Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #680 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 09:07 am »

Quote

So where do I get this "Finite Elemente Cerapucs" stuff?

Regards,
[Ray]

JLM · « **Reply #681 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 10:20 am »

You're da man wolfny!

Question for you guys with all these various footers/etc.:

How does the floor structure/covering, and rack design/material/footers effect the performance of the described footers? I ask because with this degree of tweaking the floor/rack stuff has got to have an effect. Concrete slab versus suspended wood, carpet versus hard flooring, various rack designs would seem to all have as big of an effect as footer/support/weights. And while we're on this topic, seems like the speaker footer/support would play a far larger factor as its the mechanical device here.

And of course we have to factor in standard vs reference, copper vs silver, type of knobs, steel vs brass plates, and now silver vs double silver.

jaspal kallar · « **Reply #682 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 10:53 am »

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 5 Jan 2007, 09:00 am

Quote from: tbabb on 5 Jan 2007, 02:21 am
That's really good info to know! I already have some brass footers, Cerapucs and 3" thick Maple platform ready and waiting for my TVC to arrive. So I guess with this new info, I'll just keep my TVC with the single run for now.

From my experience there is not one component in my system that has not benefited from better footers and proper vibration grounding.

For what it's worth, for components, I found Finite Elemente Cerapucs were superior in imaging and micro-detail than the brass footers. Brass adds a bit of color, but for some that's a good thing.

Tim

[quote a

So where do I get this "Finite Elemente Cerapucs" stuff?

Regards,
[Ray]

They seem really expensive compared to brass. I was wondering though tbabb if you noticed a big difference between the brass and Cerapucs footer?

Is it me or does it seem that the TVC will only really sound good if you invest in additional (expensive) isolation equipment?

I don't mind doing that but I would like to do it as cheaply as possible. Otherwise it negates the rather cheap price of the TVC. I think I'll start out by brass footers and the good 'ol kitchen chopping boards.

- jaspal.

launche · « **Reply #683 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 02:08 pm »

I here ya jasp,
As I commented before it seems many have as much invested in what's supporting the TVC than the TVC costs

But for many I assume they are just using what they already had.
I don't know that I would run out and buy fancy supports for the TVC per se.
Use Nicks footers and see how you like it. Like many components more performance can be extracted with various tweaks but that's to one's own pursuit and taste, I think the TVC sounds good with supplied wood footers and better still with other devices.

I think we can thank gooberdude for all this

But I think it is good to know the unit responds well to such tuning.
I myself intended to use Nicks footers initially but after reading gooberdude's comments I took my Symposium Rollerblocks V2's from another component and put them under the TVC and haven't removed them since. And yes note that the Rollerblocks cost as much as the TVC

For now they are staying put but I'll be experimenting to find a cheaper alternative that works as well.

And what's this trading transparency for weight talk, transparency is golden.
I'm going to assume we're using the wrong terminology here and assume some are requesting a warmer tonal balance for their system or more image density.

tbabb · « **Reply #684 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 02:56 pm »

Try the ceraballs then first, this is their lesser expensive product. However the cerapucs offer more weight the sound. I ordered mine from Music Direct. If I didn't like the effect I could of returned them for full money back.

Yea it seems kinda silly to spend almost as much on footers and such as the equipment itself, but thats exactly what I've done to all of my equipment. I have not returned any of it.

Both mapleshade and music direct offer money back, so just order both and do your own comparisons and return whatever you didnt like.

- Tim

[/quote]
They seem really expensive compared to brass. I was wondering though tbabb if you noticed a big difference between the brass and Cerapucs footer?

Is it me or does it seem that the TVC will only really sound good if you invest in additional (expensive) isolation equipment?

I don't mind doing that but I would like to do it as cheaply as possible. Otherwise it negates the rather cheap price of the TVC. I think I'll start out by brass footers and the good 'ol kitchen chopping boards.

- jaspal.

[/quote]

gooberdude · « **Reply #685 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 03:55 pm »

Yeah...sorry for starting all this! i can't help but report what my ears tell me though. aa

i'd suggest to users who want to take the plunge but not spend too much $ to see if this stuff works, try a set of the pointed brass footers, a set of Isoblocks, and use or borrow a butcher block for the experiments. If it works out like i and others have described, save up for a real tonewood platform and the pointed top weight, and you're done. If not, you're out $10 in return shipping.

I think the Cerapucs would be great too, though i have not used them - the one downfall of the pointed footers is its not a completely stable platform...the TVC chassis rests on fine points. this is only an issue when swapping cables though. the Cerapucs have flat surfaces on top & bottom, and looks to be a good design...

I've seen pics of Tbabbs insane set-up, he knows his stuff. Under his VPI Super Scoutmaster rests the huge 3" pointed MS footers and an innovative double layer Isoblock & 3" thick Timbernation suspended platform creation...he's been toying with vibration draining schemes much longer than i have.

JLM, i'm starting to think that the rack & floor materials do not have much to do with the sonic performance of footers & draining schemes IF the tonewood plat is suspended with Isoblocks. They are essentially like an air bladder & isolate gear - therefore negating any bad effects from a suspended wood floor, or concrete or a cheap rack or whatever. this is just my opinion though....i live in a condo with poured concrete floors, so i've not experimented in an environment with bouncy wood subfloors.

matt

rollo · « **Reply #686 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 04:23 pm »

Quote from: jaspal kallar on 5 Jan 2007, 10:53 am

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 5 Jan 2007, 09:00 am
Quote from: tbabb on 5 Jan 2007, 02:21 am
That's really good info to know! I already have some brass footers, Cerapucs and 3" thick Maple platform ready and waiting for my TVC to arrive. So I guess with this new info, I'll just keep my TVC with the single run for now.

From my experience there is not one component in my system that has not benefited from better footers and proper vibration grounding.

For what it's worth, for components, I found Finite Elemente Cerapucs were superior in imaging and micro-detail than the brass footers. Brass adds a bit of color, but for some that's a good thing.

Tim

[quote a

So where do I get this "Finite Elemente Cerapucs" stuff?

Regards,
[Ray]
They seem really expensive compared to brass. I was wondering though tbabb if you noticed a big difference between the brass and Cerapucs footer?

Is it me or does it seem that the TVC will only really sound good if you invest in additional (expensive) isolation equipment?

I don't mind doing that but I would like to do it as cheaply as possible. Otherwise it negates the rather cheap price of the TVC. I think I'll start out by brass footers and the good 'ol kitchen chopping boards.

- jaspal.

Jaspal,
The Sound Fusion footers are $10 eachand the Hyperion magnatic footers are either $45 or $65 not sure.They are both very effective.As Gooberdude says the Mapleshade Isoblocks are extremely effective in isolating the wood plinth.I've found SPRUCE coated in violin varnish to be inexpensive and also very effective.[5/4 TH. clear spruce,make approx. 6" longer and wider than unit to be supported.
Should be plenty of spruce in your neck of the woods
Cheers rollo

tbabb · « **Reply #687 on:** 5 Jan 2007, 06:05 pm »

The journey in ultimate sound really never ends. Watch this video and you will get a idea what some people are willing to spend to achive their goal. One man obviously feels the rack and vibration scheme he put together is credited with 50% of the quality of he sound. Very elaborate setups. I love the expression of some of these guys wifes faces when the men confess how much they have spent on audio. Priceless.

Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

GHM · « **Reply #688 on:** 7 Jan 2007, 03:27 pm »

Yesterday... a friend and I took the Reference Promitheus on a little road trip up to the ATL. We hooked up with a very nice AC member and his audiophile friend and did some listening . Basically we spent all day listening in two different systems. One system used VMPS speakers, the other Taylo Reference monitors. associated gear was a Pacific Valve Dac 62, Shangling CD-100, Badda CD players modded and unmodded, Shangling SP-80 tubed monoblocks and a Marsh amplifier. Even the Paradisea Dac got some play time in.

All in all both audiophiles were very impressed with the little Promi! We all agreed the Promi brought out more music than using the Shanling CD-100 direct into the mono amplifiers. This goes to show just how important a preamp can be in the proper setup! The AC member's friend decided within the first two hours that he wanted one of the Metal Reference Promi's. Nick I hope you've perfected the metal version. He wants a unit that matches his Shangling tube monos..meaning another aircraft aluminum version!

All in all it was a very fun day! I hope to do this again very soon!

Nick ..would it be possible to add a gain switch for owners that may need it?

Thanks

analogmart · « **Reply #689 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 05:02 am »

Hi GHM,
That's the nice system.
one "Made in USA"
two "Made in China"
one "Made in Thailand"
and the last one "Made in Malaysia"

a true global system.

GHM · « **Reply #690 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: analogmart on 8 Jan 2007, 05:02 am

Hi GHM,
That's the nice system.
one "Made in USA"
two "Made in China"
one "Made in Thailand"
and the last one "Made in Malaysia"
a true global system.

Yup I try to spread it around! Actually my little system has a few more countries.

You left off a few

2 made in "Canada"
1 made in "Australia"

Yup..gotta mix it up!

Randy · « **Reply #691 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 04:48 pm »

This place looks like it has nice wood platforms and racks with reasonable prices.

http://www.timbernation.com/index.cfm

tbabb · « **Reply #692 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 04:57 pm »

Chris makes great products. His prices are fair and his workmanship is top notch. His packaging is also great. I have many platforms made from Timbernation.

Tim

Quote from: Randy on 8 Jan 2007, 04:48 pm

This place looks like it has nice wood platforms and racks with reasonable prices.

http://www.timbernation.com/index.cfm

Early B. · « **Reply #693 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 05:19 pm »

Yep. Timbernation does great work. I've used his products in the past and happen to have a platform on order right now for the Promitheus once it arrives.

anubisgrau · « **Reply #694 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 06:08 pm »

why experimenting? isn't it better to order a dedicated platform from nick?

jaspal kallar · « **Reply #695 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 06:16 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 8 Jan 2007, 06:08 pm

why experimenting? isn't it better to order a dedicated platform from nick?

Does he sell them? I didn't see any on his website?

- jaspal

rollo · « **Reply #696 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 07:07 pm »

Hey men,
Nichcolas informed me he will be offering the wood plinth shortly as he is fine tuning the finish.
had an interesting experience the other day,bought some spruce kitchen cab. knobs and applied varnish when dried put under TVC with flat side to TVC and of course round side on maple plinth.
Wasn't prepared for the result,it added some needed body as well as a better sound overall.Cost me $5 and will stay this way for a while.
Update after 550 HRS it improved slightly overall and i'm returning to my rating of 9 out of 10.The unit is extremely neutral with a slightly cool character with exceptional information retrival and detail.The gestahlt factor improved dramatically from before but still not all the way compared to the Loesch & Wiesner active.
Against the Bent flex kit basically two different presentations Bent= organic Promitheus=cool & precise.Came down to PERSONAL choice of presentation.Overall we preferred the Bent.It was real close.Bent Flex kit with custom Tiger Maple Enclosure and Shallco vol. controls approx. $1500 vs $530 for Promitheus,Oh almost forgot Bent has copper internal wiring.When I change wiring in Promitheus to copper I believe the gap will narrow.They both have thier advantages and will suit your individual system needs.
The biggest supprise came when I switched output tubes in the Lector CDP to Telefunken 12AT7 from Chelmar[Stock tube]'The promitheus fell right into place and picked up some gestahlt along the way.Just goes to show how neutral this is.
Would love to see Promitheus offered in two versions copper or silver versions.Secondly I would like the output wires to positive be wired with no buss at the RCA's instead use separate wires one for each.I suggested to Nichcolas to try using the trannie wire in lieu of the silver,makes sense to me.Havn't received an answer to date .Let you know what happens
rollo

gooberdude · « **Reply #697 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 07:10 pm »

I also recomend Timbernation platforms.....i have 2 right now (one is an amp stand), and have ordered a 3rd for the TVC that's 12" x 15" x 3" thick and cost $110. Currently I have a 13" x 18" x 2" thick plat under the TVC, but that board is too big (and belongs under my TT). So, i ordered a platform that's a little larger in overall volume of wood, but that has a smaller footprint. Chris w/TN thought the 3" boards sounded better... i'll post a comparison once i receive the new board.

To date i've only listenend to 13" x 18" x 2" maple plats from timbernation & a 12" x 15" x 2" plat from Mapleshade. These sounded wildly difft from one another, if you can believe it.

In terms of size & volume of wood, I wasn't comparing apples to apples anyway...but the MS plat simply did not have any deep bass. After reading the MS catalog, it sounds like you'd have to buy the 4" thick boards to get bass performance.

Hey Nick, how is your TVC platform design coming along???

rollo · « **Reply #698 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 07:46 pm »

Gooberdude,
Been a maple man a while,but SPRUCE changed my mind over maple,its cheap an effective especially with varnish applied.Not my idea got it from MOTHER OF TONE site.Makes alot of sense to me Home Depot here I come.Oh and try just putting TVC on wood with NO cones feet etc.Maybe a slight loss in clarity but more weight this is nuts but it makes a differnce try it and let us know
rollo

gooberdude · « **Reply #699 on:** 8 Jan 2007, 08:21 pm »

that's awesome! there are many difft varieties of tonewood out there and there's gotta be a way to try them without breaking the bank, ya know?

The mapleshade catalog lists about a dozen types that they tested, and just cuz he thought maple was the best doesn't mean everyone else would. geetars & drums are made out of many difft types of tonewoods....

the plats are the tube rolling for this preamp, in my unedumacated opinion....