[markee123]

A little problem I need to solve...

I've got a 26 x 22 ft L shaped live room with a 12.5ft apex roof that sounds fairly good. The trouble is my daw is also in the same room and tracking drums is proving to be rather unpleasant. There is a smaller, well isolated room inside the one described above that I'd like to use as a control room. so..

Could any of you kindly tell me (and no this is not a joke) if there is any way I could make an 8ft square room sound good? The roof slopes from 9ft down to 7ft, so at least it's not a cube. (although I doubt that makes much difference) I was told it's actually only one fifth of the minimum reccommended size and I gather it's likely to suffer badly around 70Hz ,140 etc which, is why I was hesitant in posting this question at all.

Ethan, what combination of real traps would you recommend for improvements?

Thank you again in advance.

Regards,

Mark.

[rajacat]

Why don't you use acoustical cotton instead of rockwool or fiberglass?

http://www.ecowise.com/green/insul/index.shtml

Raj

[samplesj]

.

Why do you think you "shouldn't be"?  One thing that isn't clear to me on Ethan's units is the fiberglass on the  rear.  Are the wells closed, with the fiberglass behind?  We do not use fiberglass unfaced in any direction.  The emission of fibers into the air you breathe is definitely a problem.  The lung association has studies on that.  I am glad you are enjoying the sound of diffusion..It is very hard to describe to people, but when they hear it, they always smile!

Ummmm..... aren't the health risk studies debunked now?  I'm pretty sure its not considered cancer causing now.  Also notice that the person posting of the dangers was a acoustic vendor that competes with other vendors using fiberglass.  While he may honestly be trying to protect users it looks a bit suspicious.

Here is the lung association link 
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35439

Please note the 2000 and 2001 studies that disproved the earlier studies.

While it is a very potent temporary irritant, once its installed unless you are messing around with it there isn't going to be any issue.  I could easily find several nice threads over on one of the other acoustics forums that say the same thing.

I do have RealTraps in my HT, but since then I've got DIY for my 2 channel room so I have no horse in this race at all.

[rajacat]

I still think that cotton acoustical batting is a better solution. Fiberglass in any form is an unpleasant material to use so why not use cotton for just a few dollars more? You don't have to mess around with dust masks, gloves and risk unpleasantly itchy skin and rashes. I know because I've seen to and have installed a lot of it in house construction and the lowest worker on the totem pole usually gets assigned the fiberglass installation duties.

Raj

[PLMONROE]

When cost is not a factor, the best way to treat a corner fully with RealTraps products is a MondoTrap straddling the corner, about halfway up between the floor and ceiling, and Tri-Corner traps above and below. The reason this is better - but again, when using RealTraps products - is it gives the most broadband absorption.

--Ethan

Ethan if one had a room with a ten foot ceiling which would permit the "stacking" of two mondos in each corner, would the above one mondo and two tricorners  give better performance?   

Paul

[Ethan Winer]

Paul,

> Ethan if one had a room with a ten foot ceiling which would permit the "stacking" of two mondos in each corner, would the above one mondo and two tricorners  give better performance?  <

Hard to say for sure without actually being there and measuring both ways. I'm thinking either will be very good, mainly because either will cover most of the total corner surface. That's the real issue.

--Ethan

[PLMONROE]

The question came to mind because like Zybar I also have rather large crown moldings which as I understand detract from the effectiveness of the Tri-Traps. Also like Zybar I am not going to cut into the moldings. So two mondos; one a couple of inches off the floor, the second suspended a couple of inches down from from the ceiling with a gap of two inches or so between the top of one and the bottom of the other might be nearly as good as one mondo and two Tri-Traps?

[zybar]

The question came to mind because like Zybar I also have rather large crown moldings which as I understand detract from the effectiveness of the Tri-Traps. Also like Zybar I am not going to cut into the moldings. So two mondos; one a couple of inches off the floor, the second suspended a couple of inches down from from the ceiling with a gap of two inches or so between the top of one and the bottom of the other might be nearly as good as one mondo and two Tri-Traps?

FWIW, I had no issues mounting the Realtraps Tri-Corner Traps with my crown molding.  The issue was with the 8th Nerve product.

George

[PLMONROE]

Thanks. Also I really meant Ethan's Mondo and Tri-Corner traps, not the Tri-Trap. Those products have names too similar. Sorry. 

Paul

[gooberdude]

Why don't you use acoustical cotton instead of rockwool or fiberglass?

http://www.ecowise.com/green/insul/index.shtml

Raj

Could Ethan or another mfgr/vendor comment on the use of real wool rather than fiberglass???    Its odd that removing formaldehyde is key to a lot of progressive products available now.     Assuming this stuff works as good or better than fiberglass or rockwool, what are the downsides besides cost?   

I'm sure everyone who deals in fiberglass would like to not be dealing with fiberglass if there's a comparable alternative!! 

[Ethan Winer]

Paul,

> So two mondos; one a couple of inches off the floor, the second suspended a couple of inches down from from the ceiling with a gap of two inches or so between the top of one and the bottom of the other might be nearly as good as one mondo and two Tri-Traps? <

Sure, at least as good.

> Also I really meant Ethan's Mondo and Tri-Corner traps, not the Tri-Trap. Those products have names too similar. Sorry.  <

It's not your fault. I believe ours was out first. 

(I'm sure Glenn or Bryan will correct me if I'm wrong...)

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Goob,

> Could Ethan or another mfgr/vendor comment on the use of real wool rather than fiberglass??? <

There's nothing wrong with fiberglass, and certainly not from the perspective of a consumer of commercials traps. Real wool is likely okay, but I assume it will sag and be lumpy etc much like mineral wool. Owens-Corning 705 is tough to beat for acoustic performance and also for its physical properties.

--Ethan

[markee123]

Goob,

> Could Ethan or another mfgr/vendor comment on the use of real wool rather than fiberglass??? <

There's nothing wrong with fiberglass, and certainly not from the perspective of a consumer of commercials traps. Real wool is likely okay, but I assume it will sag and be lumpy etc much like mineral wool. Owens-Corning 705 is tough to beat for acoustic performance and also for its physical properties.

--Ethan

Hi again,

Thanks for putting my mind at rest about using fibreglass.

Another little problem I need to solve...

I've got a 26 x 22 ft L shaped live room with a 12.5ft apex roof that sounds fairly good. The trouble is my daw is also in the same room and tracking drums is proving to be rather unpleasant. There is a smaller, well isolated room inside the one described above that I'd like to use as a control room. so..

Could any of you kindly tell me (and no this is not a joke) if there is any way I could make an 8ft square room sound good? The roof slopes from 9ft down to 7ft, so at least it's not a cube. (although I doubt that makes much difference) I was told it's actually only one fifth of the minimum reccommended size and I gather it's likely to suffer badly around 70Hz ,140 etc which, is why I was hesitant in posting this question at all.

Ethan, what combination of real traps would you recommend for improvements?

Thank you again in advance.

Regards,

Mark. 

[PLMONROE]

Owens-Corning 705 is tough to beat for acoustic performance and also for its physical properties.

--Ethan

Is this because it has more sturdy physical properties, Ethan?  From the Owens-Corning web site it looks like 703 would be superior from a sonic point of view. (See, a little knowledge is dangerous thing  )

[gooberdude]

That makes a lot of sense Ethan, thank you for the perspective...    I've managed older properties that had original wool insulation in the walls (and thin fiberglass for that matter) that slinks down into the wall after a # of years.  an 8' long piece will compact into a foot or two after a few decades.

By the look of the wool used from the link Raj provided, this stuff could od the same if its not stapled every few inches during installation.

It'd just be nice to be able to use products that O.C. or Dupont don't hold the patent on!    i'm always rooting for the little guy & tryin out natural products.

[Ethan Winer]

Mark,

> any way I could make an 8ft square room sound good? <

Yes, with 40 bass traps. Okay, maybe not 40. If you can manage 20 that will do the trick.

> Ethan, what combination of real traps would you recommend for improvements? <

I'd aim to use the one room if at all possible. With a ceiling that goes from 9 to 7 feet that is a cube because the average of 9 and 7 is 8.

If you're looking at our products, perhaps one or two of our 6 foot high GoboTraps around the drums would give you enough isolation to make it bearable. Also, treating the room will go very far toward making the drums - and everything else - far less objectionable. I'm, glad to discuss our products all day long, but forum operators generally prefer that vendors don't "conduct business" in the public forum. So it's best if you email me from the Contact page of the RealTraps site. Then I can be as specific as needed without feeling guilty. But generally, you'd be looking at MiniTraps or maybe a combination of MondoTraps and MiniTraps.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Paul,

> Is this because it has more sturdy physical properties, Ethan? <

Partly, and also because 705 is a little better at bass frequencies.

> From the Owens-Corning web site it looks like 703 would be superior from a sonic point of view. <

It might seem that way, but it's not true because that data doesn't show what happens below 125 Hz or when traps are in corners or spaced off the wall.

--Ethan