[jaspal kallar]

Hey Jaspal,

What footers are you using now?   I've been listening with the cheaper 2" mapleshade ones, sounds great.

Matt, I'm still with Nick's supplied footers but I'm noting down your comments with the different footers you are using so that at a later date I will experiment with them 

  - jaspal

[gooberdude]

Hey guys,

I had a chance to swap out the aluminum 1/4" rod that holds the Source Selector knob with a standard 1/4" dowel rod from the hardware store.   the change is audible in my system.  again, its just a bit smoother and more enjoyable not a 'night and day' sorta thing.   a good tweak for 75 cents, took about 5 minutes.  The Ebony knob seems to sit better on the wood...i think the set screw dug in a bit more compared to the alum rod.      Can the rod on the Volume knob be replaced?   It looks to be only 1" long and an integral part of the volume knob assembly.

Before i removed the orig rod i just looked at the TVC while it was sitting on my lap...this thing really is a DIY delight. 

When comparing pics of the internals of mine compared to the newer units, the internal cables are better routed & spread apart and also bundled via nylon zip ties now.    So, i put on 2 latex gloves and gently pulled all the internal wires so that the groups of wires didn't touch one another.    I listen to the TVC with the lid off now, and its a good thing...   With all the internal cabling spaced apart there's a group of tranny wires and 3 wires that go to the RCA's which go over the top of the TVC.    In other words, if you look directly at my TVC its as if it has a Mohawk... a few groups of small wires stick up over the top right in the middle, behind the Volume knob.   For those TVC's made in the later part of '06, U might open it up to see if your wires are bunched together or even touching the trannies, the bottom or the top lid.


Can someone help me with an issue?    It looks as if the wires coming out of the trannies are the actual wound tranny wires...is this correct?    I say this 'cuz there are no solder joints near the trannies, only at the Volume knob.   

If this is accurate, then to add a 2nd Volume knob the solder joints at the Volume knob (for one channel)need to be undone, and that transformers' wires need to be re-soldered to a new potentiometer, right??      In my TVC, the front face panel was drilled to accept 2 volume knobs.  Aside from moving the transformer a few cm over (away from the other tranny) to accomodate the wires going to the new volume knob, it looks to be an easy mod to make a single go to a dual volume control ass*U*ming the front panel was drilled for the 2nd knob mount.   

Any idea how much time this mod might require?   I'd have a local shop do this work, if its easy enough. Most likely i'd try and use all the orig wiring, however the silver wires going to the RCA's might have to be replaced due to length issues.  If i had to replace these, i'd go with good copper wires.

At first glance, moving the Grayhill switch to the back panel of the TVC shouldn't be a problem either and won't require any soldering...just drilling a new hole and mounting it.   For my situation, it would be cool to have the Selector knob on the side of the TVC, not the rear panel...

[guest1632]

a new element to the promitheus story made me thinking.... a TVC plus a tube active part together is now around $1000. if you add a price of a phono pre in case you may need it (as i do), you are coming to around $1600 or so (sorry i haven't checked a current price for a phono unit but remember it was around $500 ex-shipping).

so, $1600 and 5 boxes in the house, plus 2 extra cables.... not sure this sounds inviting to me. thanks but no thanks. for similar money i would rather go for a full function single chasis (or separate supply) unit on a secondhand market. for example mine EAR 864 (not a TVC, but a decent valve pre with transformer output and MM/MC stage) was paid around $1400 for a mint, 1-year old piece, with excellent resale value.

nick, if you read this, i really think you need to make a strategy for your business and some sort of business plan. idea of an active pre to complement TVC can be interesting to some people but not to everyone who bought a TVC. i think, if you are confident that a combo of a TVC and a tube active part is your definitive answer to the world of audio, you need to make 1 product out of that, to make an attractive chasis and good, ergonomic design. not all of us are natural born hi-fi tweakers and nerds, some of us like a simplicity and easy, plug'n'play products.

you also need to think about the price and to see what cuts are possible - i think that with a $1,000 tag it definitely can't be as attractive as a $340 only TVC. i know you can always produce for a niche market, specialists' specalists,  but i think you have a great talent and a good understadning of audio that you need to try to bring your products closer to more people than now, and to develop your business into something that will leave a greater impact on the hi-fi world.

hope you will understand i am writing this because of my wish for your success to grow much more than now.

Hi, That's why I suggested to get Greg Ball's SKPre. Both boards are $130. Then after you install this little module (it takes 2 of them) in the present TVC, all you need then is a small transformer. That's it and you then have an active preamp.

Ray

[jonners]

    Hi. I've recently bought a pair of Promitheus TVC transx and wired them up myself, so I think I can help with gooberdude's question about rewiring them.
   Yes, the wires coming out of the transx are the actual trans wires, since each trans is wound with one continuous piece of wire, with the tappings coming out in loops.     
      I don't see any great advantage to having separate volume knobs, but if you really want that it should be quite straightforward to move all the wires, including input and output connections, to a separate switch - but you would have to be very methodical and careful about getting all the connections right as there are a lot of quite delicate wires. Having wired my own, I certainly wouldn't like to do it for a living, and I would definitely agree with previous posters who say what a great bargain this TVC is!
     Incidentally, I'm really impressed with the sound of these transx. Compared with my previous resistor ladder attenuator I get better dynamics, plus the often-mentioned advantage of not losing the 'body' in the sound at lower volume levels. So thanks to all those who have posted in these many pages and persuaded me to go this route! 

[guest1632]

    Hi. I've recently bought a pair of Promitheus TVC transx and wired them up myself, so I think I can help with gooberdude's question about rewiring them.
   Yes, the wires coming out of the transx are the actual trans wires, since each trans is wound with one continuous piece of wire, with the tappings coming out in loops.     
      I don't see any great advantage to having separate volume knobs, but if you really want that it should be quite straightforward to move all the wires, including input and output connections, to a separate switch - but you would have to be very methodical and careful about getting all the connections right as there are a lot of quite delicate wires. Having wired my own, I certainly wouldn't like to do it for a living, and I would definitely agree with previous posters who say what a great bargain this TVC is!
     Incidentally, I'm really impressed with the sound of these transx. Compared with my previous resistor ladder attenuator I get better dynamics, plus the often-mentioned advantage of not losing the 'body' in the sound at lower volume levels. So thanks to all those who have posted in these many pages and persuaded me to go this route! 

Hi, The reason the separate volume switches is that it eliminates the crosstalk between the two channels. That's why Steve with his active tube preamp uses separate resistive volume controls.

Ray

[PromitheusAudio]

a new element to the promitheus story made me thinking.... a TVC plus a tube active part together is now around $1000. if you add a price of a phono pre in case you may need it (as i do), you are coming to around $1600 or so (sorry i haven't checked a current price for a phono unit but remember it was around $500 ex-shipping).

so, $1600 and 5 boxes in the house, plus 2 extra cables.... not sure this sounds inviting to me. thanks but no thanks. for similar money i would rather go for a full function single chasis (or separate supply) unit on a secondhand market. for example mine EAR 864 (not a TVC, but a decent valve pre with transformer output and MM/MC stage) was paid around $1400 for a mint, 1-year old piece, with excellent resale value.

nick, if you read this, i really think you need to make a strategy for your business and some sort of business plan. idea of an active pre to complement TVC can be interesting to some people but not to everyone who bought a TVC. i think, if you are confident that a combo of a TVC and a tube active part is your definitive answer to the world of audio, you need to make 1 product out of that, to make an attractive chasis and good, ergonomic design. not all of us are natural born hi-fi tweakers and nerds, some of us like a simplicity and easy, plug'n'play products.

you also need to think about the price and to see what cuts are possible - i think that with a $1,000 tag it definitely can't be as attractive as a $340 only TVC. i know you can always produce for a niche market, specialists' specalists,  but i think you have a great talent and a good understadning of audio that you need to try to bring your products closer to more people than now, and to develop your business into something that will leave a greater impact on the hi-fi world.

hope you will understand i am writing this because of my wish for your success to grow much more than now.

Good point. THe separate active stage was for people who had bought the tvc and wish to upgrade further.
Will look into the single unit box design. SO its a TVC+active preamp in a single box. This way i should be able to keep cost down lower. Then again having it separate as its benefits and well as negative. BUt will definetly do a single box unit soon. Was looking into doing this version of a single box to make life simple as you mention

Cheers
Nicholas

[gooberdude]

hey Jonners,

thanks for the info.     Can you post a pic of your TVC?   Most of the pics posted so far have been of Nick's chassis.

Its going to be a while B4 i get up the energy to take mine to a dual volume control, but good to know i don't have to buy a new unit and go through the break-in period again....I plan to keep these trannies for some time. 

My only reason for inquiring is that i've heard a dual, briefly, and do think that the stereo separation was noticeably better.   i'm a sucker for that effect!  can't help it.


Nick, or anyone, would it make sense to add a vertical piece of copper or Mu metal inside the chassis of the Dual units to aid with the 'crosstalk' issue?? It would be as tall as the chassis and run from the front to back. 

This wouldn't be possible inside mine since the wires all come together at the single volume ctrl inthe center...but it seems like in the Dual units this wouldn't be hard to do.


matt

[guest1632]

hey Jonners,

thanks for the info.     Can you post a pic of your TVC?   Most of the pics posted so far have been of Nick's chassis.

Its going to be a while B4 i get up the energy to take mine to a dual volume control, but good to know i don't have to buy a new unit and go through the break-in period again....I plan to keep these trannies for some time. 

My only reason for inquiring is that i've heard a dual, briefly, and do think that the stereo separation was noticeably better.   i'm a sucker for that effect!  can't help it.


Nick, or anyone, would it make sense to add a vertical piece of copper or Mu metal inside the chassis of the Dual units to aid with the 'crosstalk' issue?? It would be as tall as the chassis and run from the front to back. 

This wouldn't be possible inside mine since the wires all come together at the single volume ctrl inthe center...but it seems like in the Dual units this wouldn't be hard to do.


matt

Hey Matt,

The problem is the crosstalk is caused because of the two channels in the switch for the volume are so close together. If there was some way to decouple the 2 switches and move one of the channels of the switch a few or an inch away, that would be an interesting experiment.

By the way, Matt, I played with on and off of the steel plate, and at best, it was subttle, but there was more glare especially towards the top end. I don't know how far back in audio you go, but if you've ever heard a Decca phono cartridge, then you'd know what I'm talking about. Because of the way it was constructed, it had some of the best attack on drums for a phono cartridge that I've ever heard. Its fault was that well the best way to put it, it sounded rough. Yet, it was open, detailed and all that stuff. With the cover off, it reminded me of that kinda feeling. There was someone in the .90's that stated that building any amplifier on a metal chassis was debtramental to the sound. Mine is sitting on top of my video card box.

Putting on the plate, and tightening down the screws, seemed to resolve the grain that I was hearing. 

Ray

[stereohifi]

Hi everyone, is anybody have tried the myrtle wood footers, Cardas have some nice ones, and the is a another gentlemen from Oregon that sell them 3 for $14 at Audiogon, i think it's a good deal?
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1176108940
Regards.
P.S. i have no relation with the product, i,m just a future customer.......

[jonners]

Hi Gooberdude
  Did you compare the two TVC's side by side in the same system? The differences in crosstalk would be so tiny that I would be surprised if you could actually hear differences in stereo separation. If I play a signal through one channel of my TVC at max volume and listen only to what is leaking through through the other channel, the sound is only just audible with my ear right up to the speaker.
  Lots of people prefer the sound of vinyl, and the crosstalk in a vinyl cartridge would be orders of magnitude greater than we're talking about here. Maybe we should be trying to increase crosstalk? aa
  Ultimately, everything in the universe has got crosstalk with everything else, so let's have a beer and drink to it - makes the system sound better!

[gooberdude]

I did get to compare my TVC to a brand new one in the same system, not in my system though.   It wasn't a great A-B test - the new Dual Volume ctrl TVC had only about 100 hrs on it and mine was thoroughly burned in.  the new one was 'warmed up' and mine was stone cold.   However, there was a change in the space, or width, of the Dual's soundstage compared to mine...and it was cool to my ears.     

it was a change in square footage, but nothing else (like tone, or drive, etc).   again, i like that spread out life-sized soundstage.    My TVC is not deficient in this regards, but it seems like this is one effect that Nicks newer designs address.  if i remember correctly, it was the reason going with the dual volume ctrl.

and what the heck is crosstalk anyways?   i know my Ipod has an option to increase it, never messed with it though.     

if it means butting into other people's conversations i have crosstalk in spades!


hey ray, i can't stick the lid back on mine w/o squashing a group of tranny wires         not sure what i'm gonna do.  i really can't tell a diff either way, especially now with the 1/4" wood rod installed and the Selector mount isolated.   its probably a non-issue...     Without de & re-soldering some of the tranny wires, there's no way to get the lid on where it doesn't touch any wires.

matt

[jonners]

Crosstalk is when some of the sound from the left channel leaks into the right, and vice versa. It's more like listening in to conversations you're not supposed to hear!

[gooberdude]

Would keeping the tranny wires away from the other trannie's wires reduce crosstalk?

ie, would reducing crosstalk increase stereo separation?

[guest1632]

Hi Gooberdude
  Did you compare the two TVC's side by side in the same system? The differences in crosstalk would be so tiny that I would be surprised if you could actually hear differences in stereo separation. If I play a signal through one channel of my TVC at max volume and listen only to what is leaking through through the other channel, the sound is only just audible with my ear right up to the speaker.
  Lots of people prefer the sound of vinyl, and the crosstalk in a vinyl cartridge would be orders of magnitude greater than we're talking about here. Maybe we should be trying to increase crosstalk? aa
  Ultimately, everything in the universe has got crosstalk with everything else, so let's have a beer and drink to it - makes the system sound better!

Hi Jonners,

It is unfortunate that Ive not heard them side by side. However, Gymane has, and so have other peopl in this thread. All the reports tell me that there is a difference, an audible one. Spacial character is better with the dual monos. Now, Whether it is a night and day difference, don't know. Nicholas seems to feel there is a difference. I don't necessarily think that he would say that just for bucks alone. There is more involved in building the dulal mono versus the single one. In the long run, the TVC is still a bargain, no matter which one you get.

Ray

[gooberdude]

Ray is spot on, at least to my ears.   The difference is not enough for me to go out and get a new TVC though, i had to work to get the one I have! 

But, it was noticeable...less congestion of the center image - it was spread out farther.

If my trannies and chassis can be modded at a later date i may go that route though.

I've heard a lot of people disliking preamps with Dual volume controls, citing that its difficult if not impossible to get both channels in sync with one another...these are not from TVC users, just posts on other forums (probably from active pre folks). 

So, i'm wondering if any Promi TVC owners with the dual controls have had issues?   my guess is that due to the way the TVC handles volume increases in general, that the ill effects aren't present...just a guess though.    If the preamp had 12db of gain it might be a difft story.

matt

[guest1632]

Ray is spot on, at least to my ears.   The difference is not enough for me to go out and get a new TVC though, i had to work to get the one I have! 

But, it was noticeable...less congestion of the center image - it was spread out farther.

If my trannies and chassis can be modded at a later date i may go that route though.

I've heard a lot of people disliking preamps with Dual volume controls, citing that its difficult if not impossible to get both channels in sync with one another...these are not from TVC users, just posts on other forums (probably from active pre folks). 

So, i'm wondering if any Promi TVC owners with the dual controls have had issues?   my guess is that due to the way the TVC handles volume increases in general, that the ill effects aren't present...just a guess though.    If the preamp had 12db of gain it might be a difft story.

matt

Hi Matt,

When using the two controls, no real problem. What I had to make sure of is that they were both lined up with each other. This meant a slight adjustment after tightening up the nuts on the two rotary switches. I then was careful to align both knobs. It's a piece of cake. Now if there weren't any knotches when you turned the control, that would indeed be a problem. It's a very slight inconvenience but one you get used to pretty fast. lol

Ray

 

[jonners]

Would keeping the tranny wires away from the other trannie's wires reduce crosstalk?

ie, would reducing crosstalk increase stereo separation?

Yes to both questions - but in a vinyl-source system the reduction in crosstalk would be a very tiny percentage of the total, most of which comes from the cartridge. Still, there's lots of things that are audible but not measurable, so if people hear a difference that's fine by me.

[StereoJoe]

I have ordered the ebony knobs for my TVC, solely because of their looks and the fact that it should be easier to see which source and volume level is selected. I very much doubt that they have any sonic effects at all, but time will tell.

I don't quite get why some of you would add an active tubeamp to a system based around this TVC. Compared to my active, ss based preamp (a Hegel P4A) the TVC has more body and a "fatter" sound - kind of like some of the tube pre's I have listened to. If the system sounds thin/bright/lightweight with this TVC in place, I would rather start looking at speaker vs. room interactions or other components in the system. If your speakers (the single most important source of colorations and distortion!) are fairly balanced and the amp operates within its power envelope, what you basically hear is the system's source. In my view, it would be better to save up for a higher quality source which plays according to ones personal taste, than to add another source of coloration (the tube pre).

Am I way out of line?

edit: Just to clarify, I do prefer the TVC over my active pre amp. It differentiates choir voices better, and brass instruments sound more like the real thing. For the money, this is a winner.

[guest1632]

I have ordered the ebony knobs for my TVC, solely because of their looks and the fact that it should be easier to see which source and volume level is selected. I very much doubt that they have any sonic effects at all, but time will tell.

I don't quite get why some of you would add an active tubeamp to a system based around this TVC. Compared to my active, ss based preamp (a Hegel P4A) the TVC has more body and a "fatter" sound - kind of like some of the tube pre's I have listened to. If the system sounds thin/bright/lightweight with this TVC in place, I would rather start looking at speaker vs. room interactions or other components in the system. If your speakers (the single most important source of colorations and distortion!) are fairly balanced and the amp operates within its power envelope, what you basically hear is the system's source. I my view, it would be better to save up to a higher quality source which plays according to ones personal taste, than to add another source of coloration (the tube pre).

Am I way out of line?

Hi Stereojoe,

As a matter of fact, you are not out of line. There will be some that a properly matched active pre will make some form of difference. In a lot of cases, you've got the cream of the crop. Maybe, an active pre wouldn't be a good idea. Now as to why, don't have enouhgh data to make a proper determiniation.

Ray

[Early B.]

I have ordered the ebony knobs for my TVC, solely because of their looks and the fact that it should be easier to see which source and volume level is selected. I very much doubt that they have any sonic effects at all, but time will tell.

I don't quite get why some of you would add an active tubeamp to a system based around this TVC. Compared to my active, ss based preamp (a Hegel P4A) the TVC has more body and a "fatter" sound - kind of like some of the tube pre's I have listened to. If the system sounds thin/bright/lightweight with this TVC in place, I would rather start looking at speaker vs. room interactions or other components in the system. If your speakers (the single most important source of colorations and distortion!) are fairly balanced and the amp operates within its power envelope, what you basically hear is the system's source. In my view, it would be better to save up for a higher quality source which plays according to ones personal taste, than to add another source of coloration (the tube pre).

Am I way out of line?

edit: Just to clarify, I do prefer the TVC over my active pre amp. It differentiates choir voices better, and brass instruments sound more like the real thing. For the money, this is a winner.

No, you're not out of line. GHM has been saying this from the jump -- you gotta look at your source.

In many ways it defeats the purpose to introduce an active pre or buffer along with a TVC. One thing's for certain -- this TVC identifies weak links in the audio chain. Read the message, but don't shoot the messenger (i.e., the TVC).