[guest1632]

Ray,

       We will get a clarification from Nicholas. Your right no hurry. As is the new unit is performing above my expectations. However I would like to hear if there is any benefit to the revised scheme which eliminates the buss altogether. It may be overkill but it is worth a try.

  rollo

Hi Rollo,

It takes Nicholas a few days to respond to email. He still prefers the double run of silver wire versus copper. 

"I am for double wiring silver, 7n copper is nice but I prefer the silver the 7n copper edges the double run silver slightly on body but loose a lot on highs
and imaging, depth.

That’s my preference. And if you use either a SS or tube active the body should be okay. With tube no problem, SS need to wait and see for Greg unit to
come in. But if it is well made then the body should better without imposing it’s own sound"


Thatis his email to me. How do you know if you have double run of silver? No answer back yet?

Ray

[rollo]

To All,

   After some further research, the buss for the Neg leg of the RCAs as installed is fine as is. There is nothing to be gained by removing buss. However the connecting wire should be at least 16Ga to accomodate the load.
     So I will leave buss installed and change wire to 16Ga copper. It really does not a make a difference sonically if it is silver or copper in this application.
      This matter is over IMO. So put your order in already.
  rollo

[guest1632]

To All,

   After some further research, the buss for the Neg leg of the RCAs as installed is fine as is. There is nothing to be gained by removing buss. However the connecting wire should be at least 16Ga to accomodate the load.
     So I will leave buss installed and change wire to 16Ga copper. It really does not a make a difference sonically if it is silver or copper in this application.
      This matter is over IMO. So put your order in already.
  rollo

Hi Rollo,

Is this the ground cable you were speaking of? So then how to connect to external ground? Run two wires out the back off of the Negative loops and ground to wherever to ground to? Or can you tie the two together for one ground wire?

Ray

[rollo]

Ray,
        To each his own, that is why IMO the decision should be made by the customer. Since it is Nicholas' product and feels the double run of silver betters the copper than go for it.     I disagree about depth and imaging. To my ears comparing the silver wired unit against the copper wired unit the improvement in  depth was the first thing we noticed after the bass and I mean bass. Imaging as well seemed improved and it is way to early to tell.
      I will admit that detail is less pronounced than the silver. Air and decay is evident but will take time to blossom as the unit opens up. The silver unit has excellent decay and air around the notes. Only time will tell with the copper unit, however not much is missing so far.
     The copper based unit IMO offers more of a natural presentation that is not overly detailed and HiFi sounding. 

   

[rollo]

Ray,

   Just attach a wire from the the nut holding trannie [both] in place to a ground post. Then connect ground post to external ground. If you want to ground neg. of RCAs also attach to ground post. I did not do that yet. I am trying one thing at a time in order to evaluate each for its own merits.

 rollo

[guest1632]

To All,

   After some further research, the buss for the Neg leg of the RCAs as installed is fine as is. There is nothing to be gained by removing buss. However the connecting wire should be at least 16Ga to accomodate the load.
     So I will leave buss installed and change wire to 16Ga copper. It really does not a make a difference sonically if it is silver or copper in this application.
      This matter is over IMO. So put your order in already.
  rollo

Hi Rollo,

You are not clear one which is the "connecting wire." Are you talking about the ground wire out the back of the case, or are you talking about the return leg back to the RCA?

If you are talking about the ground wire out the back of the case, then you have to have either the Negative side shorted together and one wire out the back or two wires out the back. So that is what I'm asking.

Thanks.
Ray

[rollo]

Ray,

   Sorry if I was not clear. The wire in question is the internal wire from RCA buss to attenuator. This should be a larger Ga.

 rollo

[anubisgrau]

Ray,
        To each his own, that is why IMO the decision should be made by the customer. Since it is Nicholas' product and feels the double run of silver betters the copper than go for it.     I disagree about depth and imaging. To my ears comparing the silver wired unit against the copper wired unit the improvement in  depth was the first thing we noticed after the bass and I mean bass. Imaging as well seemed improved and it is way to early to tell.
      I will admit that detail is less pronounced than the silver. Air and decay is evident but will take time to blossom as the unit opens up. The silver unit has excellent decay and air around the notes. Only time will tell with the copper unit, however not much is missing so far.
     The copper based unit IMO offers more of a natural presentation that is not overly detailed and HiFi sounding. 

i would generally agree with rollo on this. my experience is that the silver wires are superior at hi-fi pyrotechnics, having usually everything one step ahead of copper, except in ability to extract real emotions from recordings.

with properly designed units, it is not so difficult anymore to get an ultimate detail, air, space, 3D, soundstage and whatever audio kids fall for - but, to extract all this different data and glue it into a coherent emotional impression (as a main watershed between a concert and a home listening for me), that is THE real task for great audio.

i found copper closer to this holy grail of emotional bond than silver, however my experience is limited too. i should have tried every single silver wire out there to be fully confident on this, but until that, i would stick to good ole copper!

[gooberdude]

In other forums i've heard mention of long-time hobbyists 'going back to copper'...kinda funny that its even an issue.     I have heard a few silver cables do tricks that copper can't do, its not my cup of tea though generally.   supposedly, paul speltz has found a silver cable that doesn't sound like silver.

Last night I grounded both the trannies in my TVC, the change is audible.  In terms of tweaks like ebony knobs and removing the screws, etc...grounding the trannies has the biggest effect to my ears.   Blacker background, which i didn't think was possible, and this reveals a bit more bass and sucks you into the music a bit more.  Once i got over the quietness, there seemed to be a bit more emotion.  Most other tweaks that can be done to the TVC alter the sound just a bit, smooth it out or bring out more bass.  Grounding does something altogether different and removes a layer of grunge (or something that i can't name).  highly recomended to give a listen this way.   Not a huge difference, but a difference nontheless.

it'll be interesting to hear others accounts, some may not like the effect.  its as if it had a black bacground before, and now it has no background....

What i did was take a single strand of CAT5 wire and make each end bare for 1/2"...each strand was 18" long.     Since my trannies aren't bolted down, i took a small piece of double sided tape and taped one bare end to the top of each transformer...to the top of the metal covering aroud each tansformer.   Then, i ran each strand to the GRND lug on my phono preamp.    took about 1 minute.

i also ground 2 racks, so i'm kinda familiar with the effects of it.  the effects have been similar in all 3 cases.   

[rollo]

anubisgru,

                As you know from the Zero Gain Forum, I have had a heated discussion about copper and silver  ICs.
                I posted a thread with reference to "is there a difference between copper and silver ICs".
                The thread was not intended to debate which is better, but to discern any differences in tonality, bass, clarity, detail and so on.
                I was bombarded with threads that one was better than the other. Man did the Zanash [makes silver cables] fans come out of the woodwork to defend their position on silver. I challenged Zanash to a shootout between his best silver IC against my reference Harmonix Golden Performance ICs. He responded and promised a pair when available. I am still waiting 2 months and no email. 
                 Man you would have thought I started WW 3 or something. Copper Vs. silver is a subjective matter. They both have their strengths. The choice is system dependant as well as personal.
                 For me it is a copper world, until I hear a silver cable that offers all of the good traits of silver with the emotional impact of copper, then copper it is. The only cable that came close in my experience is Kimber Select 3035. Hideously expensive stuff but affective. If there is a silver cable out there that performs like the Kimber for a reasonable price, it may change my opinion. To date I have not found one.
            I am not trying to start a debate between copper and silver here as it is off subject.
            Our beloved TVC can be ordered with either wire type. If you want more body, weight, soul and authoritative bass go with copper. If you prefer a bit more clarity, detail, up front presentation and transparency go with silver. If your system is threadbare go with copper. It is a bit warm, dark or ripe go silver.
             So in the end, it is system dependant as well as subjective. There is no one better than the other IMO.

rollo 

P.S. Gooberdude, forgot about Speltz silver ICs, if silver is the cable preferred than listen to this cable. It is very good. I knew you would like the grounding effect.

[guest1632]

To All,

   After some further research, the buss for the Neg leg of the RCAs as installed is fine as is. There is nothing to be gained by removing buss. However the connecting wire should be at least 16Ga to accomodate the load.
     So I will leave buss installed and change wire to 16Ga copper. It really does not a make a difference sonically if it is silver or copper in this application.
      This matter is over IMO. So put your order in already.
  rollo

Hi Rollo,

Ok, here's an idea for anyone else to try. A natural breakpoint on the negative side would be between the two grounds, the ins and outs. Just run a loop between them, and solder it to the case of the transformer. That would automatically ground the 2 transformers. Now, if the RCA jacks on the preamp are floating, then yeah, run a wire off that loop, out the little hole on the right side, and ground it to wherever. I wonder if that would work.

Ray

[anubisgrau]

here's me with silly ideas again.

i don't have promitheus with me to try, but ever since i tried a feather cushion as way of controlling vibrations i became very fond of air decoupling. i am now awaiting for a small tyre to put it under my CDP and see if it will further improve. putting just a natural feather cushion instead of marble and cones took away a hint of digital glare from the sound, add weight and flow. when i tested other devices in my home, feather cushion always sounded better than either nothing (i don't put anything under other devices) or a usual audiophile marble/cones thing. if it wouldn't be so inconvenient to use, i would stuck it everywhere like a friend of mine bought small tyres and put them under every device he has.

i am wondering if anyone tried promitheus with some kind of air support under it instead of cones and weights.

[daz_bike]

IMO throwing some gold into the mix, either solid gold or as an alloy with silver is far better than sliver or copper alone.  Manufacturers such as DACT, Crystal cable, Antipodes Audio and Jade.  Of course cost is the biggest factor.  Hmmm I suppose it would be out of the question for a number of reasons to have a gold/ gold-silver wired Promitheus TVC.

Just thought I would mention that along with my TVC on order I will have a couple of Energizers (one for each mono amp and one for the front end) and an Opus Intermediate BPS (for front end) coming from Nicholas.  When I get them I will give my feedback.

Cheers

[rollo]

here's me with silly ideas again.

i don't have promitheus with me to try, but ever since i tried a feather cushion as way of controlling vibrations i became very fond of air decoupling. i am now awaiting for a small tyre to put it under my CDP and see if it will further improve. putting just a natural feather cushion instead of marble and cones took away a hint of digital glare from the sound, add weight and flow. when i tested other devices in my home, feather cushion always sounded better than either nothing (i don't put anything under other devices) or a usual audiophile marble/cones thing. if it wouldn't be so inconvenient to use, i would stuck it everywhere like a friend of mine bought small tyres and put them under every device he has.

i am wondering if anyone tried promitheus with some kind of air support under it instead of cones and weights.

 

    anubisgru,
                     The rubber tires can be affective. However make sure the CDP is LEVEL to extract its best performance. To take the air bladder [tube] to the next level Place a wood plinth of your choice, preferably maple or bamboo on bladder and use cones to drain resonance from component into plinth. The bladder will isolate from surface below and the cones will drain component resonance into plinth. Works every time. The Arcicci Airhead uses 3 tubes in a wood enclosure and hardwood plinth for the component to rest on.
 
     Have fun
                       rollo

[rollo]

IMO throwing some gold into the mix, either solid gold or as an alloy with silver is far better than sliver or copper alone.  Manufacturers such as DACT, Crystal cable, Antipodes Audio and Jade.  Of course cost is the biggest factor.  Hmmm I suppose it would be out of the question for a number of reasons to have a gold/ gold-silver wired Promitheus TVC.

Just thought I would mention that along with my TVC on order I will have a couple of Energizers (one for each mono amp and one for the front end) and an Opus Intermediate BPS (for front end) coming from Nicholas.  When I get them I will give my feedback.

Cheers

 

daz-BIKE,

                Gold seems to be a winner as a conductor. However quite expensive as you point out. However maybe hook up wire as opposed to a finished cable would be more reasonable to try. So tweak away man, and let us know.

        Rollo

[Randy]

IMO throwing some gold into the mix, either solid gold or as an alloy with silver is far better than sliver or copper alone.  Manufacturers such as DACT, Crystal cable, Antipodes Audio and Jade.  Of course cost is the biggest factor.  Hmmm I suppose it would be out of the question for a number of reasons to have a gold/ gold-silver wired Promitheus TVC.

Silver/gold combo seems to work well in the Bogdan XLRs I use with my TVC. They are reasonably priced. Three strands of wire they isolate with an ebony divider. Strange looking and stiff, but I think they are great ics.

[rollo]

IMO throwing some gold into the mix, either solid gold or as an alloy with silver is far better than sliver or copper alone.  Manufacturers such as DACT, Crystal cable, Antipodes Audio and Jade.  Of course cost is the biggest factor.  Hmmm I suppose it would be out of the question for a number of reasons to have a gold/ gold-silver wired Promitheus TVC.

Silver/gold combo seems to work well in the Bogdan XLRs I use with my TVC. They are reasonably priced. Three strands of wire they isolate with an ebony divider. Strange looking and stiff, but I think they are great ics.

 

  Randy,
                 Do you have a web site? Did you say ebony man. I gonna crap myself now.
       Good find Randy, please keep us informed, what is reasonably priced?

  Thanks
               rollo

[Randy]

rollo, here's a link to his ad on Audiogon. I think it's the only place he sells. Don't think he even has a website. The owner is named Ben Janovich, or something like that. Good guy. I have gotten four pair from him. I've been tempted to try his power cords, but haven't taken the plunge yet. In addition to the PC now listed, he has a silver/gold one that is not on audiogon right now. It's kind of pricey, however.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablintr&1178823536

[Randy]

Bogdan Audio does have a website now. (I can't get it because of the ancient Mac I use.)

http://www.bogdanaudio.com/

[rollo]

Randy,

         Thanks for the site. They look interesting. What were you using before these?

rollo