Speaker recommendation for 8 watts from WE 300B tubes.

woodsyi · « **on:** 30 Sep 2006, 05:14 pm »

I couldn't help myself. I have been meaning to try a true SET amp. When MCA put his Duetto on sale, I just had to take a flier and see if he would go along. We eventually came to an agreement and I finally will have a 300B amp to try. I have also drooled over Gorden Rankin's stuff for a while as well. So this is a good deal for me. As I have posted before, I am a sucker for female vocals. I don't even know where in my house it's going but I want to try it in the main listening room first. Since none of my speakers are higher than 89dB, I think I need a pair of speakers with higher sensitivity. Given 16' x 22' well treated room, 8 watts SE power at 8 ohms and wanting fantastic female vocal playback, what speakers would you recommend? I think I want moderately sized monitors rather than floorstanders. I want enough bass to get the right vocal coloration but I don't need no butt shaker. Omega comes to mind and there is one Visitation 200 aperiodic A8's on sale on Audiogon but I don't know if they would be a good match. Any thoughts?

Dmason · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 05:23 pm »

I tried my Omega SuperHemps with Wright 300B and it was stunning. Truly amazing, such that I offered to buy the amps on the spot, and was unsuccessful in my attempt.

AC member gbeard uses 300B with his SuperHemps and reports similar results. The sonic signature and textural qualities of the hemp cone go with the 300B to make for a sound that could be considered debauched. Luxurious. Self-indulgent sonic luxury. I used a shunt cap at the amp, HP@100Hz, and added a sub and it got even better. With the output transformer, tube, and speaker driver all relieved of bass duty, you would get the utmost out of the Wavelengths, and the Super Hemps.

reddmadder · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 06:06 pm »

If you want the full monty try Gordon Rankin/Terry Cain's Wall-o-Sound speakers....will give you everything you need and more, aa aa aaplus you don't need a sub.

ZLS · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 06:14 pm »

The Omega Revolutions sound terrific with 300B Amps. The Revolution is a floor standing Aperiodic loaded single driver speaker utilizing the Visaton B200 Driver. But wait! There's more! Louis of Omega is in the process of developing a high Q SuperHemp driver that will be a drop in replacement for the B200. Therefore, you can get 2, I said 2 speakers for almost the price of one!!
There is, however, no truth to the rumor that Louis will throw in a set of Ginsu knives.

timothyharnett · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 06:53 pm »

You could try Cain & Cain (fostex based) horns - very clear & transparent. For a more balanced sound I was shocked by the quality of sound that Peter Qvortrup was getting from his speakers at the Heathrow show earlier in the year. He was playing dance music and rock at deafening levels.

PaulFolbrecht · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 08:07 pm »

I'm not going to give an all-out recommendation, but you might be stunned at what an 8W SET can do with Hyperion 938s. I drove them with a Dared 2A3 SET amp which is quite optimistically rated at 8W and got great results up to around 85dB listening levels in a large, open room. The Hyps were, in fact, designed to play well with an 8W 300B, according to the manufacturer.

Definitely there are tons of great speakers for such an application... perhaps you would be better served by one of the true high-eff designs... but maybe not.

alotaklipsch · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Sep 2006, 08:15 pm »

For the $$ and the sound, get a pair of Klipsch Chorus I, Chorus II, Cornwall, Forte, do a couple easy mods, and SMILE.

woodsyi · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 04:04 am »

Thanks for good ideas. So far I am leaning toward the Superhemps http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/superhemp.htm based on size, price and features but I am also intrigued by the Cain & Cain Wall-O-Sound speakers http://www.cain-cain.com/wallo/index.html. I wonder if the hempdriver can be fitted to the Wall-O-Sound horn enclosure and how the resulting speaker would sound. Generally speaking, how would a "simple" bass reflex differ in sound from a transmission line enclosure if the same driver was utilized?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 05:56 am »

woodsyi....Give Louis at Omega a call....he can be very helpful. As for 8 watts...I have a Sophia Baby amp...sounds good with the Omega A8's I own.
I've heard the Omega Hemp's and the XRS....their good speaker's as well.
Louis has alot of very good speaker's

....maybe buy a few pair's....

Chris

JLM · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 10:03 am »

IMO transmission line designs go deeper, are more dynamic, more musical, more realistic, bass roll off matches room gain, have an amp friendly impedance curve, and give the backwave a place to properly vent (without going back through the cone to smear the sound) versus bass reflex.

If you like the hyper detail of Lowthers, check out Bob Brines LT-2000:

http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/

BTW the site includes a comparison of TL to bass reflex.

zeke · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Oct 2006, 11:53 am »

The Audio Note kit03 sounds good with my 300B amp -- 96/97 db sens.

The Coincident Tech. Triumph Sig.'s also sound good ---- i think they are 91 db sens. ---- the UHS Triumph model is 94 db sens., but i haven't heard that spkr.

I also wonder what the Omega Superhemps or compact hemps would sound like .

dado5 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 10:54 am »

Klipsch is a convient and nice sounding way to go. The classic series work well with 300B's (have not heard any of the Reference models with tubes yet). 300B's tame the forwardness of the upper mids quite a bit. Arguably the most dynamic and 'fastest' commercial speakers available.

I personally am going to try the Silver Iris OB in the near future. Looks like a winner.

www.hawthorneaudio.com

PhilNYC · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 12:09 pm »

I'm a big fan of Rethm Audio for this type of setup. They're in the process of redesigning their product lineup, so maybe they have some stuff in inventory that can be had at a good deal...:

http://www.rethm.com

woodsyi · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 2 Oct 2006, 12:09 pm

I'm a big fan of Rethm Audio for this type of setup. They're in the process of redesigning their product lineup, so maybe they have some stuff in inventory that can be had at a good deal...:

http://www.rethm.com

I like what I read on their page. Have you heard the 2 or 3?

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 01:38 pm »

Woodsyi,

I've heard both the 2 and the 3, being driven by low-powered Audion tube amps (7wpc). In both cases, the soundstaging/imaging was among the most impressive I've ever heard, making these speakers a fantasy of some sorts for me if I ever got into low-powered tube amps. Not sure how they handle dynamic music, but they were downright magical on small ensembles and vocals...

JoshK · « **Reply #15 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 02:31 pm »

Just a tech point to help guide your process. 8watts gives 9db of headroom over the raw sensitivity (assuming 1w/1m) of the speakers. But this is at 1m and I personally don't sit that close to my speakers, so you are probably going to loose that 9dbs for your typical distance. So this means you should look for a speaker that will provide you with raw sensitivity equal to as loud as you ever wish to play on peaks. If you make the assumption that peaks can be 20dbs over average program then a speaker with raw sensitivity 20dbs more than your loud listening sessions will cover it.

Of course most people who use low powered SET amps don't budget this much headroom, but I thought it was worth considering anyway.

woodsyi · « **Reply #16 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 03:16 pm »

Thanks for the information Josh but I am not looking for that much dynamics. I am specifically looking for a moderate size (smaller would be better but I want to go down at least to 50 Hz) that will do vocals well -- I don't intend to play a Mahler Symphony on these speakers. I think I want high end accuracy (and tight bass down to 50 Hz) so that the vocal harmonics will be rendered true. For this reason I am looking at horn enclosures a little more. I am assuming that bass-reflex will still have some smear issue with the "reflexed" waves. Or are there tweaks that address this?

miklorsmith · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 04:04 pm »

I went through the same questions researching speakers to go with my first Clari-T waaayyyy back, about 2 years ago. I built some Fostex 206E BR boxes and fell in love with their immediacy and spectacular vocal reproduction. But, they were light in the bass and edgy in the presence region with some music. Having seen my personal light, I put my Gallos up for sale and started looking for something that could keep the strengths and smooth out the weaknesses.

I heard the Decware RL-3's and was unimpressed. Then I took a flier on the Zu Druids. At 101 db efficient, portray accurate bass to 40 hz, have an extended upper end, and present a very tube-friendly impedance curve.

The claims about them are strong and seem to make them an outstanding match. In practice, the 6 watts was more than enough to play heavy metal loudly and sound good doing it! This is not common to hi-eff speakers. Headroom also means classical music was beautifully portrayed and composed, from the quietest to loudest passages. I think this dynamic-scaling ability will stand out with whatever you wind up with.

Oh yes, the vocals. The Druids will not have the supernatural speed and incision of Lowthers or even some of the Fostexes. They are tone monsters and you WILL notice the lack of crossovers with vocals. Dynamic explosiveness, tone, and quick feet equal captivating voices.

I sold the Druids for Definition 1.5's, then Def. Pro's.

Zu has a 60 - 90 day in-home trial too.

I seriously doubt you could go wrong with Louis' stuff, though I haven't heard it.

Whatever choice you make, I wouldn't assume this is the last stop. You will hear things in your music you haven't heard before. I don't mean the coughing engineer at 3:37 of whatever CD, rather a new cohesion, a joining of parts. That doesn't mean you'll necessarily love it or prioritize these new elements but I'll be shocked if you don't at least say "I see what they're talking about".

For that reason, go all the way in that direction. Don't get a 92 db two-way with first-order XO that will be "just enough". Get something like an Omega that wires the driver straight to the amp, which is the next best thing to being wired into your brain. If you're going to a whole new paradigm, jump into the deep end.

PhilNYC · « **Reply #18 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 04:11 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 2 Oct 2006, 04:04 pm

I seriously doubt you could go wrong with Louis' stuff, though I haven't heard it.

From my experiences with Louis' stuff (primarily at the NY Raves), Omega speakers are *very* sensitive to synergy/matching issues...they sounded downright awful with some gear, and absolutely wonderful with other gear. For whatever reason, IMHO they demonstrated some of the biggest swings in performance depending on what they were hooked up to than pretty much any other speaker I've ever heard...

woodsyi · « **Reply #19 on:** 2 Oct 2006, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith on 2 Oct 2006, 04:04 pm

If you're going to a whole new paradigm, jump into the deep end.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am not planning on replacing my main rig. Since all speakers are a sum of compromises, I am hoping to set up a pair that will be specifically put together to do vocals well. I want to minimize the compromises that affects the vocal region by going single driver. It's fun to get excited about something new.