New Power Supply for SqueezeBox from Welborne Labs

viperrabbit · « **Reply #40 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 01:15 am »

What power and DC cables do most of you use for the Welborne Labs PS?

jaywills · « **Reply #41 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 02:50 pm »

IIRC, the unit comes with one of the volex shielded power cables (or a clone thereof). The DC cable is part of the DIY kit and is a teflon-insulated silver wire deal. Haven't experimanted with others yet. Cordially,

Upstateaudio · « **Reply #42 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 11:51 pm »

I am using the stock supplied with the unit. I tried an LAT international AC2 cord and get a lot of RFI spilling into the other parts of my system. I have a Signal Cable Magic digital AC cord on order. I will report on it after it burns in. Hopefully I will have no RFI issues.

lcrim · « **Reply #43 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 03:08 am »

Received the Welborne Power Supply today and put it together after much cursing. It hasn't had much time to breakin yet but the improvement over the modded Elpac is apparent.
I first soldered the two resisters under the PCB but when I tried to assemble the unit I went back and moved the underneath resister on the center line to the top. I don't think it would have gone together if this change hadn't been made.
Well it took about three weeks to get here and it was a royal PITA to build but its the real shit. So far, better everything, it just reveals more musical information. I like it

BTW, I bought an older PS that Wayne built at the end of 2005 I think. He offered to update it and of course I took him up on it. I plan on putting that one with the other SB3 in the bedroom system but who knows.

jrebman · « **Reply #44 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 10:50 pm »

I'll be building mine here sometime in the next week or two. I didn't like the tight fit of the supplied enclosure, plus I want to add and rearrange a few things, so I bought an extruded aluminum, 2-piece 3" x 6" x 8.5" enclosure from Context Engineering for about $40, which should be a lot easier to work with, give me plenty of room for the extras, plus some taller stand-offs.

I'm also going to ditch the included umbilical wire for one of my own design using solid core OCC silver.

I'll let folks know how it turns out if anybody's interested.

-- Jim

anthony a. · « **Reply #45 on:** 7 Apr 2007, 07:37 pm »

any updates?

Thelonious Monk · « **Reply #46 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 03:08 am »

i have no clue how a beefier power supply would improve a digital transport. could someone care to enlighten me? i'm no expert on digital audio, but i just can't see it reducing jitter numbers audibly. there was a large thread on head-fi about squeezebox power supplies but it degraded quickly. i'd just like some white papers, pdf files, peer-reviewed studies, that's all. digital audio is the only type of audio that i prefer objective measurements to subjective impressions.

lcrim · « **Reply #47 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 03:15 am »

You're correct, you are no expert.

bpape · « **Reply #48 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 03:19 am »

Scan some of the threads in the Bolder circle. Wayne has some pics of scope shots from various PS changes.

Bryan

maxwalrath · « **Reply #49 on:** 9 Apr 2007, 03:43 am »

Quote from: Thelonious Monk on 9 Apr 2007, 03:08 am

i have no clue how a beefier power supply would improve a digital transport. .......i just can't see it reducing jitter numbers audibly.

As far as I know these two things are not necessarily related, i.e. improving measurable jitter ain't the only way to improve the sound of a transport. Read the enjoythemusic review of SB's for a good summary of stuff.

anthony a. · « **Reply #50 on:** 15 Apr 2007, 01:21 am »

anyone else have a "review" on it?

lcrim · « **Reply #51 on:** 15 Apr 2007, 04:05 pm »

Presently I have three power supplies for a SB. At least for now, I have kept the SB's I own stock and use outboard NOS DACs.

I have an Elpac WM075-1950-D5 which was modded by Bolder. This is the wall wart unit. This PS, once broken in, was an economical, across the board improvement in playback. This is the bare minimum IMO for Squeezebox playback for anyone. The stock switch mode ps drags playback quality below the acceptable level.

I have the Welborne unit which is presently in the bedroom system. This unit, as I previously stated, took a long time to arrive and was not an easy build and has some nagging problems with the DC connector but the sound quality again took a quantum leap. Detail retrieval coupled with relaxation of treble grain is easily apparent. If the kit were better done from a build stand point, I would be able to give it a better recommendation. Playback is very nice, maybe not the last word in dynamics and bass output but truly musical and great to listen to.

I bought an older Bolder built PS recently from a guy here on AC and Wayne offered to update it. I don't know what components are in it but it just continues to get better and better as it burns in. It is currently in the living room system. Bass and dynamics are improved over the Welborne and inner detail particularly in the treble is very, very good. I stumbled into this one and I got an enormous bargain. Thanks Wayne!

opaqueice · « **Reply #52 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 05:51 pm »

Quote from: Thelonious Monk on 9 Apr 2007, 03:08 am

i have no clue how a beefier power supply would improve a digital transport. could someone care to enlighten me? i'm no expert on digital audio, but i just can't see it reducing jitter numbers audibly. there was a large thread on head-fi about squeezebox power supplies but it degraded quickly. i'd just like some white papers, pdf files, peer-reviewed studies, that's all. digital audio is the only type of audio that i prefer objective measurements to subjective impressions.

You're right to be skeptical. To my knowledge, every controlled listening test (and there have been several) that's been done so far has found different SB power supplies to be indistinguishable. Furthermore there are many good reasons to doubt that changing the external power supply (but not, for example, the internal ones) should be important. About the only reasonable premise is that it gives off RFI which might be picked up by systems that are particularly sensitive to it.

lcrim · « **Reply #53 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 05:56 pm »

Your knowledge is totally incomplete.

woodsyi · « **Reply #54 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 06:13 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 19 Apr 2007, 05:56 pm

Your knowledge is totally incomplete.

Of course, it is. He is looking through an opaque ice!

opaqueice · « **Reply #55 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 08:01 pm »

Quote from: lcrim on 19 Apr 2007, 05:56 pm

Your knowledge is totally incomplete.

Well, that's of course true, but can you be a little more specific?

ctviggen · « **Reply #56 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 08:15 pm »

Quote

To my knowledge, every controlled listening test (and there have been several) that's been done so far has found different SB power supplies to be indistinguishable.

Could you be more specific on this? For instance, what's a "controlled listening test"? I can easily perform such a test at home, as I have two SBs (one modified, one not) and two power supplies (one wall wart, one from Wayne). If you're near CT, I invite you to my house to set up and perform such a test.

lcrim · « **Reply #57 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 08:21 pm »

I think you are trolling for an argument.
The power supply on a Squeeze Box is a critical component maybe the critical component and its quality is an enormous factor in the quality of playback. This is a given.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #58 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 08:25 pm »

Well, I have a modded SB3 at home, and a stock PS, and a Rev 1 with Jensens caps PS from Bolder.

I welcome the opportunity to enlighten anyone around Toronto, of the difference in sound quality from exchanging the PS, in either my system, or in their system.

Not sure that qualifies as a controlled test either, but I am sure I don't care.

I hear it, I bought it, I can demo it. If you don't hear it, don't buy it - best advice I was ever given by an audio vendor with whom I subsequently spent 1000's of dollars, in the mid 90's.

opaqueice · « **Reply #59 on:** 19 Apr 2007, 08:45 pm »

By controlled I mean that one should narrow down the possible causes of the difference as much as possible. For listening tests that means blind, preferably double blind, to eliminate expectation bias.

I've done a comparison using a linear PS I purchased and didn't hear any difference. Several (maybe around 4?) others over at the SD forums did as well, with various configurations, and were also not able to hear any difference. I don't know anyone that tried a controlled test and did hear something - I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I just haven't heard about it.

I'm genuinely interested in this - while I'm skeptical (as I think everyone should be), it's certainly possible there could be some difference, and I even suggested a mechanism in my post above.

ctviggen, I don't know when I'd have time to get up to CT (I'm in NYC), but I suggest you try it yourself. Just ask someone to help you, and try a blind ABX test with the two power supplies. If you compare a modded unit to an unmodded, make sure the volumes are matched, and please post the results.