try a 10 amp fuse. Just don't turn it up too loud.

I run my 550 pretty hard at times and to this day have never looked to see what the value of the fuses are. Why, because I've been through this before and cannot hear any difference. There's been tests to find audiblity of speaker fuses and at 5 amps the ability to discern a difference is pretty much nil. Also remember the fuse is only about an inch long, your speaker cables maybe 8' or longer.

I'd not mess with anything. You can call the manufacturer of your speakers and see what size they recommend if you want to protect them. I used to have a Hafler XL 600 with 2.5 amp fuses and would blow them occasionally. This was cranking that 300wpc very hard. I put in 5 amps fuses due to being neurotic about audiblity. Never could tell the difference though.

avahifi · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Dec 2006, 11:23 pm »

Replacing the speaker fuses with wire jumpers will definitely change the sound, just as soon as your voice coils melt.

Lets worry about everything here except good electrical engineering.

Geeze!!!

Frank Van Alstine

budyog · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Dec 2006, 11:58 pm »

No, No guys! It is not that I want to replace the fuse with jumper wires or put in a larger fuse unless!

My question has to do with the wire size (inside the fuse) and how it is in line, In other words, is the fuse directly in the line?
If the power (music) going to my speakers has to go through that little wire inside the fuse, is it like having 1 little strand of wire going to my speakers? Would the amp put out better quality sound (I don't mean play louder or play it louder) just better quality sound if there was not a fuse in line where all the information has to pass through that little tiny wire inside the fuse?

Frank, I am not doubting and never will doubt your electrical engineering, just an observation.

Wayner · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Dec 2006, 11:58 pm »

Also, fuses don't see sawed-off sign waves which is what happens when amps clip. D.C. voltage is what the speakers will see which means the voice coils stand still while the are going through the D.C. cycle though it is only 1/60 of a second. No energy spent in creating work means it's making heat. Melt, melt and more melt.

Also, If you are listening to music this loud, you are soon going to be over with this hobbie. Does anyone know of any hearing aid companies?

Wayner · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:00 am »

Stop worring about the wire size in the fuses.

W

budyog · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:23 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 29 Dec 2006, 12:00 am

Stop worring about the wire size in the fuses.

W

I am not worrying about the wire size in the fuse, just questioning it in regards to sound quality! Lighten up guys!

My question I am posting here also has nothing to do with the question I posted a few days ago about blowing the fuse and wanting to go to a bigger size and it is no different then many of the other hundreds of questions like, How does your system sound when it rains, or the many about cables, which I don't want to start.

It is just that little wire and the information going through it to the speakers. Would the amp or an amp have even better sound quality without the fuse? That is all!

I have had many amps without a speaker fuse before.

defec · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:28 am »

If you have to buy a more expesive fuse for peice of mind check into something like this and get the same rating as installed. You realize that there is far more current going into the amp and a fuse is also installed there?

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1172417051

Personally I'd just forget about it and leave the stock ones in myself. A fuse with a thicker middle would be a different value and not offer the same protection as the ones used.

warnerwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:31 am »

These fuses are dirt cheap at an auto store. You can get a box of larger fuses and see if you like them better. It turns out my amp has 7 amp fuses in it.

A small inline speaker protection fuse can be measured to show distortion of the audio signal. Audio magazine did a test and showed pictures how these fuses affected the signal. At least in theory a larger one will help. These fuses definitely aren't as linear as a piece of wire. Fuses also heat up and cool off which makes their values change over time. After that they will blow before their rated value.

Don't worry about the size of the fuse unless you're worried about your speakers. If you blow a driver then you're pushing your speakers too hard and need better speakers or to listen at lower levels.

budyog · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:35 am »

GUYS! I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT FUSE AND PROTECTION OR CRANKING IT LOUDER TO BLOW MY SPEAKERS! I AM TALKING ABOUT SOUND QUALITY OF A FUSE IN LINE!

defec · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:37 am »

Wouldn't the installed fuse though also protect the speakers in case of the amp malfunctioning? I've had a amp before go out and take a speaker with it. Thank got it wasn't a Van Alstine.

defec · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:39 am »

budyog, go blow $60 on these and let us know how it works out then:).

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1172417051

daveshel · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:40 am »

OK, budyog is raising a valid point. Even if we don't go buy magic speaker wires and stick with some good wire from Home Depot, this wire will be12 ga or better, and the fuse represents a segment of the circuit that uses a tiny wire, thus becoming the weak link in the chain. So why don't we just use crappy wire all the way to the speakers. I'm guessing that the answer is that more bad things happen to our signal over several feet of crappy wire than happen over an inch of tiny wire in the fuse.

defec · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:41 am »

Musicdirect also has a selection of "magic" fuses

http://www.musicdirect.com/products/search.asp?cat_id=ALL&man_id=ALL&advSearch=stdSearch&search_desc=no&keyword=HIFI+TUNING+FUSES

budyog · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:46 am »

Quote from: daveshel on 29 Dec 2006, 12:40 am

OK, budyog is raising a valid point. Even if we don't go buy magic speaker wires and stick with some good wire from Home Depot, this wire will be12 ga or better, and the fuse represents a segment of the circuit that uses a tiny wire, thus becoming the weak link in the chain. So why don't we just use crappy wire all the way to the speakers. I'm guessing that the answer is that more bad things happen to our signal over several feet of crappy wire than happen over an inch of tiny wire in the fuse.

THANK YOU daveshel! Somebody now reads what point I am trying to make and you are more than likely correct. 1" might not matter, but with all the little tweaks we do to achieve audio utopia! I am just asking.
Geeze!

defec · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:57 am »

My understanding of speaker wire is that that thickness needed theoretically is determined by the length between the amp and speakers so small gauge for a fraction of it shouldn't really matter but I'm not an expert. Sorry about getting on your case earlier.

warnerwh · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 12:57 am »

For 2 dollars you can try for yourself.

Wayner · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 01:37 am »

Maybe if I feel like it, we are going to start a blog on electricity basics. I grow weary of all of the bullshit on this topic because of pure ignorance. For now, enjoy some music, don't worry about what size wire is in the fuse or what size wire to run to the speakers (use 16ga.).

I blame all of the B.S. on manufacturers that are taking advantage of peoples ignorance of electricity and exploiting it in the form of profit.

Next week I will start electricity basics and it will be taken very slowly. we will start with the basics of ohms laws and then go from there.

budyog · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 02:19 am »

I guess I should have known better then bring something like this up on Franks page from previous other peoples examples.

I thought being that I own Franks products and I was the one blowing some fuses for cranking it once and a while and enjoying the hell out of it , it made me THINK,

only THINK

about the FUSE and wire in the fuse, note, THINK

not WORRY!

I don't sit and worry about what size wire is in the fuse or speaker cable I am using. I have and will continue to enjoy what I have. I love Franks equipment, but I can read that there are very touchy subjects that come up on Franks page and maybe it is because they/I want to here it directly from the MAN!
Some people tube roll, others continue to debate speaker wire, I just thought of that little fuse!

Hey,, defec, No problem!

A lot is B.S. some in not! But it should not hurt to question! I have always questioned!

eico1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 29 Dec 2006, 04:20 am »

Hey Bud, your querry is that any good audiophile will ponder...!

In most cases the resitance is the only concern related to the diameter of a piece of wire. A skinny wire of one inch has the same resistance of a wire of somewhat larger diameter, and the same resistance of even a much larger wire at one foot, etc. Extrapolating this to a many feet you can see why a speaker cable is thicker than a fuse.

The deal with fuses is that their resitance changes as the current through them gets close to their rated value. That is how they eventually blow to protect your equiment, though changing resistance in regards to signal strength is usually not a good thing in audio. For example, a simple resistor does not change its value as long as the signal through it is within its rated range.

Hope this helps,

steve