Interconnect cables

boead · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 01:50 am »

Quote from: bpape on 17 Dec 2006, 01:37 am

Well, there's a scientific post if I ever saw one

If you're happy with what you have, good for you. Congrats. I'll agree that there are tons of 'pretties' that make no no diff as to sound. Don't think what you posted is anywhere near even the 3/4 of the ladder as far as what's attainable with careful systme matching and quality components.

Bryan

Matching components? Do they come color coded?

What happens if they don’t match?

If all wire sounds the same and all amps sound the same and all CD Players sound then same and so on (assuming that it’s not hindered due to inadequate construction) then why would or how could ‘matching’ one component to another be of any consequence?

Sounds like more Voodoo to me.

bpape · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 01:53 am »

Your call. I'm not buying in to a lot of the 'voodoo' - but your post was anything but 'scientific' as you tried to portray.

Bryan

boead · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 02:11 am »

Quote from: bpape on 17 Dec 2006, 01:53 am

Your call. I'm not buying in to a lot of the 'voodoo' - but your post was anything but 'scientific' as you tried to portray.

Bryan

Not Scientific? I don’t understand.

Salk Speakers also sells speaker wire and Interconnects. The cheapest Interconnects are $425 for 3 feet and the speaker cables are $750 for 8 feet.
“…Naturally, custom, hand-made cables using these types of materials are not inexpensive. But nothing was held back to deliver the best cables current technology will allow. If these cables were being sold at retail, they would cost considerably more…”
Considerably more if sold retail??? LOL!!!

rajacat · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 03:15 am »

Quote from: boead on 17 Dec 2006, 01:15 am

Quote from: rajacat on 17 Dec 2006, 12:46 am

Boead,

What gear do you use in your system?

What does that matter?

Are you just going to criticize me?

I can tell you that I haven’t wasted my money on fancy schmancy speakers with exotic woods and finishes (that admittedly do nothing for the sound), amplifiers that claim to be superior because – well just because!

I read the specs! I take the scientific approach!

How about you?

Ah, you read the specs, a real number cruncher!

Do you bother to listen or do you just buy your gear "by the numbers". Let's say you lower yourself to actually listen to, let's say a speaker, that doesn't have great specs according to the less than perfect or complete testing gear in use today and even you have to admit it sound better than the other speaker with great specs. Do you trust your ears or do you worship at the alter of science which is a continually evolving art and deny yourself aural pleasure.

chaz1 · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:23 am »

Quote from: Brett Buck on 16 Dec 2006, 07:21 pm

Quote from: retiredguy on 16 Dec 2006, 02:52 pm
Thank you all very much for the helpful suggestions. Looks like there are lots of choices which should meet my needs and not cost too much. aa

Right. If you pay more than $2 for a 3-foot cable, then, it's a fashion statement, not engineering.

Brett

This is a pretty wild subject. And i can't believe this many audiophiles are completely on each side of the fence regarding speaker cable and interconnects. I mean several miles from the fence too. Has anyone actually done a side by side comparison of chain store wires as opposed to medium to high end wire?
I mean look at the price difference. There has to be some sort of performance difference. Does anyone actually know by experience?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:49 am »

boead :

Quote

I want to know why anyone can be duped into buying furniture like this:
http://www.salksound.com/
I mean, be real! Speakers like these are way more for WAF then anything else. You can stick these same speakers in a simple box and get 98% of the sound for under a couple of hundred bucks.
LOL!! These HT3’s on the front page are $7500!!! LOL!! I can buy over a dozen stereos that sound just as good for that price.

Duped you say....wow

.....guess Frank Van Alstine should hear about this....since he owns a pair. Good info......

95bcwh · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 07:22 am »

Quote from: boead on 17 Dec 2006, 12:01 am

I can buy over a dozen stereos that sound just as good for that price.

Hey, I'm a MD specialized in ears, do you want to come to my clinic to have your ears checked up?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 07:26 am »

Quote

LOL!! I can buy over a dozen stereos that sound just as good for that price.

Must be.....cheaper by the dozen.....

Daygloworange · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 07:30 am »

lonewolfny42,

You kill me sometimes.

Cheers

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 07:35 am »

Quote from: Daygloworange on 17 Dec 2006, 07:30 am

lonewolfny42,

You kill me sometimes.

Cheers

Denny.....I only posted what I've read....no matter how crazy it seems...

Daygloworange · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 07:39 am »

Yup. No need to make things up. They gets made up all by themselves.

Cheers

avahifi · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 11:20 am »

Friends, quit fighting over cables. Use whatever makes you happy. Just when buying cables, save enough money to buy Christmas presents, and our audio components.

Frank

boead · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 01:47 pm »

I wonder if Frank has any of Salk’s interconnects and speaker cables. I mean the designer Jim Salk say that his cables (wire) use special materials who’s design has held nothing back and are the best cables today’s technology has to offer. Oh and they are cheap at almost $100-$150/foot, so say he.

I mean, if this designer can hear the difference then why don’t others? Or is he just a snake oil salesman?

I wonder if Jim can hear the difference between sapeli and sycamore. I wonder if anyone else can.

Thanks Doc (95bcwh), but my hearing is perfectly fine. I can hear a gnat fart at 30 paces in a forest at dawn.

Lonewolfny42, sure its cheaper by the dozen. I go to Costco!

Rajacat, listen? Well now you are treading on sacrificial ground. Many here on this forum say you can’t listen because of placebo and that ONLY an controlled ABX situation can determine a difference. From what I have read, there has NEVER been any proof that a wire or even an amplifier can exhibit any differences. Once the levels are correct and balanced, it’s all the same, according to ABX.
Ask Frank and others here to tell you some stories how they pretended to swap out a pair of radio shack IC’s for some fancy high end ones and the listeners all started commenting on the difference – LOL, they were listening to the same cable!

95bcwh · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 04:52 pm »

From what I have read!?!?!!?

So reading makes you an expert? Have you ever used your own ears? Have you ever swap out cables/preamp/amp and listen for differences? You can argue that changing cable won't make it sound better, but in most cases it sounds difference. To say there's no difference whatsoever just showcase your ignorance.

"All amps sound the same"... I can't help but this is just an idiotic statement. If that's the truth, all amplifier manufacturers won't continue to exist, people like Van Alstine will go bankrupt in no time.

Just by reading, you have qualified yourself as the expert, mocking the rest of the people in this industry, those who sells amp, speakers, cables, are all idiots, a $200 speakers sound as good as $7500 one, a $100 amp sound as good as $10k one...wow...

Quote from: boead on 17 Dec 2006, 01:47 pm

From what I have read, there has NEVER been any proof that a wire or even an amplifier can exhibit any differences. Once the levels are correct and balanced, it’s all the same, according to ABX.

rajacat · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 05:27 pm »

Quote from: boead on 17 Dec 2006, 01:47 pm

Rajacat, listen? Well now you are treading on sacrificial ground. Many here on this forum say you can’t listen because of placebo and that ONLY an controlled ABX situation can determine a difference. From what I have read, there has NEVER been any proof that a wire or even an amplifier can exhibit any differences. Once the levels are correct and balanced, it’s all the same, according to ABX.
Ask Frank and others here to tell you some stories how they pretended to swap out a pair of radio shack IC’s for some fancy high end ones and the listeners all started commenting on the difference – LOL, they were listening to the same cable!

Boead,

Please give me a link to your ABX scientific tests. As far as your anecdote about Frank :lol:that's what it is, just anecdotal evidence, hardly scientific proof which is under strictly controlled conditions. If you think that your RS speakers have sound quality comparable to Salk's, that must be some good stuff you're smoking.

I'm afraid that your credibility has taken an unrecoverable hit. So you think that all amplifiers sound the same

? That in itself is proof that you should make an appointment with a hearing specialist.

Raja

boead · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: 95bcwh on 17 Dec 2006, 04:52 pm

From what I have read!?!?!!?

So reading makes you an expert? Have you ever used your own ears? Have you ever swap out cables/preamp/amp and listen for differences? You can argue that changing cable won't make it sound better, but in most cases it sounds difference. To say there's no difference whatsoever just showcase your ignorance.

"All amps sound the same"... I can't help but this is just an idiotic statement. If that's the truth, all amplifier manufacturers won't continue to exist, people like Van Alstine will go bankrupt in no time.

Just by reading, you have qualified yourself as the expert, mocking the rest of the people in this industry, those who sells amp, speakers, cables, are all idiots, a $200 speakers sound as good as $7500 one, a $100 amp sound as good as $10k one...wow...

You’re calling me Ignorant because I said that there is no difference in the sounds of cables?

I thought reading would helps mes to become nonignorant. You do much reading in college doc?

Apparently there are lots here that believe just that, including Frank VanAlstine.
Are they ignorant?

boead · « **Reply #36 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 05:47 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 17 Dec 2006, 05:27 pm

I'm afraid that your credibility has taken an unrecoverable hit.

Oh my, how will I go on?

maybe you should look up my past postings, its not very hard.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:08 pm »

Quote

I wonder if Jim can hear the difference between sapeli and sycamore. I wonder if anyone else can.

The thickness of the veneer is barely a millimeter, hardly enough to make a difference. The design of an enclosure is so that it doesn't resonate. Otherwise is would be an acoustic enclosure or instrument, one designed to resonate and add overtones. This is the last thing a speaker designer wants.

Are there differences to be heard between woods? In the world of acoustic instruments, 100% yes. Is there a difference in the sound of metals in acoustic instruments? 100% yes.

Quote

Thanks Doc (95bcwh), but my hearing is perfectly fine. I can hear a gnat fart at 30 paces in a forest at dawn.

This proves nothing I'm afraid. It still doesn't say anything about your ability to perceive things. Some of the most sought after recording engineers have holes in the frequency response of their hearing, and suffer from tinnitus from years of exposure to high SPL's, but can still function very well. Beethoven was practically deaf towards the end of his life, and some of the works he did during that period are considered by many to be some of his best.

Quote

From what I have read, there has NEVER been any proof that a wire or even an amplifier can exhibit any differences. Once the levels are correct and balanced, it’s all the same, according to ABX.

I don't know how many white papers you've read, but there are many on both sides of the fence. I don't see you even hint that there might be some validity to the other sides findings, which demonstrates that you have an inherent bias.

Even Frank Van Alstine himself has gone to efforts to test whether it's plausible, despite his experience as an electrical engineer telling him otherwise, he still tried it for himself. I am sure however, that he can hear differences in the different amps he makes. Otherwise he would still be selling the first amp he ever designed and not gone any further in developing new ones.

The NRC ( National Research Council ) here in Canada has done quite a bit in the field of audio testing and has accumulated some interesting findings. The place is filled with Phd's. I know some people who've had to use the NRC for scientific analysis (in other fields).

Here is a link to an interesting one that pertains to speakers, and explains a little more about the NRC :

http://www.soundstagelive.com/factorytours/psbnrc/

Cheers

rajacat · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:11 pm »

Quote from: boead on 17 Dec 2006, 05:47 pm

Quote from: rajacat on 17 Dec 2006, 05:27 pm

I'm afraid that your credibility has taken an unrecoverable hit.

Oh my, how will I go on?

maybe you should look up my past postings, its not very hard.

Ah, I get it! You are just pulling our legs.

BTW do you actually own those RS Yamaha's? Your credibility? I was talking sarcastically. Your past postings?

Please give me some hard scientific evidence. Is there any? I imagine you don't even know.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Dec 2006, 06:24 pm »

Just for the record, those are not the Yamaha's that appear in studios all over the world. The model that does however is the ubiquitous Yamaha NS 10 M, that been around since the late eighties, early nineties. And I can assure you, nobody mixes using this monitor. They are for tracking. They are near field monitors. They use it during tracking to hear what's being played, so they can keep track of where signals appear on channels and tracks, but do not do any critical Eq or decision making while using them as a reference. They are just a work horse. The reason it became so popular was that they were easily affordable, so artists and musicians could own them at home, then come to the studio and have a familiar sound so as not to have to get used to the different sound of the large studio monitors.

Nobody in the industry would ever mix on these.

Cheers