AKSA 55N with U-byte speaker cables and others ...

Jens · « **Reply #60 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 03:10 pm »

Malcolm, I know that people have been down the 89259 road. However, even though I asked for input about comparison to stock cables, nobody seemed to be able to come up with any. Hence the continuance of this thread.

By the way, I am using the Eichmann Bullet Plugs only to make sure that I have a fair comparison with my reference cable. They will be 'recycled' to a better cable eventually.

Andy, I wasn't a bit surprised that the 89259 used as is (my type #1) did not sound very good (mind you, it wasn't ugly or anything, still usable). I more or less made that cable for fun.

Thanks for your idea for a double-helix CAT5 cable, will try that one as well

Cheers,

Jens

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #61 on:** 1 Sep 2003, 09:09 pm »

Hi Jens
I don't do any fancy double helix with CAT 5. I just separate the strands, giving me 2 white and 2 coloureds. I then just loosely braid (like girls hair, using 4 not 3 sttrands). An interesting site showing this is the Chimera site.
http://www.chimeralabs.com/DIY.html

and on braiding

http://www.chimeralabs.com/diy_braid.html

stvnharr · « **Reply #62 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:20 am »

I've made several interconnects with the Chimera wire, per Dennis's braid. IC's are 2+2. I find this to be superior sounding wire.
I also make speaker cables, 8+8. The sixteen strands sounds like a lot, but if you work up to it, it goes fairly easily.
I find the Chimera wire to be superior to any other, and I've had some big buck cables in my system thru the years.
The wire is somewhat cheap here in the States. Shipping to Australia or anywhere else overseas is another matter.

Oh yes, I've used the Vampire OFC RCA's as well as the Eichmann's. Bullets are much easier to solder to, and the teflon is suppose to be good, inspite of the "cheap plastic look". The Vampires are heavy, well made, and feel real "solid", very pricey though.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #63 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 01:35 am »

A friend (Bart) bought some Chimera. I've made up interconnects, using 4 strands, terminated in Eichmanns. I've made up CAT 5 the same way (4 individual strands). None of us could hear a difference.
We were all surprised. We have compared 89259 to CAT 5 and can hear a difference. We have compared CAT 5 (with Eichmanns) to CAT 5 (without Eichmanns). We could hear a difference.
I'll have to try the Chimera again.

BTW - did you coat the Chimera in beeswax? I have a stack of beeswax (for making bowstrings (archery). I have not yet tried that.

stvnharr · « **Reply #64 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 03:39 am »

Malcolm, YES I use wax on the braid, and then use a hair dryer to melt it in, per Dennis's instructions. Gives things a waxy feel, but I don't think it does anything else.

I've made 3 IC's with the Chimera (vampire ccc) wire and one with some larger gauge vampire ccc wire (1+1). I hear no difference between any of them. And I also didn't hear any difference between them and the Coincident IC's I had.
Hopefully someone will buy the Coincidents.

One other thing about the Chimera IC's is that as the wire is enameled there's no need for anything else other than some tech flex to cover, so the wires are very very skinny and flexible. Even the 16 strand speaker wires are practically invisible, something far far different from the usual hosepipe like look of most speaker cables.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #65 on:** 4 Sep 2003, 06:53 am »

Hi Steven
I didn't beeswax the Chimera I made. I wonder?
Have you in fact ever made up 4 strands of untwisted CAT 5 (teflon), re-braided as per the Chimera recipe?

stvnharr · « **Reply #66 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 02:40 am »

Mal,
The wax is to fill in the space in the braid and dampen any movement. I seriously doubt a few millivolts in the wire will vibrate anything. The wax also does give a nice waxy feel, but I have NO hesitation in saying that it doesn't affect sound in any way. Nevertheless, I even coat the signal, output, and earth wires in the Twin 55's with wax.

I've not played at all with CAT 5 wires. It is wide bandwidth high quality copper wire. In a 2+2 configuration it should work excellently in an IC. However, as it is mechanically twisted in pairs, grouped in 4 pairs, and telfon coated as well, it would not be as easy to braid as the enameled vampire ccc wire, which is very very flexible.
I would think that the CAT 5 wire would be difficult in a speaker cable braid of 8+8 or so due to it's stiffness. And it's important to have a fairly large number of strands in a speaker cable for proper bass transmission.

The vampire ccc wire can be purchased from Michael Percy for a bit less than Chimera, I believe. I've just had good service from Dennis, and like Hugh, he is very forthcoming with information.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #67 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 05:36 am »

I've braided both Chimera and CAT 5. The hard part with CAT 5 is untwisting each pair to give you 4 coloureds and 4 whites. I actually found the CAT 5 easier to braid than Chimera.
I use 4 strands for IC's.
I use 8 strand with speakers. I found the sound goes off with more than 8 strands (an AKSA thing). As I use an active sub, I don't notice a loss in bass. A friend is using Ambience speakers with AKSA 55 and 8 strands of CAT 5. Bass sounds great.

stvnharr · « **Reply #68 on:** 5 Sep 2003, 01:40 pm »

Mal.
I presume the CAT 5 would not tend to tangle with itself as the bare wire can do.
IC's (2+ & 2-). 4 strand total
SC's (8+ &

. 16 strand total. Great bass w/Aksa 55.
I also use 2 strand in the AKSA for input signal, and 8 strand for output + and earth. Also in process of rewiring speakers with 8 strand (8+ & 8-)for woofer and 4 strand (4+ & 4-) for tweeter. These all replace Cardas wire. Cardas is also fine strand litz wire that is enamel coated. Sound is all the same, just like having everything the same.

Jens · « **Reply #69 on:** 26 Oct 2003, 10:56 pm »

Hi guys,

Very briefly, I would like to report that I have now tested a braided CAT5e à la Malcom/Chimera against my stock cable (Fletcher, not widely available).

The CAT5e is definitely better than the Belden 89259 (in any confguration I've tried, including stripped), but it is no match for my stock (and reference) interconnect from Fletcher.

The CAT5e absolutely opens up a lot more than the Belden, but compared to the Fletcher it is more "dead". The Fletcher is lively without being bright, has exquisite bass control and great soundstage, and lovely highs.

The bad news is that I've found out that the Fletcher cable is only available in Scandinavia (don't ask me why).

Just for the hell of it I'm considering bringing one of my Fletcher cables when I'm visiting Hugh the week after next! I think it may just be the exception that proves the rule, when it comes to silver-plated copper cables. No "silver" sound in this cable at all in any of the many systems I have heard it in.

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #70 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 01:10 am »

Hi Jens

Glad to hear you prefer the CAT 5 to the Belden 89259 recipes. I have found the same thing.
The Belden 89259 is held in such high regard over at Audio Asylum (which is where I learnt an awful lot about cables).

Have you tried the Chimera? I would love someone who has had expereince in the CAT 5 / Belden 89259 arena, to have a go at Chimera.

I would love to love Chimera. I have tried it as interconnects. I thought it sounded the same as CAT 5. It is more expensive than CAT 5, and is more fiddly, so I have not pursued it further. I have heard through a friend that other people swear by the Chimera, an think it a lot better than CAT 5.

I'd like to hear your Fletcher interconnects.

Jens · « **Reply #71 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 09:51 am »

Hi Mal,

Haven't tried the Chimera, but didn't PSP talk about it at some point?

If I take the Fletcher interconnect with me to Oz I will bring it to your house as well - no way I'm going to let Hugh keep it (though he may want to when he has heard it)!

AKSA · « **Reply #72 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 10:27 am »

Jens,

I look forward to this test........

Hugh

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #73 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 10:54 am »

Has anyone played around with Chimera wire?

cmscott6 · « **Reply #74 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 01:57 pm »

Along these same lines, folks, I'm finishing my Aksonics, and this will be my first experience with biwiring. I use cat5e speaker cables: a loosely twisted pair of four braided conductors per terminal (i.e. 8 conductors per terminal). I'll certainly try some different arrangements, but would it be reasonable to have two of the eight wires on the tweeter post and the remaining six on the woofer? Or is it better just to have four each? Any starting suggestions? Thanks!

PSP · « **Reply #75 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 03:43 pm »

Hi cmscott,
re biwiring... if it was me, I'd start with one run of wire and listen for a month or two, then when you are ready to biwire perhaps you can use that initial run for the woofers and experiment with the number of wires and braiding geometries for the highs.

I have been using the Jon Risch cc89259 speaker cable for years now. Jens (who has some exceptional music in his house) has convinced me that I should do some experimentation with my speaker wires. I haven't used Chimera, but I'm thinking hard about how I might use Vampire 20 ga magnet wire in really short runs (I'm rebuilding an AKSA 55N as monoblocks). Maybe if I wrap the hot leads in teflon plumber's tape it will be safe enough and then I can compare a braid a'la Malcolm's recipe vs. a simple twisted pair or perhaps a star-quad.

Peter

Malcolm Fear · « **Reply #76 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 03:47 pm »

Hi CMScott66

I have not had success with more than 8 strands of CAT 5, with an AKSA power amp. They do not like high capacitance loads.
When playing around with CAT 5, I initially tried 16 strand (8 strands for positive, 8 for negative). It sounded good, but not great. There was some "roughness" to the sound. I then tried 8 strand. It sounded great. I tried 4 strand. It lost "body". I went back to 8 strand.
I got these results, using an "easy" load (16 ohm, single full range speaker). I got the same results using 6 foot cables and 12 foot cables.
A friend got the same results using a "difficult" load (ribbons).

Jens · « **Reply #77 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 05:18 pm »

Quote from: AKSA

Jens,

I look forward to this test........

Hugh

Hmm - seems I have to make sure not to forget the interconnect. Loads of things to remember when you're going away for a month!

Hugh, I gather you're using CAT5 now - is that braided like Mal or just as is?

The Fletcher interconnect can be had for around AUD 200, when you put it together yourself. This is for 1 metre, including Bullet Plugs. This is not an expensive cable by any standard (but obviously more expensive than the CAT5), but it has repeatedly beaten so-called high-end cables at up to 5-6 times the price in my setup (and a number of other setups as well).

The Fletcher interconnect is a bit like the AKSA: low cost, very surprising when you listen to it! I simply love this kind of products

Cheers,

Jens · « **Reply #78 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 05:28 pm »

Quote from: PSP

Hi cmscott,
re biwiring... if it was me, I'd start with one run of wire and listen for a month or two, then when you are ready to biwire perhaps you can use that initial run for the woofers and experiment with the number of wires and braiding geometries for the highs.

I have been using the Jon Risch cc89259 speaker cable for years now. Jens (who has some exceptional music in his house) has convinced me that I should do some experimentation with my speaker wires. I haven't used Chimera, but I'm thinking hard about how I might use Vampire 20 ga magnet wire in really short runs (I'm rebuilding an AKSA 55N as monoblocks). Maybe if I wrap the hot leads in teflon plumber's tape it will be safe enough and then I can compare a braid a'la Malcolm's recipe vs. a simple twisted pair or perhaps a star-quad.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the kind words about my music - it's a great joy to myself as well.

The 89259 cross-connected speaker cable is not all that bad. I haven't had time to try out the CAT5e you brought as speaker cable yet, but the 89259 was no match for my Fletcher (again!) speaker cables. Your magnet wire experient sounds very interesting. Pray tell more when you get there.

Cheers,

AKSA · « **Reply #79 on:** 27 Oct 2003, 11:17 pm »

Jens,

I use CAT5E for the internal signal wiring on my amps. For the speakers, I use quality, multistrand high purity copper with high density PVC insulation. Nothing fancy; behold the mechanic's car!

My interconnects are mixed; a Silver Stealth using silver ribbon insulated by teflon, and a Taisonic, made, you guessed it, in Pakistan!!

I quite deliberately play down the exotica so I can road test with plain vanilla. This is useful because I want to extract benefits which show up on ordinary systems. Tweaking is obviously necessary to be absolutely sure the system responds as it should, but in my situation it's something I need to be careful about.

Besides, my children listen to Kylie Minogue and PJ Harvey all day long, and it drives me absolutely bonkers..... My daughter celebrated her 16th birthday last Saturday night. Sri and I were banished for a couple of hours, and on return we found various bodies in drunken disarray, one dancing in her underwear, my daughter locked in passionate embrace with a gormless youth of unknown heritage, and empty bottles strewn elegantly over the back lawn. Ah, the joy of growing up.... To cap it all, the neighbours complained about the screaming (ectasy or pain, we were never informed), and the Police arrived, 'ello, 'ello, Sir, wonder if we could 'ave a word with you?'

For a moment there, we were the Flodders of the neighbourhood......

Cheers,

Hugh