Average system cost

TONEPUB · « **on:** 9 Oct 2006, 02:06 pm »

Hello:

Im doing a bit of research. The two biggest complaints I get at TONE-Audio is that we don't cover gear that is affordable enough and we don't cover gear that is expensive enough! It's about 50-50, so I am very curious as to what you all think is a reasonable amount of money to spend on a hifi system. Obviously, if you just have one playback source, it will be less expensive.

Also, many people buy used gear, which I personally think is a great idea, considering there are some of us that are more obsessed than others and tend to go through gear a bit rapidly. DIY stuff is also a great way to save a buck if you are handy with a soldering iron, as you arent paying for a mfrs distribution chain, service center or other general overhead.

But really considering a decent system, we all felt that while the super spendy gear is a lot of fun to review, the average audiophile (whether single or having 2.3 kids and a dog) probably spends in the neighborhood of $2000-$10000 on a system.

Would some of you be so kind to enlighten me on your thoughts?

Thanks,

Jeff Dorgay
Publisher
TONE-Audio

totoro · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 02:25 pm »

I'd say between 2k-10k is just about right, with a realistic take on what percentage should be on tweaks, ie not more than 10%, at most. Maybe the mean at about 5k, with a normal distribution, so not skewed up to 10k, either.

This is clearly _not_ where most audio magazines are aiming, and I'd bet the population of people owning systems in this price range is a _lot_ higher than those owning systems where one component is > 10k.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 02:37 pm »

Thanks for the reply! I would agree with you as well. We are definitely trying to mix it up as much as we can and when we launch our new website this month, we will have a lot more entry level gear there.

What I think some of the high end mfrs forget is that you need to start somewhere, and some people will only spend 2-5k on a system, period. Much as I like gear, I always tell people to buy more music first!!

MaxCast · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 03:29 pm »

That range works for me.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 03:34 pm »

From a dealer point of view, I can only state what my customers spend on average. While there are a few that have well over $100k into their systems, I would say the average consumer is in the range of $8k-$10k for a complete system.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 03:39 pm »

As an avid reader of audio magazines I like to see variety. Anything from $100 to the sky is the limit. That way you can see trickled down technology to the more affordable gear. Plus I like to dream. But most importantly affordable gear is a must since it out sells the TOTL no holds bar gear.

fajimr · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 03:45 pm »

Jeff

2-10K is a pretty wide spread and one that would certainly cover most average audiophiles (does that mean the audiophools spend over 10k???

probably not- just means they have more disposable income).

I am in the lower range of that spread.. probably closer to 3k. That's way more than I ever thought I would spend but it's funny how priorites change... especially when one spends too much time here

it will be interesting to see what you come up with- I wonder what slice of the audiophile population you have here in the circle?

TONEPUB · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 03:55 pm »

I agree with you, I know it's a wide spread, but I was assuming about 2k on a preamp, the same on an amp, about 1000 on a CD player perhaps another 1-2k on a table/cartridge/phono preamp and the rest on speakers or perhaps some better cables, power cords, power conditioner or even a rack.

Unfortunately it adds up pretty fast.

I too am very curious to see where the higher end of the range will go. I have a pretty ridiculous amount of $$ tied up in this stuff, but it's what I do all day, so I can justify a bit more than the average guy fighting his wife for gear. I've read some posts on other forums and my heart really goes out to these guys whos wives just hate it that they enjoy music and audio...

And some of us just have other priorities like kids in college, etc. Me, I drive cheap cars and my office is behind my house, so the money I would spend on an expensive car and commuting to work I can spend on hifi and records! It's all priorities.

R_burke · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 04:14 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 9 Oct 2006, 03:34 pm

From a dealer point of view, I can only state what my customers spend on average. While there are a few that have well over $100k into their systems, I would say the average consumer is in the range of $8k-$10k for a complete system.

This would be my guess also ($8K - $10K)

ricmon · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 04:21 pm »

I'm not rich but there are people on this forum who are dropping 4 to 5 g's on speakers alone. I happen to be on of them. Having said that I don't think the rest of my system is very exspensive. However your top range should be a little higher say around 20 g's.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 04:47 pm »

Hope this isn't a nuisance post. It's related at least. I think, if you are slow, picky & deliberate about putting together a system, once you go past about $1500, if the room's acousics aren't addressed money is being wasted.

Ideally shoppers should be able to hear in one location 2 well-picked identical systems priced around $2k. One system would be a in a well-treated room, the other a normal crummy untreated room same dimensions as the first. That's all they'd need to convince them to spend money on acoustics before hardware.

My 2c.

ricmon · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: RibbonSpeakers.net on 9 Oct 2006, 04:47 pm

Hope this isn't a nuisance post. It's related at least. I think, if you are slow, picky & deliberate about putting together a system, once you go past about $1500, if the room's acousics aren't addressed money is being wasted.

Ideally shoppers should be able to hear in one location 2 well-picked identical systems priced around $2k. One system would be a in a well-treated room, the other a normal crummy untreated room same dimensions as the first. That's all they'd need to convince them to spend money on acoustics before hardware.

My 2c.

I would like to see a system put together for that amount from manufactures on the AC. I don't think it can be done. However I just upgraded my spealers sans room treatment and the difference is staggering.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 06:12 pm »

You are right about sources. I'd pick an NAD HT reciever/DVD player, MSRP $1k, available for about $700 or so. Speakers would be a pair of BIC floorstanders available for about $500pr MSRP. That's $1200 total.

I'd wager 95%+ of the audiophiles prefering hardware upgrades over acoustic treatments have no to very little experience w/ the latter. Hardware upgrades are more fun, fascinating, easier to understand & easily accomplished than are acoustic upgrades. There are good reasons pro music studios spend thousands on acoustic treatments; none advertise "No acoustic treatments! Better equipment!"

That said, I'm sure your new speakers are better, & all that matters in the end is that you are happier w/ them. AC members don't have as their goal to make a good system for someone else's ears!

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:00 pm »

Quote

Average is a relative term, and impossible to define.............

This is very true. There is really no way of knowing for sure what the "average" consumer or even audiophile spends on a system. DIY'ers will get more bang for their buck but they are a small part of the audio world equation. Not everyone has the knowledge, means or even time to get involved in DIY.

There are those who want to pay no more than $1500 on a complete system and those who will pay that much on an interconnect cable. On the upper end of the scale, say above $100k, you are dealing with a different breed. There are far too many levels of audio consumers to come to a legitimate consensus.

You could do a POLL of a predetermined number of people but finding an unbiased group would be difficult at best. I don't think polling any of the audio discussion boards would produce accurate numbers.

If you were to poll a general group of audio consumers, I think you would find numbers all over the place from $500-$100K+. Even here at the circle, the range is all over the place.

There is a discussion on A-Gon on this same topic. You should see the range.

Joules · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:38 pm »

It's not so much the absolute cost that matters it's what you get for your money.
I don't mind spending the bucks if it's a good value and it does exactly what I want (within reason). A good deal is just a waist if it's not what I want or doesn't preform.

BobM · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:48 pm »

I've always been a big proponent of buying used and DIY. This has helped my build a fine sounding system for about half what I would have spent new. Of course this doesn't help you retailers trying to determine an "average cost", sorry.

I think most people hearing $2000 for a 2 channel system would cringe, but wouldn't even shrug when hearing $2000 for a home theatre system. But as we all know, $2000 for a home theatre system is probably light and would be hard to do correctly. On the other hand, $10,000 for anything is a lot of money, but probably closer to the truth of the matter if you want quality components approaching very good (and not just above average) sound.

Just a thought, but maybe a visual sales tool is in order, equating the cost curve of the components you sell against the sound quality curve. Clearly it would flatten at the top, but it could help the consumer see what kind of improvements they could expect for that extra $1000-$2000 that they would need to spend to get to the next level.

Enjoy,
Bob

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:51 pm »

I think if you've spent $30k and your system is 'average' then you did something wrong!

amplifierguru · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 07:52 pm »

But are you getting VALUE when the average US name brand piece of equipment that sells for $1K left the contract manufacturer in Taiwan or China (ex factory) for ~$100!

lcrim · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Oct 2006, 08:52 pm »

I tend to look for audio stuff that gets me closer to the best for very reasonable dollar costs. The last few percentage points are going to throw the bang for buck curve all to hell. Power conditioning and room treatments for instance result in huge gains for very low expenditures of cash.
I went to PC based digital playback like many here because it offered tremendous potential for quality sound at an attractive outlay.
I agree that quality components can be had used very reasonably. DIY, if its not too difficult can be very satisfying as well. But I freely admit that I don't understand marketing very well because a $300 Squeeze Box w/ a few hundred dollars worth of mods makes sense to me but the $2000 Transporter will be a marketing success mostly because its price legitimizes the concept.
I identify with the esoteric, small manufacturer who's concerned with not only the quality of his product but also with the relationship he has with his customers. I think the market place will weed out the pretenders eventually.

Daygloworange · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Oct 2006, 01:21 am »

What's the average audiophile/enthusiast system worth? Interesting question. I wonder if there's a way to do an anonymous tally among people in the circle here? Just for fun. Break it down. 1k to 2.5k....2.5k to 5k....5k to 10k....and so on.

Could it be done?