front projector recommendations

PhilNYC · « **on:** 3 Oct 2006, 03:38 pm »

A friend of mine is looking to build a media room in his house, and he's interested in getting a front projector in a range of $2K-$5K. Any suggestions? Still debating whether 1080p is important to him, but he'll likely have a decent AV receiver...will rely on its video switching, so I don't know if there's an AV receiver out there with HDMI switching built-in (so he may be "stuck" with component video)...

tvyankee · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 03:44 pm »

this one just came out and looks like its getting good press already.

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Panasonic-PT-AX100U.php

good luck

ctviggen · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 04:05 pm »

2-5k is a big range. There are several 1080p projectors in that range, including the Sony Pearl (VPL-VW50), Mitsubishi HC5000, and Panasonic AE-1000u. Unfortunately, only the Pearl is out now with reviews. The Panasonic AX-100U is a 720p machine with great reviews:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax100.htm
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/panasonic/PT-AX100U/index.asp

It has great brightness and flexibility in installation. Brightness can be very important, depending on screen size. The Mitsubishi sounds like a great machine, too, with a great processor (good upconversion). People are raving about the Pearl. There's a lot of info about the Mitsu and AE-1000u, but neither has many actual reviews as of yet.

I'm going through this process myself. I'm leaning toward the Panny ax100u, mainly because of the great reviews and high lumen output. I'm thinking of buying a relatively large screen (106-110 inch diagonal), but with a screen gain of only 0.95. So, I need some lumen output, and the Pearl just doesn't cut it for that.

The ax100u only has one HDMI input. I believe some of the others have two HDMI inputs.

klh · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 04:36 pm »

I'm debating between that one and the new Mitsubishi HC5000.

The lower priced Panny MSRPs for $2000, but is only 720p. The advantages are it much more refined than the Panny 900U, it does intake 1080p/24 (and down converts it to 720p) so there isn't any jutter, has improved contrast (for a D5 panel), a better DI, the smoothscreen technology is more refined and it is a light canon. The Panny only has a 1 year warrantee.

The Mitsu is 1080p (MSRP $4,500) and a very good one at that. It can basically take in and display (without alteration) any signal sent to it. It is also better than the lower priced Panny in every category except lumen output. It has the newer D6 panel with C2Fine technology so it has much better contrast. It also has a dead silent fan, great optics (glass) and a state of the art video processor. It also has a 2 year warrantee and the bulb lasts up to 5,000 hours! The only potential downfall is the DI is of unknown quality. If it is like the rest of the PJ, it will make the PJ better, but if poorly made, it could definitely be a distraction. User reviews will say whether it is good or not, I just haven't seen any yet.

I beleive the Panny is nice and practical, but something that will only be good for 2-3 years. I think the technology will pass it up. The Mitsu, on the other hand, seems to be one of those projectors that can last 5+ years. The way I break it down is if the budget is truly $5,000, then I would definitely go for the Mitsu. It's just an unbelievable projector for the money. On the other hand, if money is of concern, or more importantly ambient light cannot be controlled, I would opt for the Panny. The way I see it, if the picture is washed out d/t excess light, it doesn't matter how much potential the PJ has.

This is just one man's opinion.

hometheaterdoc · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 05:10 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 3 Oct 2006, 03:38 pm

A friend of mine is looking to build a media room in his house, and he's interested in getting a front projector in a range of $2K-$5K. Any suggestions? Still debating whether 1080p is important to him, but he'll likely have a decent AV receiver...will rely on its video switching, so I don't know if there's an AV receiver out there with HDMI switching built-in (so he may be "stuck" with component video)...

Good recommendations thus far on the video. There are a few other choices out there, especially if the owner doesn't mind sticking to 720P. He needs to decide where in the range he wants to be and what kind of setup (screen size, amibient light conditions, room colors) and that will either bring some to the forefront, or eliminate some projectors from the running. It's the compromise between projector light output, screen size, viewing distance, and lighting conditions in the room.

As to the receiver issue, the Denon 3806 has HDMI switching (2 in 1 out) as well as transcoding of Svideo, composite and component to HDMI. So there is only one cable to the projector. It's not world class transcoding, but it's not bad at all. I've yet to encounter an issue with the HDMI on the Denon as far as handshake problems, etc. A couple cable boxes were finnicky, but did work. The Denon also has the Audyssey system built in which I've found to be better than all the other competing "room correction" systems in other receivers that are just a couple bands of parametric EQ.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 05:21 pm »

If you are ok with 720p, check this incredibly positive review on the new Panny:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax100.htm

This pj received a rare 5 stars (out of 5) in each category!!

George

ctviggen · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 05:22 pm »

I've found trying to find a front projector to be very perplexing. The technology is advancing by leaps and bounds, as there are now at least three 1080p projectors below 5k (with the Panasonic supposedly going to be less than 3,500). You also have to know how big of screen you need in order to determine lumen output of the projector. However, there's also interplay between screen gain and projector lumens. I'm looking at a screen gain of about 0.95 (for a screen research electronic, acoustically-transparent screen). However, Da-lite offers a high power screen having a gain of 2.8. Then, there are white screens and grey screens, each with certain purported benefits and detriments. Further, some of the screen manufacturers (such as Carada) only make screens for non-pulldown/electronic systems. In my case, I have to have an electronic system. If you need a pulldown/electronic system, then there's the whole tensioned/non-tensioned debate. And, screens can vary from a few hundred dollars (say, Greywolf II) to many, many thousands of dollars (Stewart/Screen Research with masking systems). As with audio, there's constant bickering about whether Screen A, which is much more than Screen B, is worth the cost for the (supposedly) incremental increase in performance.

Then, unless you know someone who has a projector, you can't really see any of these in action. I'll be basing my entire system on a projector and a screen I've never seen (although I do have the opportunity to see similar models). It's the epitome of buying blind.

For me, I would prefer to have a brighter projector, if this is possible. While my room will be light controlled, it would be fun to have people over for football games without being in a completely dark room. Plus, my system might be the only "tv" we have in the house. It would be nice to turn on a light without completely washing out the picture. Thus, I'm leaning toward the Panasonic, even though the other 1080p projectors, including the Mitsu, are very nice. I'm also leaning toward the Panasonic because to really take advantage of these large screens, one needs to get HD-DVD/Bluray. That's another 500-1,000+ right there. Also, in my case, I'll have to rip out drywall, which will lead to another expense of having someone redo the drywall. Then, my Proceed AVP, while being a kickbutt preamp, does not provide any type of component or HDMI switching. If I need component or HDMI switching, I'll need to get another preamp. For me, I'll have to buy some greyscale calibration equipment, too. The costs keep going up and up and up...

Thus, I'm leaning toward the Panasonic as I perceive it to have a very good picture while also providing brightness and allowing me to purchase some other stuff. Then, in a few years when the latest 1080p projectors have 2000+ lumens, I'll upgrade. Or maybe I'll just get a 1080p now; it's too confusing! Luckily, I have at least several months before I'll buy, so I'll get to see more reviews and read about all the problems the early adapters are having.

Good luck on the purchase!

ctviggen · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 05:25 pm »

By the way, I mean I'm leaning toward the Panny ax-100u 720p projector, not the Panny AE-1000u 1080p projector.

klh · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 07:02 pm »

Me, too. For the same reasons as you, too. The AX-100U is an all around performer and in 4-6 months time it will likely sell for about $1,500 street (with rebates)... if not less. I'd love to have the Mitsu, but one could probably get more for the differnce in cost in 2-3 years. In the meantime, 720p will be sufficient since there won't be a lot of 1080p content for at least another year or 2, if not 3. The other thing is it looks like Costco will sell the AX-100U so the 1 year warrantee will be of no concern.

JoshK · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 08:56 pm »

I was seriously looking at PJ's a couple months back and had my eye on the Panasonic as a first foray into the FPJ scene. I think it could hold you over for at least a few years until the 1080p market settles in.

My problems are two fold. First, I wanted to use a PJ in my living room which is not controlled for lighting but it is relatively dark most of the time. Second my room dictates that the PJ get mounted 8-9' up and about 10-11' back. When I did the math this seemed to be too much pitch, I am not sure what one is suppose to do here. Ideally my screen would be only 72" diagonal given where it will be mounted.

zybar · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 09:10 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 3 Oct 2006, 08:56 pm

I was seriously looking at PJ's a couple months back and had my eye on the Panasonic as a first foray into the FPJ scene. I think it could hold you over for at least a few years until the 1080p market settles in.

My problems are two fold. First, I wanted to use a PJ in my living room which is not controlled for lighting but it is relatively dark most of the time. Second my room dictates that the PJ get mounted 8-9' up and about 10-11' back. When I did the math this seemed to be too much pitch, I am not sure what one is suppose to do here. Ideally my screen would be only 72" diagonal given where it will be mounted.

Josh,

With the lens shift ability of the Panny, I don't see why that config you described wouldn't work.

George

ctviggen · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 10:20 pm »

How far is the 8-9 feet above the top of the screen? That's the deciding factor as to whether the Panny's lens shift will work. This http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax100.htmstates the following:

Quote

However, if you wish to ceiling mount, you can shift the lens such that, once the projector is inverted, the top edge of the image is below the centerline [of the lens] by about 16% of the picture height.

A 72 inch diagonal is about 35 inches in height. So, 16% of this would be around 5 inches, meaning that the centerline of the lens can be a maximum of 5 inches above the top of the screen.

Also, according to my calculator, you'd get about 30 foot lamberts using the Panny in low mode (around 500 lumens according to one of the reviews) with a screen with a gain of 1.0. Considering that 12-16 ftL are considered good, your system would be plenty bright, especially considering the Panny can pump out another 1000 lumens if necessary.

jermmd · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 11:06 pm »

Good discussion so far but why isn't the Sony Pearl getting more consideration. It is clearly the best sub $5k projector right now-if you can believe AVSforum pundits. Of course there may be better and cheaper options in 6 months but why wait? The truth is "last years" Panny 900u will satisfy most people. It really is an exceptional projector. I wonder what used Panny's are going for right now?

JoshK · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Oct 2006, 11:47 pm »

Bob,

I came up with similar numbers. 5" less than 8-9' for the top of the screen is too high for it to seem right. With approx 3' height and the top ~8' the bottom would be 5'. That is a bit high when seated 9' back.

klh · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Oct 2006, 01:14 am »

Have there been new reports of the Pearl Vs. the Mitsu? I hadn't gather the Pearl was that much better. What I gathered is that the Mitsu's room at CEDIA was horrible so a comparison to the Pearl couldn't be made. The Pearl has better native contrast, but the Mitsu may have better optics and a better video processor. What impact these have can only be determined in a side by side and I haven't heard of that happening as of yet. I hope it happens soon!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 12:23 am »

In that price range ($3k-$5k) I'd probably go with the Mits, or one of the new Optoma's. The Panasonic PT-AX100U certainly sounds tempting- seems like they kept all the good points of the AE-900U while fixing it's faults. The non-organic LCDs should last much longer and supposedly they've completely banished VB issues. Add the superior SmoothScreen technology and you have a winner.

However, I myself am 98% certain that I'm going to buy an Optoma HD70. The actual street price is $999 and it uses the precise same mount as my current H31. The offset & optics isn't nearly as flexible as the Panny, but I'm fortunate that it's well within the parameters of my own HT rig. And I'm just a big fan of DLP (although I haven't yet seen the Panasonic PT-AX100U; that's where the 2% comes in!

).

zybar · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 12:42 am »

Nobody has mentioned the excellent Samsung pj:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/samsung_sph710.htm

By all accounts, this pj will produce some of the best images out there.

It was designed with Joe Kane (Image Science Foundation founder) and is one of the few display devices that can be set to exact levels that professional gear is set to.

Jim Doolittle (the person who did an outstanding job calibrating my Sony SXRD tv) told me that the Samsung was the best pj he has seen and/or calibrated due to the fact it can be correctly and fully calibrated.

Anyway, just another possible choice.

George

klh · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Oct 2006, 05:18 pm »

It's a wonderful time to get a PJ. So many options, and unless one is super picky, he should be happy with just about anything he gets. For me, the main issues are will I be able to mount it in my room, will I or my friends/family be sensitive to the PJ's downfalls (RBE, VB, SDE, video processing ability or lower CR), does it have the resolution/options that I want and does it fit into my budget? After answering those questions, the possibilites come down a bit. Then it's up to the reviews (hopefully side by sides) both in person and done by professionals and ultimately ones own preferance. If you can wait a month or so there should be more professional reviews of the new PJs... since personal viewing can be hard to come by, I'd wait until more comparisons are made.

Ears · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Oct 2006, 12:56 pm »

I guess I am in the minority that thinks 1080p is the way to go, even if it means waiting for a few more months for the DLP models to come down in price as I definitley prefer the pop of DLP.

I am going to wait about 6 months and keep using my Optoma H-78 dc3 and see if I can pick up an H-81 1080p model with outboard Genum scaler for 5k by that time.

Imo... the H-81 is the pj on the market to beat at 10k or less at this time.

levesque · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Oct 2006, 03:18 am »

Quote from: Ears on 8 Oct 2006, 12:56 pm

Imo... the H-81 is the pj on the market to beat at 10k or less at this time.

Not at all.

The projector to beat right now is the Sony Pearl. I was able to compare last week in my dedicated room a Optoma H81 to my Sony Ruby paired with a Gennum VXP scaler (Anthem D2) and the Ruby was simply better then the Optoma.

Fully tweaked and calibrated, with some iris tweaks giving me a CR of 22000:1, the Ruby was just better. More film-like, more smooth, more details in dark scene. With the H81, you have some weird "artificial" digital sharpness, while the Ruby is like an "old school" CRT. Also, my wife was feeling dizzy and was having headaches with the DLP after only 30 minutes.

With the Ruby, she can easily pass through the 3 LOTR films w/o any problems. Those 1 chip DLPs with color wheels are a thing of the past. Too much artifacts. The H81 was a real deception for me. With HD-DVD and Blu-ray disks, the Sony Ruby was just better, smoother, and more film-like.