Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

Randy · « **Reply #1360 on:** 23 Mar 2007, 02:23 pm »

rollo, I used the twice as expensive Harmonic Tech Pro Silway II and III. Bogdans better all around, imo.

davetroy · « **Reply #1361 on:** 24 Mar 2007, 01:31 pm »

Has anyone tried Nicholas' silver ICs?

rollo · « **Reply #1362 on:** 26 Mar 2007, 03:29 pm »

Davetroy,

If you like the character of the TVC, then by all means try the Promitheus cable as it uses the same 4N silver. The IC seems to work best from TVC to amp. However an all Promitheus cabled system, IC and speaker cable maintains the synergy of using one cable type. Impedance and capacitance are consistent then throughout the system.
They are inexpensive enough to give them a try.

rollo

maxwalrath · « **Reply #1363 on:** 27 Mar 2007, 11:44 pm »

the thread is too damn big to scroll through and find the answer....can someone advise how to try a tubed pre with the TVC and a power amp? which goes first? where are the volume settings on each?

gooberdude · « **Reply #1364 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 12:16 am »

you only have to go back 5-10 pages...this is a new idea to this thread.

i haven't tried, but i thought it went source>TVC>tubed pre>amp

no clue about volume settings...

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #1365 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 12:27 am »

Quote from: maxwalrath on 27 Mar 2007, 11:44 pm

the thread is too damn big to scroll through and find the answer....can someone advise how to try a tubed pre with the TVC and a power amp? which goes first? where are the volume settings on each?

I have tried this way: Sources-->TVC-->tube preamp-->tube amp. First there was a lot of gain which is an excellent way to tube preamp having not a lot of gain but mine had way too much gain. I suggest just to use the volume control of your tube preamp and set TVC at one point that fit your taste. Good luck.

rollo · « **Reply #1366 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 02:48 pm »

Quote from: maxwalrath on 27 Mar 2007, 11:44 pm

the thread is too damn big to scroll through and find the answer....can someone advise how to try a tubed pre with the TVC and a power amp? which goes first? where are the volume settings on each?

maxwalrath,
If your preamp is low gain set the volume control to unity gain on TVC and adjust vol. of active preamp accordingly.
The Promitheus Active Pre has 9db of gain. It can be ordered with a gain setting to synergize with the output voltage of your CDP.
When I tried the TVC with my active[ Loesch & Wiesner] 20db, I could only set TVC at 8db [4 clicks] or less to make it work.
Being impressed with what I heard, ordered Promitheus Active Pre. It is breaking in as we speak. Initial impression is very good.
The TVC by its lonesome as we know is a winner. The combo as designed is the best of both worlds and a positive upgrade path.
You will get a taste of the Promitheus combo by trying your existing Preamp, however the transformer coupled output of the Promitheus Pre is the key to its sonic merits and performance.
Have fun, trying but it may cost you money cause IMO you will like the results.

rollo

rollo · « **Reply #1367 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 05:23 pm »

Received Energizer recently but did not connect as the Promitheus Active Pre is breaking in. Did want to add another piece to distract from addition of new piece.
So I connected to another system to try. Well in short ther was a major improvement in presentation. The soundstage expanded and had more depth. By the time I sat down from plugging unit in to sitting down it changed literary before my eyes.
To date I have NEVER had a power conditioner in my system that performed well without affecting the dynamics, tonality or soundstaging until now. It blew the Richard Grey out of the water by not bringing the soundstage in your face. It just seemed my amp grew wattage some how. The background is dead silent as well
Time will tell if it is the real deal, however initial impressions are very very positive.
Anyone else own one? what do you think? Am I alone with my opinion.

rollo

jaspal kallar · « **Reply #1368 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 05:48 pm »

Quote from: davetroy on 24 Mar 2007, 01:31 pm

Has anyone tried Nicholas' silver ICs?

I've nick's Silver IC (1m).

At first, without burn-out, tried it between TVC to AMP and then CDP to TVC.

Thinking back to then, I thought I got a better improvement CDP to TVC.

The improvement was better channel separation, cleaner bass and more micro detail. However, I felt that the midrange (the voices in particular) seemed to be restrained, as though at the speakers, and not as much air to the voices which didn't seem to project out in the room compared to my copper IC:

Ok I've just done the same again after 300+ burn in. It's still CDP to TVC and now the midrange have improved but then going back to my copper IC, I still feel that the midrange is restrained and the voices just don't project in the room and with air as much. I feel that the silver IC's doesn't compare 3D wise as my current copper IC. The micro detail is as before, the channel separation is very good but all in all I feel the it seems as though the sound is being restrained a tad at the speakers and not quite projecting fully out.

My findings were most apparent with soft jazz like Norah Jones. With more upbeat music the differences are not so apparent although I still would say that the midrange is not as strong.

I didnt have time to try between TVC to AMP, so things may be different.

The copper IC I have is an XLO (ultra series) - I think that costs around $200 (at least) So compared to Nick's it's at least 4x the price but Nick IC (I bought at $60), really does a good job. I'm only guessing but compared say to a $60 copper IC, I'd bet that Nicks Silver IC is much better.

Like most things - YMMV and it depends a lot on what cable you already have. The differences are not huge, but I still noticed enough to make up my mind.

Ok those are my quick ramblings.

- jaspal.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1369 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 28 Mar 2007, 05:23 pm

Received Energizer recently but did not connect as the Promitheus Active Pre is breaking in. Did want to add another piece to distract from addition of new piece.
So I connected to another system to try. Well in short ther was a major improvement in presentation. The soundstage expanded and had more depth. By the time I sat down from plugging unit in to sitting down it changed literary before my eyes.
To date I have NEVER had a power conditioner in my system that performed well without affecting the dynamics, tonality or soundstaging until now. It blew the Richard Grey out of the water by not bringing the soundstage in your face. It just seemed my amp grew wattage some how. The background is dead silent as well
Time will tell if it is the real deal, however initial impressions are very very positive.
Anyone else own one? what do you think? Am I alone with my opinion.

rollo

GHM has at least one of them. I hope he will chime in.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1370 on:** 28 Mar 2007, 06:06 pm »

Quote from: jaspal kallar on 28 Mar 2007, 05:48 pm

Quote from: davetroy on 24 Mar 2007, 01:31 pm
Has anyone tried Nicholas' silver ICs?

I've nick's Silver IC (1m).

At first, without burn-out, tried it between TVC to AMP and then CDP to TVC.

Thinking back to then, I thought I got a better improvement CDP to TVC.

The improvement was better channel separation, cleaner bass and more micro detail. However, I felt that the midrange (the voices in particular) seemed to be restrained, as though at the speakers, and not as much air to the voices which didn't seem to project out in the room compared to my copper IC:

Ok I've just done the same again after 300+ burn in. It's still CDP to TVC and now the midrange have improved but then going back to my copper IC, I still feel that the midrange is restrained and the voices just don't project in the room and with air as much. I feel that the silver IC's doesn't compare 3D wise as my current copper IC. The micro detail is as before, the channel separation is very good but all in all I feel the it seems as though the sound is being restrained a tad at the speakers and not quite projecting fully out.

My findings were most apparent with soft jazz like Norah Jones. With more upbeat music the differences are not so apparent although I still would say that the midrange is not as strong.

I didnt have time to try between TVC to AMP, so things may be different.

The copper IC I have is an XLO (ultra series) - I think that costs around $200 (at least) So compared to Nick's it's at least 4x the price but Nick IC (I bought at $60), really does a good job. I'm only guessing but compared say to a $60 copper IC, I'd bet that Nicks Silver IC is much better.

Like most things - YMMV and it depends a lot on what cable you already have. The differences are not huge, but I still noticed enough to make up my mind.

Ok those are my quick ramblings.

- jaspal.

Thanks Jaspal for posting your impressions. I've been using silver wire throughout: digital link, ICs, solid speaker wire. Before getting the active tube pre MPX3, Altmann DAC, and TVC, the system sounded more sterile than I liked, so I naturally blamed it to the silver wiring. Instead of changing over to copper, I upgraded to those 3 above-mentioned components, and it sounds more like it now. While I will probably keep the wiring as it is now, it's very helpful to keep in mind that the copper (a la XLO Ultra Series) will help with 3D and midrange in general.

rollo · « **Reply #1371 on:** 29 Mar 2007, 08:20 pm »

Gentleman,

Its not over until its over. If you think the TVC is a great thing. You are in for a shock. The Promitheus active buffer [9db gain] in addition to the TVC change your mind as to what is possible in Preamp design.
Obviously Nicholas had this concept of combining the best of both worlds long ago. Now it is a reality. It is going to take one heck of a Preamp to beat this combo IMO. It just does everything well. Clarity, weight, detail, air, 3D imaging, tonality and bass to knock you down. The bass is too good to be true.
No it is not colored it is real sounding. I could go on as you all know, but I will not. Do not have to, it is that good.

rollo

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1372 on:** 29 Mar 2007, 11:08 pm »

rollo,
your enthusiasm is undestructable

. it's seldom to see an audiophile as happy and enthusiastic as you are. have you ever had bad moods with promitheus?
cheers g

PS. i'm in a great mood too, tomorrow i'm buying CEC TL-51XR!

daz_bike · « **Reply #1373 on:** 29 Mar 2007, 11:30 pm »

Rollo,

Have you tired the buffer both before and after the TVC? If so which position did you prefer and was there a significant difference between the two.

I am jealous that you have all that gear to play with. I'm eagerly waiting for my order to arrive and see how it integrates into my system. I will post my reviews of the TVC, Energizer and Opus BPS accordingly. I think there needs to be more feedback on the Energizer and BPS's. God knows theres enough info on the TVC, particularly this thread!

Regards
Daz

Randy · « **Reply #1374 on:** 30 Mar 2007, 08:24 pm »

rollo, you'll have to fill us in a little more as to what the active pre adds to the sound of the TVC, because, I tell you what, it's hard to conceive what can be improved on the pure, transparent, clear, and detailed sound I get from my system during daylight hours here. (When the sun goes down, the sound of my system deteriorates considerably because the electricity becomes very noisy.) I have plenty of volume, plenty of bass, (I sold my subwoofer), and I nothing to complain about. One thing, I can't use my old phono preamp with the TVC, not enough gain I guess.

rollo · « **Reply #1375 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 03:07 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 29 Mar 2007, 11:08 pm

rollo,
your enthusiasm is indestructible . it's seldom to see an audiophile as happy and enthusiastic as you are. have you ever had bad moods with promitheus?
cheers g

PS. I'm in a great mood too, tomorrow I'm buying CEC TL-51XR!

Actually yes, as good as it is the TVC was lacking body and soul compared to a the better active preamps. The emotional impact of the actives was MIA with TVC. The clarity and detail of the TVC was MIA compared to the actives. It was hard to listen to either piece active or passive without missing the virtues of each.
Now for the first time, the active preamp [Loesch] is not being missed. That is saying a lot IMO.
The original TVC at under $400 is a wonderfull achievement. Is it a match for the best of the actives? NO However the TVC will make them quiver a bit. The dual box mono takes the performance up a notch and gets closer yet but still no cigar. The differences are small but large enough to the most discerning to spend the extra money.
With the addition of the buffer stage the gap has narrowed significantly IMO and just may be the ticket to nirvana, you be the judge with YOUR system.
As far as my enthusiasm is concerned. You are correct in your evaluation. After spending copious amounts of money in this hobby it is a GOD SENT to have a Manf. like Promitheus around offering true giant killers at an affordable price. I can only imagine what Nicholas is capable of in the future. IMO the products we see now from Promitheus will evolve to the next level while maintaining modest cost compared to the competition.
I get excited over this hobby as it is so comforting and therapeutic after a long day. Music is life and life is great and now more affordable.

rollo

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1376 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 04:51 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 31 Mar 2007, 03:07 pm

Actually yes, as good as it is the TVC was lacking body and soul compared to a the better active preamps. The emotional impact of the actives was MIA with TVC. The clarity and detail of the TVC was MIA compared to the actives. It was hard to listen to either piece active or passive without missing the virtues of each.

Hi Rollo,

Thanks for sharing with us your exciting findings, and I am sure they will be very helpful for those who are still looking for the body and soul elements. I listened to my 3 weeks old single box dual mono TVC last night and couldn't be more satisfied with the body and soul it brought to my system. It kept reminding me of what GHM and others had said about the TVC's virtues: never harsh highs, tube-like mids, to-die-for bass, dead quiet black transparent, effortless dynamic even at low volume level. I guess it's a system dependent matter.

Someday I would buy Nick's active pre if I needed more loudness (bigger room, need to play louder in the daytime, lesser amplifier power and speaker's efficiency, etc.). But again, last night the 10 or 11 o'clock detent gave me more than enough volume, with body and soul intact. I haven't heard Nick's active tube pre, so I may be wrong. On the other hand, my fully upgraded SinglePower MPX3 tube pre has been taking a long break since the TVC arrived.

Just my 2 cents.

jaspal kallar · « **Reply #1377 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 05:35 pm »

Quote from: Paul_Bui on 31 Mar 2007, 04:51 pm

Hi Rollo,

Someday I would buy Nick's active pre if I needed more loudness (bigger room, need to play louder in the daytime, lesser amplifier power and speaker's efficiency, etc.). But again, last night the 10 or 11 o'clock detent gave me more than enough volume, with body and soul intact. I haven't heard Nick's active tube pre, so I may be wrong. On the other hand, my fully upgraded SinglePower MPX3 tube pre has been taking a long break since the TVC arrived.

Just my 2 cents.

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but couldn't you try your TVC and the SinglePower MPX3?

I mean couldn't the SinglePower MPX3 used as "tube buffer" simpler to Nicks Active Pre ?

I don't have a tube pre but I would be curious to try it out although I'm really quite happy with my TVC to be honest.

- jaspal

rollo · « **Reply #1378 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 30 Mar 2007, 08:24 pm

rollo, you'll have to fill us in a little more as to what the active pre adds to the sound of the TVC, because, I tell you what, it's hard to conceive what can be improved on the pure, transparent, clear, and detailed sound I get from my system during daylight hours here. (When the sun goes down, the sound of my system deteriorates considerably because the electricity becomes very noisy.) I have plenty of volume, plenty of bass, (I sold my subwoofer), and I nothing to complain about. One thing, I can't use my old phono preamp with the TVC, not enough gain I guess.

Randy,
OK guys, here we go. The clear transparent and pure sound of the passive alone is pleasing to say the least. With the addition of the buffer there is just more there there. The sound is BIGGER, FULLER more authoritative . A much larger sound stage with more 3D imaging. Tonality and harmonic structure remain the same as with the TVC alone.
The buffer just enhances what the TVC does and does well. Remember the difference over your previous preamp. Well be prepared to be shocked again.
Without sounding like a pompous ass, unless you [ in general] have had the pleasure of listening to a CJ Act2 , AR Ref. 2, Wytech Opal, Mark Levenson Ref, Loesch & Wiesner, or the like in your system you are not going to appreciate where I am coming from. I did not want to use this analogy before as not to insult anyone, however Class "A" is Class "A" for a reason.
The TVC alone is an excellent piece, with the buffer it is stellar. Can we live without the buffer, yes we can. When you hear what the buffer brings to the table with the TVC IMO there is no going back. The combo is that good.
To date the TVC is installed before the buffer as Nicholas reccommends. I have not tried the reverse as of now. When it breaks in 100% I'll give it a go.
The Energizer as well expanded the sound with a dead quite background. The bass is utterly explosive and even more focused than before which is unbelievable to me.
GHM if you are reading this , please shed some input as to your findings with the Energizer in place. Am I nuts altogether or a happy customer?

rollo

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1379 on:** 31 Mar 2007, 10:57 pm »

Quote from: jaspal kallar on 31 Mar 2007, 05:35 pm

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but couldn't you try your TVC and the SinglePower MPX3?

I mean couldn't the SinglePower MPX3 used as "tube buffer" simpler to Nicks Active Pre ?

I don't have a tube pre but I would be curious to try it out although I'm really quite happy with my TVC to be honest.

- jaspal

Jaspal,

Thanks for your suggestion. I will manage to try the MPX3 after the TVC, as Rollo did to Nick's active pre, and keep you posted.