[TheChairGuy]

Out of curiosity, what is the best method , short of having a record cleaning machine to remove dried mold spots on LP's and is mold destructive permantly or removeable?

Fiji,

Contact Cleaner C by Microsorb (also known as Premier in audiophile packaging...for 30% more  ) almost eliminates the need for an electric record cleaner.  Among other stuff it cleans out - it's very effective at eradicating mold release compounds once and for all.  It's a simple spray can that treats a good 50 sides once you get the hand of it for about $14.00 at electronic supply houses.

As for mold/bacteria, there are a few formulations that kill it...I've use Buggtussel Vinylzyme (very simple spray and wipe clean).  Supposedly, the LAT International record wash I have used for years has a anti-bacterial agent in it, so I have stopped buying the Buggtussel Vinylzyme. 

[Wayner]

I have been buying and playing records for 40 years. If that alone is a testimonial, I don't know, but I just can't jump onto the commercial liquid cleaning products bandwagon.

First, let me say I would never put a dry brush to a record surface. You aren't cleaning anything. The dry brush generates static electricity and charges the record surface, turning the surface into a dust magnet. I always lightly mist my Discwasher brush with my water/alcohol formula and then brush the record surface and it actually picks up the dust and grime. You can see it on the brush. I can tell a record is in a good clean condition because the brush slips around the record surface like a freshly waxed car fender and I can hear that it is clean as there are no pops or clicks, unless its been scratched.

I have not had good luck buying new records. The quality has not been up to par with some of them. I have had much better luck buying used records at antique shops, at least around here anyway. Yes, you have to be fussy as many are in horrible condition, but I have found some true gems in the rough. Many of these gems sound better and are cleaner than the new records I have bought recently.

I do agree with almost all of you that records should be cleaned before playing. If you like to buy the commercial products, whatever, that's fine. I once thought about the VPI 16.5 cleaning machine, but then there are always replacements parts to buy and fluid and where do I put the damn thing?

Yes, my methods are farmer-like but I'm farmer-like. My method works, and the cost is next to nothing. I don't believe for one second that alcohol (in diluted form) will harm vinyl at all as I 40 years of proof. I'll get my 1965 Dylan mono out and give a listen...there just isn't any noise.

Other than that, I'm glad so many are listening to vinyl.

[ricmon]

I have been buying and playing records for 40 years. If that alone is a testimonial, I don't know, but I just can't jump onto the commercial liquid cleaning products bandwagon.

I am of the same school.  I have been getting good results using a very inexpensive window cleaner I got at the Home Depot.  It's called Professional Easy Glide Glass Cleaner.  It dries streak free, won't irritate the skin and is biodegradable.  I’ve also used it to clean glass and it does dry streak free so I have confidence that it's not leaving any residue on the record.  So all I do to clean my records is to place them on a towel on a flat surface and use a lint free cloth saturated with the cleaning solution.  Followed by a rinsing with a water only cloth and dry with another lint free cloth.  All in all this is working for me and I'm having one hell of a time rediscovering all the lp's I have.

[Zero One]

And now for something completely different.

Here are two ideas I have used for trashed records that I wanted to digitize, you know the ones, crook, full of rubbish and more noise than a jet on takeoff, not for your collectibles.

Interestingly enough these two work so well you might decide to still play the LP after digitizing, and I would suggest you make a Raw digital copy first just in case it is a total mess up, though with care you should be OK.

PVA glue, white glue, woodwork glue! YEP.

Paint the glue undiluted and evenly over the LP and put a little bit of cling wrap on the outside edge, say half inch square.  Now let the glue dry until it all looks shiny and black again.  Then grab the cling wrap and lift up the edge, you can now start to peel the glue away, with luck it will all come off easilu enough, but if there are a few bits left fear not!

Now fill the tub with warm soapy water and scrub with a good quality paint brush, any left over glue will probably turn a liitle white and you should be able to brush is away or scrub it away with you finger nail or even a stiff tooth brush.

I know it sounds radical but it really works, won't solve issues of record wear though, but the next tip will help that a bit.

Now go out to the shed and grab the armour-all and a micro fibre cloth.  Put a very small amount on the cloth and rub around the LP a couple of times.  Now don't get all defensive these discs are for zeros and ones not forever playing.

What you will notice is that the LP sounds actually rather good to very good, but don't digitize yet.  You have to play it through 3 times or so and it will sound better each time, I promise.  What you will notice is that some black rubbish builds up on the stylus from playing, don't panic just clean it off with metho or similar, it comes off easy peasy. The cart will track the worn LP better as friction is lower.

OK so now you can digitize

Now just to get in before the flaming begins, I suggest try it yourself first on something you don't like, and do just one side, then you can flame me if you feel the need.

I have seen a couple of posts of people who used armour all and then got totally abused by everyone, I don't know about the long term but it sure works short term, I feel its use on LPs is very differnt to car dashboards.  It is known to eventually damage a dash if not reapplied regularly as it dries the vinyl out,  but remember a dash is in hot sun and open air an LP in a closed sleeve at mild temp (one would hope anyway).  Anyhow for digitizing purposes on old LPs it does the business.

And now one final tidbit.....lets say you have a LP that has been cleaned and all is sweetness and light except for some nasty little bit of dirt in a groove that causes it to skip. Blutac friends.  Just take a little bit and push it firmly onto the trouble spot and remove it, do it a couple of times if you like. Play the disc, with luck the problem has been taced away.

[toddg]

Hi,

This is my first post but I have cleaned thousands of albums and here is the method that I have found to work the best. I am an audio dealer (TTVJ) and am not trying to promote anything - just telling you what works well for me...

I use a VPI 27 cleaning machine. I fill the liquid storage tank with distilled water. I squirt on Vinyl Zyme record cleaner and rotate the album 3-4 time in each direction. I then let it sit for 20-30 seconds to make sure the Vinyl Zyme does its thing and then vacuum it off. Being an audiophile nutcase, I then disperse the distilled water on the album and rotate it 2-3 times with the brush engaged and vacuum it off again. The record is now ready to play.

I have gotten excellent results cleaning it this way. You do not need anything more than a record cleaner that will vacuum, the solution and water off and a good wet brush to clean out the grooves. I do not recommend using anything other than distilled water for the rinse (we have very hard water where I live). And of course, never play your records when wet...

I hope this helps!

Todd

[lazydays]

here's what I do, but it's really nothing special or exotic:
I have a VPI 16.5 RCM, and like most everyone else had over heating problems.
I bought a couple "muffin fans" (they make them in many different diameters and voltages). Cut a hole in the box with a hole saw, and installed the fan. I bought two of them with the idea of pulling the hot air out while pushing cool air back inside with the other fan. One was enough! But did cut a second opening on the otherside. A three inch fan is way more than enough, and suspect a two inch fan will do the job very well.
    For cleaners, I started out using disc washer fluid for many years along with their brush. Had one of their zerostat guns and an anti static mat they sold as well, but could see no improvment. Later I tried everything from Dawn dish soap to some stuff radio shack sold. I finally settled on Record last Deep Groove Cleaner and a home brew that I just put together one afternoon.
3oz  lab grade Iso Alch.
4oz. lab grade distilled water (deionized water would be better)
1 teaspoon of Johnson's Baby Shampoo
1 Tablespoon of clear additive for your dishwasher
5 or 6 drops of photo finisher
this concoction really has worked well for me, and I now use it prior to using RRL. I might add that I've used about a dozen different brushes in the past, but seem to like the Hunt and the cheap radio shack red one. With this system I've cleaned several unlistenable LP's, and they actually turned out to be pretty quiet. You will have to clean the stylis after every record playing, as this stuff really brings the crud out for the stylis to pick up. In the future I'm going to by a hand held steam vac like Freemer used in Stereophile.
Gary

[Psychicanimal]

Some of you might have followed the development of this cleaning fluid on Audiogon a couple of years ago. Long time vinyl aficionados were very enthusiastic about the products. Eventually, the creator, Paul Frumkin, ceased manufacturing it because it was too time consuming for Paul (who is an attorney).

Fortunately, the formula was purchased and is now being produced by Osage Audio Products.

Paul e-mailed me out of the blue last week and informed me Osage was granted a license but that he held control over the composition.  If you followed the development of the original thread you'll remember I helped Paul with the ultrapure water issue (I have a degree in Aquatic Science and at the time was working at a nuke running the ultrapure water system).  Back then he offered me a couple bottles of concentrate to try out but I was in a nomad status and had no RCM.  Now I've taken up his offer since I got a Record Doctor in Audiogon for a mere $60...

It should be interesting.

That formula of yours sounds interesting, too.  I don't recognize all the ingredients, though.  Do you mean stuff like Kodak Photo-Flo?  What about the dishwasher thing?  Won't that hurt vinyl?  Them no spot chemicals used to rinse lab glassware are usually composed of K2CRO4 (potassium dichromate).

***

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Todd,

Welcome to AC.  I've bought from you - once or maybe twice.  The Vinyl-zyme stuff was quite good I bought from you.

Did Buggtussel cease to be and you are marketing it now?

Hope to see ya' around these parts a lot more.  I know you camp out over at Headfi, mostly.

John / TCG

Hi,

This is my first post but I have cleaned thousands of albums and here is the method that I have found to work the best. I am an audio dealer (TTVJ) and am not trying to promote anything - just telling you what works well for me...

I use a VPI 27 cleaning machine. I fill the liquid storage tank with distilled water. I squirt on Vinyl Zyme record cleaner and rotate the album 3-4 time in each direction. I then let it sit for 20-30 seconds to make sure the Vinyl Zyme does its thing and then vacuum it off. Being an audiophile nutcase, I then disperse the distilled water on the album and rotate it 2-3 times with the brush engaged and vacuum it off again. The record is now ready to play.

I have gotten excellent results cleaning it this way. You do not need anything more than a record cleaner that will vacuum, the solution and water off and a good wet brush to clean out the grooves. I do not recommend using anything other than distilled water for the rinse (we have very hard water where I live). And of course, never play your records when wet...

I hope this helps!

Todd

[DARTH AUDIO]

Easy Answer: Loricraft PRC-3 and L'Art du Son. The PRC-3 is the best recorded cleaner I've ever used. I've had 2 VPI machines. NO CONTEST!! L"Art du Son is a great Record Cleaning Solution. My records are dead quiet except where there is record wear. I'm hearing music within the music I never heard before. If you love vinyl go and buy a Loricraft PRC-3 and enjoy your records all over again!!

[Psychicanimal]

If you love vinyl go and buy a Loricraft PRC-3 and enjoy your records all over again!!

I've noticed that the VPI and other automatic cleaners do not make enough contact with the record.  With the manual Record Doctor I bought I can press one finger against the record at the suction hole and the vacuum pressure *substantially* increases.  With an automatic machine this could not be easy to do.  There's no way for me to compare a Loricraft with what I plan to do but I was taught by a mentor in my trade that the professional is able to compensate the idiosycracies of his equipment.

Since anyway a record must be scrubbed manually--Loricraft or no Loricraft--I am working on a method to do really good cleaning--and starting with a pre soak step.  Still don't know what to use for a pre soak solution.  I am aware that Paul Frumkin's cleaners have bested everything else out there.  When I get to use them I'll see if a pre soak is needed for cleaning used record store purchases.  Thing is, the heavier & stronger the soap/degreaser used, the more rinsing is needed.  Frumkin's formula uses a smaller surfactant that is extremely effective yet much easier to rinse.  Also, a final ultrapure water rinsing will aggresively dissolve remaining impurities left after surfactant vacuuming.

I'll report back after I do this experiment.

***

[lazydays]

Some of you might have followed the development of this cleaning fluid on Audiogon a couple of years ago. Long time vinyl aficionados were very enthusiastic about the products. Eventually, the creator, Paul Frumkin, ceased manufacturing it because it was too time consuming for Paul (who is an attorney).

Fortunately, the formula was purchased and is now being produced by Osage Audio Products.

Paul e-mailed me out of the blue last week and informed me Osage was granted a license but that he held control over the composition.  If you followed the development of the original thread you'll remember I helped Paul with the ultrapure water issue (I have a degree in Aquatic Science and at the time was working at a nuke running the ultrapure water system).  Back then he offered me a couple bottles of concentrate to try out but I was in a nomad status and had no RCM.  Now I've taken up his offer since I got a Record Doctor in Audiogon for a mere $60...

It should be interesting.

That formula of yours sounds interesting, too.  I don't recognize all the ingredients, though.  Do you mean stuff like Kodak Photo-Flo?  What about the dishwasher thing?  Won't that hurt vinyl?  Them no spot chemicals used to rinse lab glassware are usually composed of K2CRO4 (potassium dichromate).

***

The dishwasher stuff is an additive so you don't ruin good crystal. It sorta softens the water I guess. I tried it on some very fragile stuff in the sink, and it really helped. I got the idea about using Johnsons Baby Shampoo from a certain red head I used to date. She is a very well known fabric artest,and owned several looms and all the doo dads that go along wth them. Anyway she told me not to wash my sweaters in Woolite because it like most soaps left a film when rinsed. She said that baby shampoo was the best, so I tried her advice. She was right on, and you could see the difference. Later I cleaned a hand full of camera filters with the stuff (they were considered tobe junk due to contamination). They came out pretty clean, and then were ready for a true lense cleaning. My head got to rolling when I was cleaning an extremely filthy LP one day, and of course it worked pretty well (except I used way too much shampoo). Later on I ran across a couple home brew formulas that other analog folks had posted. This formula cleans so good for me that I almost never use my VPI 16.5 RCM anymore.
     The four / three ratio of iso. alch. to water is pretty tight. The liquid drys very fast this way, and dosn't seem to suds up much at all. I went a little heavy on the Kodak stuff, and half that is probably enough. It will loosen the hardened stuff down in the grooves that you brush just can't pull up. you'll see it build up on the needle for a couple playings. The reason I think deionized water will be better is that it has no minerals in it. Even distilled water does to a certain extent. But remember deionized water will rust about anything including stainless steels in a very rapid fashion.
gary

[TONEPUB]

Here's my process for dirty records:

I use the Clearaudio Smart Matrix cleaner.

Before cleaning I use an Audioquest carbon fiber brush to kind of sweep the
heavy dust and dirt to the center of the record and then blow that off with compressed air.

Next, a 1 minute soak with Todd The Vinyl Junkie's Vinyl Zyme (extra strength)
Vacuum in one direction, soak again with regular strength and vacuum in
the opposite direction.

That has been working very well on some really stubborn records and I have
had great luck with Vinyl Zyme getting rid of icky fingerprints.

New records, I usually just clean in one direction with the Record Research Cleaner...

Once done, I slip the new clean record in a MoFi sleeve and call it a day!

[murillo]

I use the method of glue. A white glue (PVC) that we use in wood, just put the white glue in all of the vinyl 
and spread until it becomes all white, the glue will penetrate at the grooves and melt with all the debris. Wait 24hrs and remove it carefully and you will have 2 vinyl´s, a copy that is in the glue  and a new one after this thing done!

Murillo 

[TheChairGuy]

My steps have changed in the past few months since I last wrote (several pages ago).  Now I....

1.  Clean with carbon fibre brush
2.  Use LAST Power Cleaner
3.  Use LAT International Kleer-Disk (cleaner and anti-bacterial) on the Nitty Gritty
4.  Apply LAST Record Preservative
5.  Clean with carbon fibre brush again
6.  Place in new (poly-lined) sleeve

My stylus is brushed every few sides with the brush that comes with Stylast (by LAST) and then Stylast itself (in conjunction with Record Preservative, it reduces friction, and future record noise, quite well)

Then, I just enjoy 'em as I'll never repeat this arduous procedure ever again in the record's lifetime...

[TONEPUB]

Good call, keeping that stylus clean is essential!

[tonyptony]

My steps have changed in the past few months since I last wrote (several pages ago).  Now I....

1.  Clean with carbon fibre brush
2.  Use LAST Power Cleaner
3.  Use LAT International Kleer-Disk (cleaner and anti-bacterial) on the Nitty Gritty
4.  Apply LAST Record Preservative
5.  Clean with carbon fibre brush again
6.  Place in new (poly-lined) sleeve

Do you use the LAST Power Cleaner through the RCM or by hand? I just picked up a used VPI 16.5 and have been looking for a machine-friendly way to do effective cleaning. That is, as few (preferably no) manual steps either before or after the machine. Except maybe for LAST Preservative afterwards.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey Tony,

Generally speaking...I buy new or used records and first only carbon fibre brush them and (manual) Power Clean them (often I will spritz the Kleer-Disk and manual clean quickly).  I wait until I have a backlog of albums to Vacuum clean them all on my Nitty Gritty at once with Kleer-Disc...then I use the Record Preservative (manually).

You can Power Clean the record on your VPI (manually), but there is no provision to do it automatically... if yours is the VPI model that cleans automatically (maybe that's the HW-17 model that is fully auto?).  You put three drops on the velvet brush supplied and sweep across the record surface briefly to use it.

The process I use now gives me goosebump quietness on most albums played now.  It's really quite effective...but a humongous PIA.  But, well worth it in the sonic end 

[w8aaz]

Have been using some stuff called BPI Ultrasonic "C" that I came across by accident. A liquid concentrate detergent stuff that is for cleaning optics, electronics, etc. in ultrasonic tanks. Have used it to clean some grungy old antique 78 records before putting them on the Philco! Has a nice magnetic RCA pickup with a big U magnet across a coil. Ca. 1930. Anyways, I have done the dish soap and water on really dirty vinyl I have gotten second hand. My own records never got that grungy. LIke the man said, alcohol can attack plasticizers in vinyl so I would not let it soak. Hey, we are talking dirty plastic here. Should be some labor intensive hand cleaning method that can rival using some 5000$ machinery that is more convenient, yes?   

[nature boy]

Here is my record cleaning recipe:

1)  Steam cleaned albums (using triple distilled water), from label outward to album.  While album was "moist" then:

2)  Applied disc doctor "miracle record cleaner" (diluted per recommendations with triple distilled water) on the albums with disc doctor record brush per instructions.

3)  Rinsed album with triple distilled water, using a saturate disc doctor record brush.

4)  Steam cleaned albums (using triple distilled water), from label outward to album edge.

5)  Air dried albums overnight in a dish drainer.

After thoroughly dried, I placed the albums in poly-lined paper inner record sleeves ordered from Sleeve City.  I really like these. Very Happy

NB

P.S.  - Once an album is clean, I use a carbon brush fiber to clean the surface before playing each side.

[Airborn]

My cleaning regime:

1. Clean both sides with carbon fibre brush.
2. Use Spin Clean manual wet record washer with distilled water and spin clean cleaning fluid.
3. Dry with Spin Clean lint free cloth.
4. Apply LAST record preservative.
5. Place in new sleeve.
6. Before each play, clean with carbon fibre brush and clean stylus with Discwasher SC-2 cleaner and Discwasher stylus brush.