[GHM]

Hey Matt I was checking out the newer reference model on the site. Looks like this unit has a metal top and bottom. It should weight the TVC down pretty good. I listened to the Paradisea Dac with the TVC yesterday. This is an excellent match! I understand why Greg likes the combo so much now.

Too add we compared it against an Arcam DV27..terrific sounding player. The Paradesia held its own with a player that retailed for 5 times its price! The Paradesia was the fuller sounding of the two. My friend preferred the Dac over his much more expensive Arcam for two channel music.

Lovely, as that's the DAC I plan on getting...unless the Promitheus DAC will be an even better match! I emailed Nicholas after buying the latest reference version TVC in order to get some more details on his DAC. I'd get the single-ended, tube buffer version, hopefully with USB and TOSLINK connections. Then, we've got a good match-up for the Paradisea...which have been selling like hot cakes on eBay.

If your planning on matching these two..you're in for a treat!! This is a terrific combo..the kind you can listen too all day looong! Truly a match made in heaven..no kidding! You'll find yourself upgrading amplifiers and such just to keep up with the sound.

[NewBuyer]

...I listened to the Paradisea Dac with the TVC yesterday. This is an excellent match!...

GHM, with everything else held fixed in your system with TVC, except the following:

- Audio-Sector DAC with Burson Buffer;
- Paradisea (solo)

Do you notice any sonic differences between these two arrangements? Could you describe please?

[GHM]

...I listened to the Paradisea Dac with the TVC yesterday. This is an excellent match!...

GHM, with everything else held fixed in your system with TVC, except the following:

- Audio-Sector DAC with Burson Buffer;
- Paradisea (solo)

Do you notice any sonic differences between these two arrangements? Could you describe please?

First thing I noticed was how much closer things got with the Paradisea by itself..this thing needs no help from an external buffer. Voices are more upfront as well as everything else..

With the AS Dac and Burson buffer combo..everything sits a little further back. It was like stepping 10 feet back swapping between setups.

The Paradisea has a slightly fuller sound. The AS combo is just a tad more resolving. The Paradesia Dacs voltage out is definitely higher than the AS Dac.

The AS Dac sounds a tad more relaxed because of this. The Paradisea has a stronger bass output because of the higher voltage.

When I switched over to the AS Dac/ Burson..it was like I turned the volume down by one or two steps.

They sound more a like than different..which is very surprising!! The Paradisea is a helluva dac when used with the Monarchy. It was just mediocre without it sounding a bit glarey on the guitar strums . The soundstage also became less defined as the music seemed to stick around the speakers instead of get out into the room. The AS Dac showed the same weakness when hooked directly to my transport.

[NewBuyer]

Yes we had better include the AS/Burson combo here (rather than just AS by itself), otherwise voltage/impedance issues would really mess up the comparison. Better to always include the upsampler too, I'm guessing.

You mentioned the AS/Burson combo is more resolving. Is it correct to infer from your last post, that the AS/Burson combo is throwing a deeper soundstage? Less tube distortion = more accurate, etc? Would you characterize one or the other as less fatiguing, more natural sounding, etc? [This hobby is always fun verbally isn't it ]

[GHM]

Yes we had better include the AS/Burson combo here (rather than just AS by itself), otherwise voltage/impedance issues would really mess up the comparison. Better to always include the upsampler too, I'm guessing.

You mentioned the AS/Burson combo is more resolving. Is it correct to infer from your last post, that the AS/Burson combo is throwing a deeper soundstage? Less tube distortion = more accurate, etc? Would you characterize one or the other as less fatiguing, more natural sounding, etc? [This hobby is always fun verbally isn't it ]

 ..That's a tough one Newbuyer...they both sound natural too me. Yes the AS/Burson seems deeper. I think this is just because of the lower voltage or gain. With the Paradisea the musicians step just infront of the speakers. Where as their behind the speakers with the AS/Burson combo.

Guitar finger play is slightly more delicate on the AS/Burson..but the Paradesia makes the guitars sound fuller and a tad more vibrant. The 1545 chip(Paradesia and Constantine) may have the edge in midrange resolution over the 1543 used in my Dac. There's no real winner in this . I like the Paradesia quite a bit and would be very happy to live with it.
It would boil down to which sound you prefer... laid back or more up front. I just checked the description on Ebay . The designer described the sound of his Dacs pretty well.The AS Dac and the MHDT Dialogue 2 should be very similar in sound..due to lower voltage. I also see where he mentions using a better clock on the source side would make a positive difference..that's where the DIP or GW Labs unit comes in at.

As mentioned previously, they both sounded like garbage without the upsampler in the loop in my system. Not completely sure why though . Maybe my transport just sucks really bad!

[acd483]

As mentioned previously, they both sounded like garbage without the upsampler in the loop in my system. Not completely sure why though . Maybe my transport just sucks really bad!

That's odd to have to upsample. I plan on using my Mac Mini having read nothing beats a computer as a transport, period. I specifically searched for non-oversampling and non-upsampling DACs to avoid that "kink" in the system. Do you have a computer with an optical audio out? I'd be very interested to find out how different your system sounds at that point (and whether you still need to upsample).

P.S. I plan on powering my setup with a B&K EX-442 rated at 200w/ch into a pair of ADS L1290 speakers. I think that should suffice, no?

[GHM]

As mentioned previously, they both sounded like garbage without the upsampler in the loop in my system. Not completely sure why though . Maybe my transport just sucks really bad!

That's odd to have to upsample. I plan on using my Mac Mini having read nothing beats a computer as a transport, period. I specifically searched for non-oversampling and non-upsampling DACs to avoid that "kink" in the system. Do you have a computer with an optical audio out? I'd be very interested to find out how different your system sounds at that point (and whether you still need to upsample).

P.S. I plan on powering my setup with a B&K EX-442 rated at 200w/ch into a pair of ADS L1290 speakers. I think that should suffice, no?

If I'm not mistaken Newbuyer uses a computer as a transport. He still finds the upsampler to make quite a difference. I've asked the designer of my Dac and one other very knowledgeable designer. They didn't have a real answer either for the differences. The fact is the up-samplers do something that even the computer cannot with these units.

Don't get me wrong the Dacs aren't going to sound bad without the upsampler. But once you hear them with the upsampler..removing it won't be easy..I can assure you of that. Your equipment should be just fine with this gear. When I said you'll be looking for other gear to keep up with it. I meant the Dac and TVC punch well above the cost vs performance ratio. Neither one of these components would be out of place in a 20 thousand dollar system.

[anubisgrau]

The 1545 chip(Paradesia and Constantine) may have the edge in midrange resolution over the 1543 used in my Dac. There's no real winner in this . I like the Paradesia quite a bit and would be very happy to live with it.
It would boil down to which sound you prefer... laid back or more up front.

without hijackin the promitheus thread, i am wondering if there's anyone who had a chance to compare paradisea and constantine DACs. with paradisea DAC i might have 2 issues - first is that i tend to keep most of my equipment on 24/7 and that sucks with tube gear. second, not sure that tubes don't add some extra "spice" which is actually a step away from accurate reproduction towards an artificial pleasure.
could be i'm wrong, i'm just seeking for more on differences between 2 DACs

[GHM]

Hi Gordon ..you didn't see Scott's review comparing the two? Here it is Mhdt Laboratory
Paradisea and Constantine DACs. 

[acd483]

without hijackin the promitheus thread, i am wondering if there's anyone who had a chance to compare paradisea and constantine DACs. with paradisea DAC i might have 2 issues - first is that i tend to keep most of my equipment on 24/7 and that sucks with tube gear. second, not sure that tubes don't add some extra "spice" which is actually a step away from accurate reproduction towards an artificial pleasure.
could be i'm wrong, i'm just seeking for more on differences between 2 DACs

The Constantine is purely solid state which will deliver a more accurate representation of the recording, however it may also be to clarified in sound if you're running a purely solid state system. I'm interested in the Paradisea because I'm seeking some tube warmth in an other wise solid state setup. It's just about what kind of sound you're trying to acheive. My father got the Constantine because he is planning on pairing that with a Fisher 500 tube receiver...so in that case, it's best to have the most accurate and un-colored sound being piped into the Fisher in order to let it work its own magic.

Bringing this back to Promitheus, it will be very exciting to see how Nicholas's DAC stacks up against the Paradisea, and if it has a USB input, I will probably spring for it as that's what the Paradisea currently lacks. I should note the Constantine does include a USB input, which is great when using a computer as your transport.

[maxwalrath]

Hopefully I'll be getting a second Promitheus unit. This will allow me the opportunity to loan one out to the AC members that ask me about trying it out in their systems without having to buy a unit out right.

If you do get a second one, I'd love to give it a listen. I'm using a Patek now also, but I'm thinking of going back to an integrated for $$ reasons and to buy an LCD TV. I've been on the fence about trying one for a while.

No problem at all maxwalrath. I have one other AC member that I've promised a listen so far. As soon as I get word of the other one shipping out. I'll send this one to him. After he listens for a week or so. I'll have him send it to you. Lonewolf has taught me a lot about sharing. That's what I love about this site. There's a wealth of nice peole here that do the same! I've still got to get the current one back from my friend..he doesn't want to let it go!

Thanks Gymane! I REALLY hope I like it..that extra cash would be great.

[brashgordon]

I just finalized my REV 3 TVC purchase ....

I'll have $615.00 in this unseen and unheard device ... so far ...

silver RCA's, Ebony knobs, dual mono controls,
brass plates, waxed chassis ... 

and ....I'm done .... Sig-Oth compels me to pause ....

Nicholas started me out with a $340.00 box.... sold me some cables ....
dropped a few suggestions ....

and then I waited for a minute ....

and suddenly ..... there were upgrades .... everywhere ...

And as we all know .... upgrades ... are good .... LOL


The final price is reasonable ...
but I'm anxious ... to hear the product ....


I'll never know.... what the the REV 1 was all about ...


I hope Nicholas .... will build and ship ....

and will just .....wait and think....... about more MOD's .....

until   AFTER Christmas ....

[anubisgrau]

how long do you need to wait? can't believe it's after x-mas???

[NewBuyer]

...Yes the AS/Burson seems deeper. I think this is just because of the lower voltage or gain. With the Paradisea the musicians step just infront of the speakers. Where as their behind the speakers with the AS/Burson combo.

Guitar finger play is slightly more delicate on the AS/Burson..but the Paradesia makes the guitars sound fuller and a tad more vibrant. The 1545 chip(Paradesia and Constantine) may have the edge in midrange resolution over the 1543...

Thanks for giving your impressions GHM!

Are you sure that the differences you are hearing between the Paradisea and AS/Burson combo, would be due to different voltage/gain structures in the DACs? The reason I ask, is that the Burson Buffer should be more than making up for any voltage/impedance/gain shortcomings from the Audio Sector DAC alone. In fact, the Burson contributes (I believe) +6db gain, and with the excellent power supply in the Burson, voltage should certainly not be lacking. Input impedance is 500K ohms, and output impedance is reduced down to around 15 to 30 ohms.

The differences may instead be due to the passive I/V design, and the lack of any tube buffer distortion in the Audio Sector unit. Not to mention they use different DAC chips (TDA1545a vs TDA1543) and different digital receiver chips (CS8414 and CS8412)!  Who knows, perhaps it's something completely different from these!

Do you have the Paradisea located a reasonable distance away from the TVC? I've found the TVC can pick up EMI from the Mhdt if stacked together...

P.S. What, no more evil monkey?

[GHM]

...Yes the AS/Burson seems deeper. I think this is just because of the lower voltage or gain. With the Paradisea the musicians step just infront of the speakers. Where as their behind the speakers with the AS/Burson combo.

Guitar finger play is slightly more delicate on the AS/Burson..but the Paradisea makes the guitars sound fuller and a tad more vibrant. The 1545 chip(Paradisea and Constantine) may have the edge in midrange resolution over the 1543...

Thanks for giving your impressions GHM!

Are you sure that the differences you are hearing between the Paradisea and AS/Burson combo, would be due to different voltage/gain structures in the DACs? The reason I ask, is that the Burson Buffer should be more than making up for any voltage/impedance/gain shortcomings from the Audio Sector DAC alone. In fact, the Burson contributes (I believe) +6db gain, and with the excellent power supply in the Burson, voltage should certainly not be lacking. Input impedance is 500K ohms, and output impedance is reduced down to around 15 to 30 ohms.

The differences may instead be due to the passive I/V design, and the lack of any tube buffer distortion in the Audio Sector unit. Not to mention they use different DAC chips (TDA1545a vs TDA1543) and different digital receiver chips (CS8414 and CS8412)!   Who knows, perhaps it's something completely different from these!

Do you have the Paradisea located a reasonable distance away from the TVC? I've found the TVC can pick up EMI from the Mhdt if stacked together...

P.S. What, no more evil monkey?

  Hey NewBuyer..I thought I would mix it up a bit! I've always like David Chapelle's show.

Well ..after comparing the MHDT to the Arcam which has 2.5 volts output. There's no doubt this thing puts out some serious voltage.. It has to be at least 3 volts or more.

Yup the difference in dacs and receivers is making a noticeable distinction in sound between the two. I put my AS Dac back in tonight. The differences were even more noticeable. Some won't like the 1543 sound..it doesn't highlight any particular part of the music. Where as the Paradisea gives more of a contrast in sound. The Solid State 1543 based Dac even without the tubes is more laid back than the tubed Paradisea.

I'm not sure my buffer is doing the 6dB thing. It's more like 1 or 2 dB tops.Everything is there just not on a grand scale as the Tubed based Paradisea. I have the Paradisea 3 shelves up from the TVC..no problems at all.

[NewBuyer]

...Wish I had a pair.

Don't you think you're being a little hard on yourself there, Randy? 

(Sorry man couldn't help it) 

[GHM]

...Wish I had a pair.

Don't you think you're being a little hard on yourself there, Randy? 

(Sorry man couldn't help it) 

New Buyer...you're a nut man !!!

I was just surfing over on the AA forums. Looks like one of the Promitheus owners has replaced his Conrad Johnson 17LS with the Promitheus. I think the Promitheus has finally hit that giant killer status. Any way you look at it..if an audiophile replaces a $4500 tube preamp for a $300 to $400 passive..he's either crazy or he's found something much better for his system for less.
This doesn't guarantee it will be the magic bullet for all..but it shows the little preamp is no joke!

Looks like Brash Gordon got The Full Monty..WOW!! You don't mess around do you.

[JLM]

Brashgordon,

I'm easily tempted to do the same, (only a couple of hundred bucks more and I already have monoblock power amps) but was wondering:

Can a dual mono unit be fitted with multiple inputs;

Can one have both single ended/balanced in the same unit;

If so, could a single ended/balanced/dual mono/multiple input unit be built?

[PromitheusAudio]

Hi guys
Being abit late on this, silver cables require a long period of time to bloom. I need to run about 200 hours plus for it to smoothen down. Apart from the long run in time i find the silver is something i truely like. However once of the biggest advantage as well as major disadvantage about silver is that it is very revealing. It the system or the recording is bad you will hear it very apparent in the playback. THere also no extra being added to the sound. I like it because of this, my cables don't change as they act as a neutral component. They show me what the amps and front end can do. This way i know what is good or lacking. I do not like to use cables to compensate as this is a very expensive thing to do later when you change a component i.e. cdp/ amp as this will change the whole tonal quality

This was over the weekend, i was testing out our new brass plate. mind you this cost  like 4X stainless steel price here. If not for Gordon's and Matt highly recommend component i would not have gone for it. Eventhough i knew brass was a very inert material
Here is our they look on our reference balance tvc



On the sound when we compared with our stainless steel version. in short there was 2 immediate purchase for the brass version   

Cheers
nicholas

[brashgordon]

Not sure if I'm the "Gordon" being made reference to ... but I did order the brass plates...
and the dual mono's ... and the Ebony knobs ...

I've never had a problem balancing volume ... just componants ...

Don't know if the Ebony knobs  do anything more than add a touch of ...wood ...
but I like them ...

I know what "clean" silver sounds like ... and it's good.

I can't think of a reason why having a pair of balanced "in -n- outs" would be a problem
with dual mono V/C...

 if there is ... I'll rely upon Nicholas to fix it or advise of changes necessary etc ...

I'm not an engineer ... just a proud listener ....

I wanted to get the BEST he has to offer at this moment ...\\\\\\
 (Please God ... no more mods until after Christmas)

Waiting now ... for developments in his DAC ... tube buffer ???

Also looking at the MHDT Labs Paradisea ... but if Nicholas' TVC is as good for me
as it has been for you folks......well ... I'm a loyal shopper...


GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG