Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

rollo · « **Reply #1200 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 09:07 pm »

Jonners,
I thought the steps were 2db increments on the volume selector. How can you adjust .5db? Yes to adjustment if you have an imbalance in your room or other component. Do you use any tubed components? If you do are the tubes matched? I found that a pair of tubes in my CDP were not matched and the adjustment of the affected channel remedied the problem. When I changed the tubes to a matched pair, the problem went away.

rollo

tdangelo · « **Reply #1201 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 09:11 pm »

I was wondering

Will a TVC break a ground loop/hum?

Thanks
Tony

jonners · « **Reply #1202 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 09:39 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 11 Mar 2007, 09:07 pm

Jonners,
I thought the steps were 2db increments on the volume selector. How can you adjust .5db? Yes to adjustment if you have an imbalance in your room or other component. Do you use any tubed components? If you do are the tubes matched? I found that a pair of tubes in my CDP were not matched and the adjustment of the affected channel remedied the problem. When I changed the tubes to a matched pair, the problem went away.

rollo

jonners · « **Reply #1203 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 09:45 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 11 Mar 2007, 09:07 pm

Jonners,
I thought the steps were 2db increments on the volume selector. How can you adjust .5db? Yes to adjustment if you have an imbalance in your room or other component. Do you use any tubed components? If you do are the tubes matched? I found that a pair of tubes in my CDP were not matched and the adjustment of the affected channel remedied the problem. When I changed the tubes to a matched pair, the problem went away.

rollo

Rollo, I can adjust 0.5dB in one channel by using my Behringer DEQ2496 (which I use for room correction) as a balance control. The channels in my system are closely matched electrically, so it's a room imbalance that I'm correcting for. Having the TVC in my system is making me more aware of the effects of these changes.
John

jonners · « **Reply #1204 on:** 11 Mar 2007, 09:57 pm »

Quote from: tdangelo on 11 Mar 2007, 09:11 pm

I was wondering Will a TVC break a ground loop/hum?

Thanks
Tony

Tony, it depends... If it is connected as a transformer, with a single-ended input to the primary winding and single-ended output from the secondary, then the input and output grounds can be separated. However, I think the current Promitheus TVCs are connected as autoformers, where the output is tapped off the same winding as the input. In this case, the grounds must remain connected.
John

rollo · « **Reply #1205 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 12:07 am »

. Having the TVC in my system is making me more aware of the effects of these changes.
John
[/quote]

You can say that again. Pretty transparent eh!

rollo

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1206 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 04:55 am »

Quote from: rollo on 11 Mar 2007, 08:43 pm

Dave and Paul,

Welcome to the good ship promitheus. You are going to like the tripath and TVC combo. It worked real well in my system [stock] the modified unit should be killer.

rollo

Rollo,

You're absolutely right. I hooked up the Clari-Ts and am listening to Il Divo singing their hearts out in my room tonight. Although bass could be better control and highs more extended, more open as with the Patek, midrange is as lush and full, head to head with the Patek.

rollo · « **Reply #1207 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 01:46 pm »

Paul,

When you reach over 300 HRs on the TVC the bass and top will open up. The bass will be more in focus and very tunefull. The top will have more air and decay as time goes on
Wait it out with the tweaks. Until fully broken in its tough to determine what is needed in your system. At this time use the same supports, shelves etc. you had set up for the piece it replaced. Apples to apples so to speak. If you do change things do ONE at a TIME and listen for a few days. You will hear the affects clearly so you can dial in the synergy to the system.
have fun

rollo

gooberdude · « **Reply #1208 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 02:07 pm »

Good point Rollo! Don't change a thing on your TVC until its been played for a month or so.

I didn't even open up the lid to see what's inside for 5 months...

davetroy · « **Reply #1209 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 05:03 pm »

Three questions, one I've already asked and two that I'm asking for the first time:

1. Does anyone out there have experience with the Morrison ELAD pre? If so, could you compare it to the Promitheus TVC?
2. Is anyone using an Ah! Tjoeb CD player with their TVC? If so, could you comment on the pairing?
3. The TVC is resulting in deeper, more controlled bass in my system. But why?

Thanks,
Dave

rollo · « **Reply #1210 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 06:51 pm »

Quote from: davetroy on 12 Mar 2007, 05:03 pm

Three questions, one I've already asked and two that I'm asking for the first time:

1. Does anyone out there have experience with the Morrison ELAD pre? If so, could you compare it to the Promitheus TVC?
2. Is anyone using an Ah! Tjoeb CD player with their TVC? If so, could you comment on the pairing?
3. The TVC is resulting in deeper, more controlled bass in my system. But why?

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,
The answer to question #1 is yes. The Morrison was colored in comparison and not as defined in the bass. Midrange more natural with Morrison. #2 do not know, however what ever the character of the CDP is that is what you will get. The TVC for the first time allowed me to hear what the CDP is capable of. If the Ah! Tjoeb CDP has an output voltage of 2V your in business. #3 the reason is that your CDP has better bass performance than the preamp you replaced. The source is critical to the performance of the TVC.

rollo

davetroy · « **Reply #1211 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 07:25 pm »

Rollo,

The Ah Tjoeb has an output voltage of 2.5, and it's adjustable down. I'm thinking of giving it a shot (Upscale Audio sells them with a 30-day return guarantee, less 10%) but I'm not so sure. I really like my Rotel 1072 with the TVC. And I'm afraid that a tube CDP will color the sound more than a solid state CDP.

As for question three, so you're saying that my previous pre-amp was messing up the CDP's signal? I guess I always suspected that, which is why the TVC works so well. So it's also possible that adding an active sub-woofer will result in too much bass?

Thanks for answering,
Dave

Quote from: rollo on 12 Mar 2007, 06:51 pm

Quote from: davetroy on 12 Mar 2007, 05:03 pm
Three questions, one I've already asked and two that I'm asking for the first time:

1. Does anyone out there have experience with the Morrison ELAD pre? If so, could you compare it to the Promitheus TVC?
2. Is anyone using an Ah! Tjoeb CD player with their TVC? If so, could you comment on the pairing?
3. The TVC is resulting in deeper, more controlled bass in my system. But why?

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,
The answer to question #1 is yes. The Morrison was colored in comparison and not as defined in the bass. Midrange more natural with Morrison. #2 do not know, however what ever the character of the CDP is that is what you will get. The TVC for the first time allowed me to hear what the CDP is capable of. If the Ah! Tjoeb CDP has an output voltage of 2V your in business. #3 the reason is that your CDP has better bass performance than the preamp you replaced. The source is critical to the performance of the TVC.

rollo

rollo · « **Reply #1212 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 07:40 pm »

Dave, the introduction of a sub if implemented properly will enhance the bass performance by giving you output to 20 HZ or less. I run mine direct from TVC and adjust internal crossover in sub to blend into Pipedreams. The Pipes are flat to 60 HZ. I set the sub at 55HZ and adjust volume accordingly. The sub is out of phase to the main speakers in my room. The other option is to connect the sub from your speaker terminals to the speaker inputs of the sub. Some prefer this setup in their systems. Try both ways to see what floats your boat.
Let me stress that you will not have too much bass just allot lower and deeper.

rollo

gooberdude · « **Reply #1213 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 07:55 pm »

Before buying a sub i thought it might introduce too much bass as well, which couldn't be further from the truth. a whole lot depends on room placement though.

What i was not expecting is how spatial information would show up with a sub... the soundstage is larger, musicians are larger...overall the sub just makes everything sound bigger, not louder.

the output of my sub when connected via an interconnect to my TVC was wildly difft than with the sub getting a signal from my amp. With the amp connection, the sound was more integrated and the sub simply disappeared. With the TVC connection the sub was ruckus and a rockin, but didn't disappear.

I'm expecting the arrival of 2 new 12" subs this wednesday...time to kick it up a notch!

davetroy · « **Reply #1214 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 08:09 pm »

I'm actually considering only one sub: the Vandersteen 2wq, an active subwoofer which connects to the amp via a high pass (and right now, I'm simply repeating what I've been told because I don't know what a high pass is, other than I think it's another word for crossover).

gooberdude · « **Reply #1215 on:** 12 Mar 2007, 08:10 pm »

you'll dig it no doubt!!! then for next Christmas, a stereo pair...

rollo · « **Reply #1216 on:** 13 Mar 2007, 04:10 pm »

Davetroy,

The common mistake us audiofools make is to mess with the system when it sounds good. If the Rotel CDP sounds the way you want, LEAVE IT ALONE for now. Live with the new TVC and front end for a while. If you have a digital out on the Rotel, in the future you may consider a DAC. The laid back character of the Rotel should have a nice synergy with the TVC. I know that the Pardisea and the Zahalou[ not sure of spelling] are great matches with the TVC.
Let the TVC fully break in before you experiment. You may just keep what you have. Just curious as to what you are looking for that the Rotel does not offer?
Just one more thing, try silver cables with the Rotel. They seem to work well with Rotel components. As you all know I am not a fan of silver wire, however in this case it helps.

rollo

davetroy · « **Reply #1217 on:** 13 Mar 2007, 04:17 pm »

The more I read, the more tempted I am to just sat back for a while (and possibly add a sub).

But I do have one question: Why does the Promitheus TVC need break-in? What, exactly, is breaking in? And how come audio products seem to be the only products (except cars and shoes) that need breaking in?

acresm22 · « **Reply #1218 on:** 13 Mar 2007, 04:38 pm »

Hi Dave,

The thing that is "breaking in" are your ears. I find some merit in the argument that speaker drivers can break in because there are mechanics involved, physically moving parts that would theoretically loosen up over time. Also, tubes will change sound as they age and deteroriate.
But wire? Call me a skeptic...

On another point, I've been living with my TVC for a week now. Amazing product. I finally went back and reread this entire thread...funnily enough, I bought Wendell's Dodd ELP when he upgraded to the TVC, and I bought Bikes and Beats' TVC. In my system, the TVC has replaced the Dodd, and I'm loving it. Am now in the process of tweaking the volume and input selector controls...not because I'm expecting any sonic benefits, but because this TVC has some sticky feeling controls due to the front panel holes not being perfecly in line with the controls themselves.

D.

gooberdude · « **Reply #1219 on:** 13 Mar 2007, 04:57 pm »

I'd like to think that my ears have taken 6 months to break in & enjoy this TVC, its not the case though.

i do agree our ears have a whole lot to do with it, like when i come home from work and the 1st 20 minutes or so aren't as 3-D compared to after an hr of play...but that may be the speaks loosening up or the TVC trannies gettin' charged or the stylus suspension gettin heated up - all combined with my ears and brain gettin ready for the session. it is a system ya know!

This TVC took well over a month to sound good to my ears, that is no joke or voodoo. If you've bought a new power cord or cables and heard them break in, its the same thing...only it takes longer with this preamp. lots more wire...

I've been intently listening to mine for months now, and swear it keeps changing...regardless of the little tweaks i've done. Aren't trannies made to last decades? makes sense they change right after coming out of Nick's hands.

Whether or not its real or imagined may not matter, fact is the little cigar box needs to be put through the ringer for 4-6 weeks before it really 'opens up'....once you get there, you'll see noone who has mentioned this is talkin' nonsense.

patience is such a bastard sometimes!

try and run a signal through your TVC whenver you aren't home, and when you are home rock out. Nick Chua can add more to this, but he has mentioned it takes a while, 20-30 min, for the trannies to get charged or magnetized. After your tvc is broken and you are used to what it does, you can hear this effect.

A few weeks back i stuck my cold TVC (hadn't been on in 24 hrs) into a warmed up super system...it sounded constricted for 10-15 min then began to slowly open up....not unlike the '96 Cali cabernets i'm fond of. first sip is rancid, last sip is heaven.

Once your ears are broken in to the sound of this TVC, they'll stay that way for a very long time