[GHM]

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
      No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
  The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

  rollo

Yes I look forward to reading more on Nick's Dac. I'll say it one more time. This USB+Paradisea is another ball game guys. I would gladly run it up against the Lector. It will be more of a contest I can assure you. Regardless of the Cd players cost. The key is the PC being used as a transport and no basic digital cable in between the two. This makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound coming from these non os dacs. Until you hear the difference ..you'll not understand.

IMHO Nick should concentrate on getting the cleanest and most jitter free signal to the Dac chip. You can have the best trannies in the world on the outputs. If the signal is garbage coming in it won't make a bit of difference what's on the output.

[GHM]

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
      No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
  The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

  rollo

Yes I look forward to reading more on Nick's Dac. I'll say it one more time. This USB+Paradisea is another ball game guys. I would gladly run it up against the Lector. It will be more of a contest I can assure you. Regardless of the Cd players cost. The key is the PC being used as a transport and no basic digital cable in between the two. This makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound coming from these non os dacs. Until you hear the difference ..you'll not understand.

IMO, these statements are T-Ball set-ups. The Paradisea is limited by parts quality and design. No doubt the USB+ version sounds excellent. Heck, I owned an original Paradisea and I was very pleased with the performance, so I have some experience. However, my Paradisea was eclipsed by the performance of a better and more refined digital source in the $2500 range.

There are no Giant Killers in this hobby. Never have been. The constant search for one is like waiting for Godot.

Why not accept the excellence of certain products for what they are? That's a perfectly valid and enjoyable endeavor.

Tvad I have only one question. Have you tried it yet? Because if you haven't the point is moot my friend. Most of you who use CD players as front ends completely over look PC audio any way. Give it a go and then come back and tell me what you think.

You used the Paradisea with an ancient Cd player as a transport. How good did you expect it to be?

[GHM]

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
      No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
  The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

  rollo

Yes I look forward to reading more on Nick's Dac. I'll say it one more time. This USB+Paradisea is another ball game guys. I would gladly run it up against the Lector. It will be more of a contest I can assure you. Regardless of the Cd players cost. The key is the PC being used as a transport and no basic digital cable in between the two. This makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound coming from these non os dacs. Until you hear the difference ..you'll not understand.

IMO, these statements are T-Ball set-ups. The Paradisea is limited by parts quality and design. No doubt the USB+ version sounds excellent. Heck, I owned an original Paradisea and I was very pleased with the performance, so I have some experience. However, my Paradisea was eclipsed by the performance of a better and more refined digital source in the $2500 range.

There are no Giant Killers in this hobby. Never have been. The constant search for one is like waiting for Godot.

Why not accept the excellence of certain products for what they are? That's a perfectly valid and enjoyable endeavor.

Tvad I have only one question. Have you tried it yet? Because if you haven't the point is moot my friend. Most of you who use CD players as front ends completely over look PC audio any way. Give it a go and then come back and tell me what you think.

You used the Paradisea with an ancient Cd player as a transport. How good did you expect it to be?

I also used the Paradisea with a late model modified universal player (the modified Modwright Sony 999ES), so the point is not moot amigo.

Let's not piss about the schoolyard. If you want SOTA playback with a computer source, then invest in a SOTA DAC. The USB+ Paradisea is not a SOTA DAC by any measure.

Amigo a modified Sony isn't a PC transport by any measure. You never answered my question. Have you heard it using something better than a basic CD player with a digital cable?

If not I rest my case MOOT POINT!

In order to understand PC audio..YOU HAVE TO TRY IT. It isn't the same as running your basic transports.. in sound or anything else.

Those same designers of so called SOTA digital also have much to lose. if I were them I would say the same thing.

[contrarian]

tvad4 --

Please name names.

I'm currently in the market for an 'exceptional' dac. Most likely prefer tubes, looking for a nice liquid midrange without giving up anything else.  Thinking about trying Frank's Ultra Dac.

Current sys: Devore Super 8s, Shindo Montille, SB3 w/Bolder digi mod and Bolder Ultimate ps.

Thanks.

ps, I think the "holy grail" analogy might fit better than waiting for your buddy Godot 
     Isn't the journey half the fun?

[GHM]

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
      No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
  The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

  rollo

Yes I look forward to reading more on Nick's Dac. I'll say it one more time. This USB+Paradisea is another ball game guys. I would gladly run it up against the Lector. It will be more of a contest I can assure you. Regardless of the Cd players cost. The key is the PC being used as a transport and no basic digital cable in between the two. This makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound coming from these non os dacs. Until you hear the difference ..you'll not understand.

IMO, these statements are T-Ball set-ups. The Paradisea is limited by parts quality and design. No doubt the USB+ version sounds excellent. Heck, I owned an original Paradisea and I was very pleased with the performance, so I have some experience. However, my Paradisea was eclipsed by the performance of a better and more refined digital source in the $2500 range.

There are no Giant Killers in this hobby. Never have been. The constant search for one is like waiting for Godot.

Why not accept the excellence of certain products for what they are? That's a perfectly valid and enjoyable endeavor.

Tvad I have only one question. Have you tried it yet? Because if you haven't the point is moot my friend. Most of you who use CD players as front ends completely over look PC audio any way. Give it a go and then come back and tell me what you think.

You used the Paradisea with an ancient Cd player as a transport. How good did you expect it to be?

I also used the Paradisea with a late model modified universal player (the modified Modwright Sony 999ES), so the point is not moot amigo.

Let's not piss about the schoolyard. If you want SOTA playback with a computer source, then invest in a SOTA DAC. The USB+ Paradisea is not a SOTA DAC by any measure.

Amigo a modified Sony isn't a PC transport by any measure. You never answered my question. Have you heard it using something better than a basic CD player with a digital cable?

If not I rest my case MOOT POINT!

In order to understand PC audio..YOU HAVE TO TRY IT. It isn't the same as running your basic transports.. in sound or anything else.

Read my comment regrading PC audio in my previous post. Until you have heard true SOTA digital playback via silver disc playback, then you also have no idea, and the point is not moot.

The fact remains that the USB+ Paradisea is not a SOTA DAC. The transport issue is ancillary to the debate. If you want to truly hear what computer audio is capable of, then make an effort to hear a better DAC. Until then, you are limiting even the capability of computer audio.


 

We performed a comparison of a modded and unmodded Paradisea dac at the March Rave to my LectorCDP7t. The Lector smoked both no contest.
      No, these are not my comments, but the comments of the attendees.
  The Promitheus DAC is going to be a unique design with a transformer coupled output I believe. This should prove very interesting.

  rollo

Yes I look forward to reading more on Nick's Dac. I'll say it one more time. This USB+Paradisea is another ball game guys. I would gladly run it up against the Lector. It will be more of a contest I can assure you. Regardless of the Cd players cost. The key is the PC being used as a transport and no basic digital cable in between the two. This makes a HUGE difference in the quality of sound coming from these non os dacs. Until you hear the difference ..you'll not understand.

IMO, these statements are T-Ball set-ups. The Paradisea is limited by parts quality and design. No doubt the USB+ version sounds excellent. Heck, I owned an original Paradisea and I was very pleased with the performance, so I have some experience. However, my Paradisea was eclipsed by the performance of a better and more refined digital source in the $2500 range.

There are no Giant Killers in this hobby. Never have been. The constant search for one is like waiting for Godot.

Why not accept the excellence of certain products for what they are? That's a perfectly valid and enjoyable endeavor.

Tvad I have only one question. Have you tried it yet? Because if you haven't the point is moot my friend. Most of you who use CD players as front ends completely over look PC audio any way. Give it a go and then come back and tell me what you think.

You used the Paradisea with an ancient Cd player as a transport. How good did you expect it to be?

I also used the Paradisea with a late model modified universal player (the modified Modwright Sony 999ES), so the point is not moot amigo.

Let's not piss about the schoolyard. If you want SOTA playback with a computer source, then invest in a SOTA DAC. The USB+ Paradisea is not a SOTA DAC by any measure.

Amigo a modified Sony isn't a PC transport by any measure. You never answered my question. Have you heard it using something better than a basic CD player with a digital cable?

If not I rest my case MOOT POINT!

In order to understand PC audio..YOU HAVE TO TRY IT. It isn't the same as running your basic transports.. in sound or anything else.

Read my comment regrading PC audio in my previous post. Until you have heard true SOTA digital playback via silver disc playback, then you also have no idea, and the point is not moot.

The fact remains that the USB+ Paradisea is not a SOTA DAC. The transport issue is ancillary to the debate. If you want to truly hear what computer audio is capable of, then make an effort to hear a better DAC. Until then, you are limiting even the capability of computer audio.


 

Tvad you are starting to sound like a brick and mortar dealer of silver disc equipment.
Well no ones going to win this one! Hearing is believing... Enjoy!  In 10 years there won't be a silver disc player.
Some of you guys that scream this bloody murder of SOTA haven't figured out how to hear past your wallets.

[contrarian]

thanks man, I'll do my due diligence

[GHM]

Those same designers of so called SOTA digital also have much to lose. if I were them I would say the same thing.

Thus far, APL cannot keep up with demand. The designer is not concerned.

Just give it time..it's right around the corner. Alex Paycheck will be modifying PCs.

[rajacat]

tvad,

Why don't you buy a Squeezebox and a good power supply, mod it to the max and then retire your cd player and dac. Do the analog mods and forget about the dac. Simplify, simplify...... The money you save could be devoted to upgrading other pieces. IMHO cd players will be obsolete within 5 years.

Raj

[GHM]

Those same designers of so called SOTA digital also have much to lose. if I were them I would say the same thing.

Thus far, APL cannot keep up with demand. The designer is not concerned.

Just give it time..it's right around the corner.

I choose to live in the moment...not design my audio system for what will be. There is NOTHING more certain than what is up-to-date today in computer audio will be out of date in six months. According to your ten year theory, I have at least 20 product cycles to endure.

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC? Great DAC. No David.

Funny! ....where's Gordon Rankin when you need him? Read up on the PC audio thang here. Wrong page it is here Why PC will always be better than the most expensive transport.

Unless Alex paycheck's player can hold several thousand songs at a finger tip...no thanks!

[rajacat]

Have you ever heard a fully modded SB in a high end system? The SB is the giant killer. Many on this forum with very high end systems use the SB as their main source except the total vinyl heads. They have sold their cd players.

You're right I'm out of place on this thread. This is my last post.
Raj

[GHM]

Those same designers of so called SOTA digital also have much to lose. if I were them I would say the same thing.

Thus far, APL cannot keep up with demand. The designer is not concerned.

Just give it time..it's right around the corner.

I choose to live in the moment...not design my audio system for what will be. There is NOTHING more certain than what is up-to-date today in computer audio will be out of date in six months. According to your ten year theory, I have at least 20 product cycles to endure.

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC? Great DAC. No David.

Funny! ....where's Gordon Rankin when you need him? Read up on the PC audio thang here.

Unless Alex paycheck's player can hold several thousand songs at a finger tip...no thanks!

Well, you're discussing personal convenience  and preference now, not quality of playback, which is what I believe the original statement I replied to was about. It had nothing to do with computer audio.

For true SOTA DAC decoding of your digital source look to Empirical Audio, and later to APL HiFi.

For current SOTA digital playback, look to the APL HiFi NWO 2.5.

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC? Great DAC. No Giant Killer. Sorry.

It takes an exceptional transport to get a glimpse of a good dac. One of these days you'll understand. Then again with that wallet shoved in both ears you probably won't. Ho hummmmm

Have you ever heard a fully modded SB in a high end system? The SB is the giant killer. Many on this forum with very high end systems use the SB as their main source except the total vinyl heads. They have sold their cd players.
Raj

Raja I understand where you're coming from but it will only fall on deaf ears(see tvad).

[GHM]

It always comes down to insults here doesn't it?

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC?

Excellent DAC. No Giant Killer.

That wasn't an insult..just a joke. Alex Paycheck's CD player isn't a giant killer either. He builds it for the people that need the ego boost.

Didn't some one say this is the Paradisea thread? How did Alex Paycheck get here? 

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC? It always comes down to insults here doesn't it?

Excellent DAC. No Giant Killer. For a SOTA DAC with computer input capability see Empirical Audio. Until then, you have not heard what your computer transports are capable of.

Hell you haven't even heard a PC transport yet..

[GHM]

It always comes down to insults here doesn't it?

Isn't this thread about the Paradisea DAC?

Excellent DAC. No Giant Killer.

That wasn't an insult..just a joke. Alex Paycheck's CD player isn't a giant killer either. He builds it for the people that need the ego boost.

Now that's just silly coming from you who espouses hearing for oneself. There's no need to lash out because you can't afford the best. Few of us can. That's the entire point of the Paradisea. It's an excellent DAC that allows people to enjoy music. it's just not a Giant Killer.

There are no Giant Killers.

Aw give me a break Tvad..not lashing out. Nearly every owner of this player I've come across is sensitive about Paychecks player. I would be too if I spent that kind of money on a dying digital. On the other hand Empirical is headed in the right direction.

[anthony a.]

the last 3 pages are complete nonesense and add nothing to the paradisea dac thread.  i would suggest both of you to cool off, you both have valid points and non valid points.  cd will remain just as analog has remained.  pc audio is the way of the future, thats all.  it will not eliminate redbook or vinyl no matter how good it gets.  i am not on anyone's side on this, nor do i intend to offend anyone either.  its just that i think this thread should stay on topic or else we'll be hitting 100+ pages and any newb who wants to learn about this dac will start another thread since he/she has no time to read all the pages.  peace to all.  cheers!!!

[goldlizsts]

.................pc audio is the way of the future, thats all.  it will not eliminate redbook or vinyl no matter how good it gets.

Well, we shall see.  They said something similar about TV on PC also.  We haven't gone crazy watching PC TV.  Guess we're still waiting for 60" PC monitors.  Didn't they push 8-track, DVD-A, SACD also?  They haven't taken off.  One never knows.  Technology changes so fast these days, tomororow perhaps there'll be a new twist.

[F-100]

GHM,
  Can you please shed some more detail on how you interface your computer and the Paradisea USB+? What software do you need in order to play your music collection?

Thanks

[lonewolfny42]

GHM,
  Can you please shed some more detail on how you interface your computer and the Paradisea USB+? What software do you need in order to play your music collection?

Thanks

And a few photo's would be nice.....

[GHM]

GHM,
  Can you please shed some more detail on how you interface your computer and the Paradisea USB+? What software do you need in order to play your music collection?

Thanks

GHM,
  Can you please shed some more detail on how you interface your computer and the Paradisea USB+? What software do you need in order to play your music collection?

Thanks

And a few photo's would be nice.....

Ok Guys you may have missed it a few pages back. I use Foobar software to playback my music. I also use Winamp for the internet radio playback. You'll need to download the kernal streaming and ASIO plugins for Foobar as well. This will be on the Foobar 2000 website.

You can go to the secret rabbit code(SRC) website at the bottom of the page and download the zip file. You'll have to take all three of these components and unzip them into the components file of Foobar in your Computer programs.

Some of this will also depend on if you use a Windows PC or Mac. Windows XP you'll need to down load ASIO4all to bypass the windows kmixer. If you use Vista that's another ballgame.

I use Vista now which allows me to use direct kernal streaming through Foobar. All of this sounds a bit complicated ,but it is actually very easy once you know where to drop all the plugins at. The Foobar will recognize the components and the next time you start it up, they will be ready to use.

This guide will give you a step by step way of turning the PC into a transport The Art of building computer transports. you can leave out all the PC rebuilding and deal with the software upgrades.

If you're still following me. The only thing between my PC and Dac is a USB cable..no more digtal cables..wooHoo!!
Your PC will automatically recognize the Dac. The goal is to get the most uncorrupted signal to the Dac from the Hard drive.

So basically it goes Foobar/ KS: USB DAC in output of Foobar/ SRC upsampling to 48 kHz then out to DAC. I use Vista so I do not use ASIO4all as the output device in Foobar. XP users will need the ASIO4all or another ASIO freeware to bypass the Kmixer.

I have to run out to work, but when I return I can try to help fill in the gaps you may not understand. Once you get the PC configured properly as a transport. There's really nothing out there within reason that can out perform it.


Good listening

[rajacat]

Very interesting!! Thanks for the explanation. No SB needed as transport; just a dac with USB ability. I wonder how the SQ compares to analog  mods SB? The analog SB, of course, doesn't use a digital cable either but an ethernet cable or wireless. So it may be the quality of the dac that is all important.

Raj

[F-100]

GHM,
 Thanks for the detail info. There are some drawbacks in using USB+ DAC that I see here...
1. The maximum length of a USB cable is 15 ft (unless you want to use a USB hub) so you would definitely need a very quiet computer.
2. No wireless capability like the SB3.
3. No remote control. (a must have for some folks  )

Very interesting!! Thanks for the explanation. No SB needed as transport; just a dac with USB ability. I wonder how the SQ compares to analog  mods SB? The analog SB, of course, doesn't use a digital cable either but an ethernet cable or wireless. So it may be the quality of the dac that is all important.

The quality of the DAC is very crucial. I have an RWA analog mods SB3 and it's no match with the digital out + external DAC.