Von Schweikert New-VR4 JR MKII

earlmarc · « **on:** 12 Nov 2006, 04:58 pm »

Has anyone heard the MkII version of this speaker? Speaker was upgraded 7/06 and according to information on website and a dealer, the speaker is much improved.

http://www.vonschweikert.com/zvr4jrmk2update.htm

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 02:57 am »

I kind of hate to do this, but I think anybody considering VSA speakers should read this:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/speakerphysics/speakerphysics2.html

The speakers definitely sound pretty good, but they do not do what their designer claims they do... and especially what he used to claim they do.

tvad4 · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 03:30 am »

Quote from: PaulFolbrecht on 13 Nov 2006, 02:57 am

I kind of hate to do this, but I think anybody considering VSA speakers should read this:

http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/speakerphysics/speakerphysics2.html

The speakers definitely sound pretty good, but they do not do what their designer claims they do... and especially what he used to claim they do.

That 6Moons article is from July 2003. 3 1/2 years ago. None of the Von Schweikert loudspeakers made in 2003 are still in production...or in the same configuration. This reference is hardly timely or relevant.

According to some, my system consists of an amplifier that has dismal specs, and speakers that don't do what their maker claims...but damn does my system sound like music. Go figure.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 03:49 am »

The point is that VS is a bit of a snake-oil salesman. Just the way it is. Some specs are telling, some nearly meaningless, but the psuedo-scientific mumbo-jumbo that VS uses is 75% BS no matter how you slice it. It turns me off enough that I'd never buy his speakers. Sorry.

tvad4 · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 03:57 am »

Quote from: PaulFolbrecht on 13 Nov 2006, 03:49 am

The point is that VS is a bit of a snake-oil salesman. Just the way it is. Some specs are telling, some nearly meaningless, but the psuedo-scientific mumbo-jumbo that VS uses is 75% BS no matter how you slice it. It turns me off enough that I'd never buy his speakers. Sorry.

I don't know you except from your posts. You have come across as a very analytical person who is reasonable and open minded. I would hope that you would listen to something before you write it off. Especially by citing an outdated 3 1/2 year old editorial as supporting factual evidence.

warnerwh · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:17 am »

I agree that a manufacturer that is or appears to be in any way dishonest is someone I'll not do business with either. I don't care if it's a super deal for the money. Any lack of integrity from that persons behavior and he can keep his gear.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:18 am »

Ok, Ok, I should not have posted my comment. I'm sorry... please, no hate mail from VS lovers. aa

I know they sound great - they win awards left and right - some have called them the best speaker under $20K. I wish VS would be more sensible and honest in his marketing BUT that really has nothing to do with the speakers.

That many people can't be that far off the mark and if you love 'em, more power to ya.

Peace out & lets all hope that Brit & K-Fed patch things up too.

earlmarc · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:29 am »

Saw this over at audiogon: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1168375712

tvad4 · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:32 am »

Quote from: earlmarc on 13 Nov 2006, 04:29 am

Saw this over at audiogon: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1168375712

And what is the point of this post?

I saw this on Audiogon:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1166275098

earlmarc · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:34 am »

Tvad, the point is that the speakers are selling well below MSRP.

tvad4 · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:39 am »

Quote from: earlmarc on 13 Nov 2006, 04:34 am

Tvad, the point is that the speakers are selling well below MSRP.

70% of retail is a fairly common discount from my experience.

earlmarc · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 04:40 am »

That's pretty good, I wish I could say the same.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 06:58 am »

Wow! An speaker dealer using psuedoscience to sell speakers!

Geez, at least the cable manufacturers can still be trusted.

PorkpieHat · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 10:42 am »

Quote from: earlmarc on 13 Nov 2006, 04:34 am

Tvad, the point is that the speakers are selling well below MSRP.

Another interesting thing about that ad is that the seller is claiming to be the only authorized online dealer for VS speakers and offering the 10 year warranty, is undercutting the MSRP, and is suggesting that people who want to hear the speakers can go to one of the many dealers nationwide who carry them.

Imagine you are a brick & mortar dealer trying to sell speakers and you see this ad. How would you feel?

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 02:42 pm »

I've owned the VR4-jrs for 2 years and have enjoyed them very much!! And since I added the Rives PARC, I never knew their true potential

I will be going for the upgrade, but not until next year. It's a lonely cold winter here in Chi-Town. Can't be without music for one day.

And to you Paul, for your negative BASHING of VSA. I quote Col. Slade from Sent of a women. "FY2"

Double Ugly · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: PorkpieHat on 13 Nov 2006, 10:42 am

Quote from: earlmarc on 13 Nov 2006, 04:34 am
Tvad, the point is that the speakers are selling well below MSRP.

Another interesting thing about that ad is that the seller is claiming to be the only authorized online dealer for VS speakers and offering the 10 year warranty, is undercutting the MSRP, and is suggesting that people who want to hear the speakers can go to one of the many dealers nationwide who carry them.

Imagine you are a brick & mortar dealer trying to sell speakers and you see this ad. How would you feel?

I know someone who carried - and stocked - VSA speakers for years, but recently dropped them for precisely that reason.

tvad4 · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 05:12 pm »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 13 Nov 2006, 05:06 pm

Quote from: PorkpieHat on 13 Nov 2006, 10:42 am
Quote from: earlmarc on 13 Nov 2006, 04:34 am
Tvad, the point is that the speakers are selling well below MSRP.

Another interesting thing about that ad is that the seller is claiming to be the only authorized online dealer for VS speakers and offering the 10 year warranty, is undercutting the MSRP, and is suggesting that people who want to hear the speakers can go to one of the many dealers nationwide who carry them.

Imagine you are a brick & mortar dealer trying to sell speakers and you see this ad. How would you feel?

I know someone who carried - and stocked - VSA speakers for years, but recently dropped them for precisely that reason.

Yes, apparently VSA has a new marketing model.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 05:21 pm »

This explains the discount. It's on the dealers web site.

WHY THE SAVINGS...
* The 30% discount shown assumes you will donate a working component (speakers, cd player, receiver, etc) to the charity of your choice or send it in to us so we can donate it for you. This is part of our "Share The Music" campaign to provide music to those less fortunate, please support our program. For more details on this program: click here.

tvad4 · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: DARTH AUDIO on 13 Nov 2006, 05:21 pm

This explains the discount. It's on the dealers web site.

WHY THE SAVINGS...
* The 30% discount shown assumes you will donate a working component (speakers, cd player, receiver, etc) to the charity of your choice or send it in to us so we can donate it for you. This is part of our "Share The Music" campaign to provide music to those less fortunate, please support our program. For more details on this program: click here.

Seems like a good deal. No restrictions on the value of the donated component?

It's first and foremost marketing. Clearly VSA reaps no benefit from the donation other than potential new sales.

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Nov 2006, 05:37 pm »

I agree!! I'm going to find out if I can get a discount on the upgrade if I donate an equalizer I'm not using?? That seems fair