[NewBuyer]

...The energizer was there as well...

Would be very interested to hear more about your experience with the energizer. What does it look like? Did you have a chance to do a "before-and-after" style comparison, to see if it makes audible differences? I understand the unit is very heavy too - did it cost a great deal to have it shipped to wherever you are located?

[akmal00]

...The energizer was there as well...

Would be very interested to hear more about your experience with the energizer. What does it look like? Did you have a chance to do a "before-and-after" style comparison, to see if it makes audible differences? I understand the unit is very heavy too - did it cost a great deal to have it shipped to wherever you are located?

I am not a technical person. From what I can describe it is a multiple power extension. However the way that   
it is used is not to supply power for multiple components from a single wall socket but just to plug into the same curcuit as your other components. It has a detachable IEC socket so you can choose the power cord to your liking.

It improves the midrange and treble and overall clarity. But the effect of a good power cord was very important. I will try to get a picture of it if the local dealer that carries a few of Nick's products permits me to do it. For the technical aspect of it I don't know. But it does improve the system a lot. Will try to see if I can try it in my own system. I am in the same city as Nick, so there was no shipping cost. It does weight a bit. Will post when I had a second listen especially if I buy it from Nick.

[anubisgrau]

i am wondering if there is - apart from impedance issues - anything that can distract TVCs from being a good choice.

my plan is to use TVC with ATC active loudspeakers with notoriously low impedance parameters. the power packs of ATCs have 10.000 ohm input impedance and my experience with active preamps is that the optimum output impedance of the preamps is under 100 ohms (the lower the better) in this setup.

they also requre 1V from a preamp for maximum output.

i am currently using a CDP with 50ohm output impedance and soon there will be a DAC with 100ohm output impedance too.

can anyone foresee any troubles with this?

it would be great to hear if there any users of TVC and ATCs and there should be some because the ATC owners are famous for seeking for very neutral and non-colourated components. i still have to hear an active preamp - and i've heard them many - that is 100% free of colourations.

[GHM]

i am wondering if there is - apart from impedance issues - anything that can distract TVCs from being a good choice.

my plan is to use TVC with ATC active loudspeakers with notoriously low impedance parameters. the power packs of ATCs have 10.000 ohm input impedance and my experience with active preamps is that the optimum output impedance of the preamps is under 100 ohms (the lower the better) in this setup.

they also requre 1V from a preamp for maximum output.

i am currently using a CDP with 50ohm output impedance and soon there will be a DAC with 100ohm output impedance too.

can anyone foresee any troubles with this?

it would be great to hear if there any users of TVC and ATCs and there should be some because the ATC owners are famous for seeking for very neutral and non-colourated components. i still have to hear an active preamp - and i've heard them many - that is 100% free of colourations.

Hi Gordon..didn't you asked this question a couple of weeks ago?
Your ATCs are very sensitive. A 1 volt input amplifier is great with passives. That's as long as the source has decent output voltage /impedance..which you seem to have in spades. I remember you saying the output of the source is like 4 volts? The source wouldn't break a sweat driving your power packs.

AS far as 100% free coloration goes..that's pretty much in the ear of the beholder. Some seek no coloration and when they get it, they find it's not to their liking..be careful for what you wish. With roughly only four copper wires in between the source and the amplifier..I'm not sure just how much more transparent you can get. Sure you can get a different sound but more transparent..I don't know.

Good listening

[anubisgrau]

yes, i apologize for double posting - but i couldn't see if i've got any reply after my original post. i am just getting paranoid about a preamp choice for my ATCs. they are soooo revealing of any imperfection upstream that ...... don't ask.

i've order the TVC anyway. i will post my thoughts in a couple of weeks.

[GHM]

yes, i apologize for double posting - but i couldn't see if i've got any reply after my original post. i am just getting paranoid about a preamp choice for my ATCs. they are soooo revealing of any imperfection upstream that ...... don't ask.

i've order the TVC anyway. i will post my thoughts in a couple of weeks.

Gordon no need to apologize. I'm betting you'll find your paranoia unfounded. The TVC will reveal the weakness, strength's and the character of the source. So prepare to hear what the source sounds like for better or worse. Some will like what their source sounds like and some won't..that's just the nature of the beast.
From there you can either fix the source or find something to cover it up.

I was reading over this review of the Django TVC  yesterday. I realized everything this reviewer described I heard when I replaced the pot in my unit. These same descriptions were the differences my friend and I heard when testing the TVC against the EE minimax in his system..I mean this guy is spot on!

Something I didn't mention about my friend's experience. When he first turned the music on. It was LOUD I'm talking 100 db loud. I recognized this from the start. He didn't notice just how loud the music was. I told him to slowly crank the volume down after 15 minutes. I also told him after a few minutes at this level he wouldn't remember how high it was from the start as everything would still be present.

Just like I said he forgot. 20 minutes later he was turning the volume down again. I had a good laugh about this as I knew it would happen. Yesterday he called me and said he had turned the volume down several more times since the day before. Only thing I can think of is he was so accustom to the noise floor of the EE minimax. It took his ears some time to adjust to nearly no noise floor with the TVC. I'm betting you'll do the same thing..I know I did!

[PromitheusAudio]

anubisgrau
Sorry for the late reply was away again on the soldering table.

I check with the carpenter yesterday on your white paint job. THe carpenter mention that it is possible for us to offer the tvc in white in color. Hope this satisfies your home decor color

Here are some pictures of the Power Energizer in Metal Chassis




On the hybrid as mention by Akmal it will be
1) Dual mono block and a SINGLE power supply box
The cables of the power supply can be made long so that you can place the amplifiers near to the speakers

Cheers
nicholas

[NewBuyer]

Nicholas, could you please comment more for us about the Power Energizer, and how exactly it is intended to contribute to a system?

Especially if you could refer to page 28 of this thread, to see some questions that were already expressed earlier about the product, this would be very helpful to us please...

[PromitheusAudio]

Okay i will be going out on a limb on this.

From what i understand, forgive me as i am an mechatronics engineer not an EE.
excepts from a wiki

Power is defined as the rate of flow of energy past a given point. In alternating current circuits, energy storage elements such as inductance and capacitance may result in periodic reversals of the direction of energy flow. The portion of power flow that, averaged over a complete cycle of the AC waveform, results in net transfer of energy in one direction is known as real power. On the other hand, the portion of power flow due to stored energy, which returns to the source in each cycle, is known as reactive power

Power factor equals unity (1) when the voltage and current are in phase, and is zero when the current leads or lags the voltage by 90 degrees. Power factor must be specified as leading or lagging. For two systems transmitting the same amount of real power, the system with the lower power factor will have higher circulating currents due to energy that returns to the source from energy storage in the load. These higher currents in a practical system may produce higher losses and reduce overall transmission efficiency. A lower power factor circuit will have a higher apparent power and higher losses for the same amount of real power transfer.

Capacitive circuits cause reactive power with the current waveform leading the voltage wave by 90 degrees, while inductive circuits cause reactive power with the current waveform lagging the voltage waveform by 90 degrees

.

My idea
a)
so i am thinking what if all of our stuff with capacitors used as energy storage and a medium to smoothen ripple are actually causing current waveform to lead the voltage waveform. And having a choke device like our power energizer to forced the current waveform to lag thus offsetting the powerfactor close to 1(ideal)

b)
Being a choke device it acts natural as a short circuit path to ground due to inductors not able to take high frequency. This way any form of noise above 50k gets shunted to ground.
when i just install a unit here, i find that the first thing is the noise level drops. this should support this theory above

Well i hope this helps. again from my understanding. All i know it works really well and i would like people to experience this effect. Only problem is that they weight 45lbs to ship and is slighlty expensive to ship

[Steve Eddy]

My idea
a)
so i am thinking what if all of our stuff with capacitors used as energy storage and a medium to smoothen ripple are actually causing current waveform to lead the voltage waveform. And having a choke device like our power energizer to forced the current waveform to lag thus offsetting the powerfactor close to 1(ideal)

Something you seem to be overlooking is that there already are large inductors across the AC line. Though we usually call them "power transformers" which is probably why most people don't think of them in terms such as inductance.

But every transformer has a property called "primary inductance." In an ideal transformer, primary inductance would be infinite. We can't get infinite inductance in any realworld transformer so we just try to make it as large as possible. Particularly for power transformers that are operating at low frequencies.

Also, the power transformer's primary inductance is a shunt inductance. Therefore, placing another inductance across the AC line is placing that inductance in parallel with the primary inductance of the power transformer. While capacitance adds in parallel, inductance does not. The total inductance of multiple inductors in parallel is calculated just as it is for resistance, i.e. 1/(1/L1 + 1/L2 + 1/Ln...).

Just as putting two 10 ohm resistors in parallel results in a total resistance of just 5 ohms, putting two 10 Henry inductors in parallel results in a total inductance of just 5 Henry.

b)
Being a choke device it acts natural as a short circuit path to ground due to inductors not able to take high frequency. This way any form of noise above 50k gets shunted to ground.

That's incorrect. It's the other way around. An inductor would only act as a short circuit path to ground at DC. Above DC, the inductor's reactance increases at 2 x pi x f x L where f is the frequency in Hertz and L is the inductance in Henrys. In other words, as frequency increases, the inductor appears more and more like an open circuit, not a short circuit.

when i just install a unit here, i find that the first thing is the noise level drops. this should support this theory above

Except for the one small detail that your theory above violates several physical laws of nature (see Faraday's Law and Lenz's Law for example).

If indeed there is an actual drop in noise level, it would be due not to the inductor's inductance, which is behaving just the opposite of how you think it is, but rather the indcutor's parasitic winding capacitance. This capacitance would be a shunt capacitance and would in fact behave as you were thinking the inductor would behave, in that it would act as a short circuit path to ground at high frequencies as capacitive reactance is the reciprocal of inductive reactance in the form of 1/(2 x pi x f x C).

And by the way, in case you weren't aware, Richard Gray of The Richard Gray Power Company already holds a patent on using a big choke across the AC line just as you're doing (6,198,643). I don't like the guy so he's not going to hear anything from me, just that it's something you should be aware of.

se

[ebag4]

Can someone give me the dimensions of the TVCs transformers?

Thanks,
Ed

[PromitheusAudio]

steve
Thanks for some light here

But just like to highlight to you, on a true inductor, inductance increase as frequency increases.
But like any transformer designer biggest problem is leakage inductance and HF. So after a certain frequency the inductance drops massively due core and leakage inductance. So after a while you would have no/very low inductance at high frequency. Something to do that core cannot get excited well and there will be alot of HF loss.

Core lamination also plays appart like, I am using Z11/m6 0.35mm plates, this allows frequency normally around 20-30khz (thru experience making opt using this size).

What do you think steve? does it making sense why at high frequency it is a short. There are some parts that i did not manage to spell out well i think. It early in the morning here, and i am a wee bit drowsy and blur

On richard gray patent, how do one still sell and make this? any way around this?

Cheers
nicholas

[GHM]

Can someone give me the dimensions of the TVCs transformers?

Thanks,
Ed

If I had mine here Ed  . I would give you the dimensions on it.

I should have one of those Energizers here within the next two weeks for a demo. Wait till I hear what this thing can do Nick, before you get cold feet on the patents.

[NewBuyer]

GHM, I am very interested in hearing your feedback on the Power Energizer when you receive it. If you like it, I will probably buy one right away too.

Very interesting technical discussion here between Steve and Nicholas, I'm following it with great interest.

On the patent thing, while Richard Gray holds the US patent in question, I do not see any indication that he ever attempted to receive an international patent. I believe it would be extremely difficult for Richard Gray to receive an international patent on a choke device like this, even if he ever does apply for one. Operating out of Malaysia, I very much doubt that Nicholas will ever have anything to worry about, regarding any US patent...

[GHM]

GHM, I am very interested in hearing your feedback on the Power Energizer when you receive it. If you like it, I will probably buy one right away too.

Very interesting technical discussion here between Steve and Nicholas, I'm following it with great interest.

On the patent thing, while Richard Gray holds the US patent in question, I do not see any indication that he ever attempted to receive an international patent. I believe it would be extremely difficult for Richard Gray to receive an international patent on a choke device like this, even if he ever does apply for one. Operating out of Malaysia, I very much doubt that Nicholas will ever have anything to worry about, regarding any US patent...

Thank you Newbuyer..that makes me feel better. Nicholas said it should be ready to ship by the end of the week. I'm really looking forward to it . I'll be trying it in two different systems in two different homes to get a feel of what it does. I'll run it through its paces and let you know how it turns out.

[gooberdude]

hey GHM,

Do you plan on setting the Energizers on dedicated stands? 

[GHM]

hey GHM,

Do you plan on setting the Energizers on dedicated stands? 

Hi Matt,

I'm going to set it on the floor for now. If it works out... there maybe a stand in the future. I really don't have the room for all that stuff though. I plan to get some tube or hybrid monoblocks in the near future if things work out. Room is going to get very tight.

[Steve Eddy]

steve
Thanks for some light here

You're welcome. And thank you for taking it in the constructive vein that it was intended.

But just like to highlight to you, on a true inductor, inductance increase as frequency increases.

Do you mean reactance? Because inductance tends to decrease as frequency increases due to eddy current looses and the like.

But like any transformer designer biggest problem is leakage inductance and HF. So after a certain frequency the inductance drops massively due core and leakage inductance. So after a while you would have no/very low inductance at high frequency. Something to do that core cannot get excited well and there will be alot of HF loss.

Yes, in a transformer, leakage inductance and winding capacitance work together to limit high frequency response, but of course with an inductor, you don't have leakage current. At least not in the same respect as you do in a transformer as leakage inductance in a transformer is due to the non-ideal magnetic coupling between the primary and secondary windings.

What do you think steve? does it making sense why at high frequency it is a short. There are some parts that i did not manage to spell out well i think. It early in the morning here, and i am a wee bit drowsy and blur

Heh, know what you mean.

But anyway, the only thing I really see being responsible for anything like a short at high frequency is the winding capacitance. And if that's the case, then well, you're using an awful lot of iron and copper just to make a capacitor.

It just seems to me that if placing a large inductance across the AC line were of some benefit, other than some filtering effects due to winding capacitance, one would think that in the 100+ years we've been using AC power we've have figured that out long before now.

On richard gray patent, how do one still sell and make this? any way around this?

Well as others have noted, with your living Malaysia, there may not be much he can do about it even if he wanted to. But I'm no lawyer, so...

I just thought it was something you should at least be aware of.

se

[ashok]

But every transformer has a property called "primary inductance." In an ideal transformer, primary inductance would be infinite. We can't get infinite inductance in any realworld transformer so we just try to make it as large as possible. Particularly for power transformers that are operating at low frequencies.

Also, the power transformer's primary inductance is a shunt inductance. Therefore, placing another inductance across the AC line is placing that inductance in parallel with the primary inductance of the power transformer. While capacitance adds in parallel, inductance does not. The total inductance of multiple inductors in parallel is calculated just as it is for resistance, i.e. 1/(1/L1 + 1/L2 + 1/Ln...).

By primary inductance of a transformer that is a shunt, I hope you are referring to the magnetizing branch of the transformer representing the core.

The impedances representing the windings themselves will be series impedances. The equivalent circuit for a single-phase transformer then looks like a T-circuit, with one impedance representing the primary, in series with another representing the secondary, with the magnetizing branch as a shunt, from the T-point.

For steady-state phasor analysis at 60Hz (or 50Hz), the magnetizing branch is usually neglected, since it is practically an open-circuit.

Ashok

[Steve Eddy]

By primary inductance of a transformer that is a shunt, I hope you are referring to the magnetizing branch of the transformer representing the core.

I am referring to the inductance that represents the parasitic, non-infinite inductance of the primary, which in the first order transformer model is a shunt inductance across the primary of an ideal transformer.

The impedances representing the windings themselves will be series impedances. The equivalent circuit for a single-phase transformer then looks like a T-circuit, with one impedance representing the primary, in series with another representing the secondary, with the magnetizing branch as a shunt, from the T-point.

Not sure exactly what you mean here by "the impedances representing the windings themselves..."

With an ideal transformer, the windings have no particular impedance per se. They simply reflect the impedances across them by the square of the turns ratio.

Now in the first order model, the winding resistances are series resistances. But the load impedance across the secondary is reflected across the primary and is a shunt element.

For steady-state phasor analysis at 60Hz (or 50Hz), the magnetizing branch is usually neglected, since it is practically an open-circuit.

Not sure exactly what you mean by "magnetizing branch."

Here is the first order model for low frequency analysis:



And here is the first order model for high frequency analysis:



se