Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

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ebag4

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #700 on: 9 Jan 2007, 03:08 pm »
GD, are you using shorting plug for your unused inputs or are you using the covers from Cardas that don't short like the units Welborne Labs sells?

Thanks,
Ed

gooberdude

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #701 on: 9 Jan 2007, 03:29 pm »
Hey Ed,

i use shorting plugs on unused rca inputs on this TVC.    A while back i ordered a bunch from an electrical supplier for about $1 each.   these things are kinda hard to find though...i Google searched for them a few nights ago & couldn't find the site I bought from.   

Early on in this tread, like page 5 or so, users discuss the plugs and where to buy them...

i've never tried Cardas caps - but the extra set of outputs on my TVC are wrapped in alum foil.
no idea if that does anything though!!  just peace of mind.

i think you want shorting plugs for the inputs and those non-shorting caps on unused outputs - someone please correct me if i'm wrong.   nothing at all may be needed on the outputs though...


Is anyone using a Belles 150A Hot Rod with the TVC?   


I've received a few e-mails from Nick lately, sounds like his internet connection is getting better...

ebag4

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #702 on: 9 Jan 2007, 03:31 pm »
Thanks for the info GD, it is appreciated.

Best,
Ed

rollo

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #703 on: 9 Jan 2007, 04:15 pm »
Ed,
   you can make your own with any RCA.Just solder the positive and negative together with a wire or bend the neg. leg to meet the pos. and solder.If I can solder you can to,no big deal.
     Gooberdude the unused outputs do not need caps.If you have multiple outs use one for a sub if you have.Run speakers full range and adjust sub crossover about 5 to 10 DB lower than the -3DB point of your main speakers.If you don't do this already you may be quite supprised.
    rollo

ebag4

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #704 on: 9 Jan 2007, 04:40 pm »
Thanks Rollo, I was already digging through my stash of old RCA cables.  Found an old video cable, cut off the ends, tied the leads together and viola!  No more bleed through when on a unused input, just silence.

Thanks,
Ed

smccull

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #705 on: 9 Jan 2007, 05:18 pm »
              Nichcolas informed me he will be offering the wood plinth shortly as he is fine tuning the finish.
       had an interesting experience the other day,


Rollo,

It sounds like you are having interaction with Nicholas, but I can't get a response from him on several emails. It worries me. Do you think I've offended him in some way, or is he just that busy? He's had my order (and money) since mid November and I'm starting to get worried, especially when he responds to other people but not me.

Your perspective is appreciated.


Gaara

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #706 on: 9 Jan 2007, 05:53 pm »
smccull,

I know Nic's spam blocker is very stringent, and may be pickup up your emails by accident.  If he hasn't responded to numerous emails try sending him a pm through the forum.

As for shorting plugs I got my Calrads at Wallco.  Very cheap at less then a buck a piece, much cheaper then the cardas rca caps.

Jared

smccull

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #707 on: 9 Jan 2007, 05:59 pm »
Thanks Gaara, I'll try that.


gooberdude

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #708 on: 9 Jan 2007, 06:50 pm »
Thanks jared, that's where I ordered mine too.

They have a minimum order amount...i had to prder 10 pairs I think.


rollo

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #709 on: 9 Jan 2007, 08:36 pm »
Smccull,
             Can't speak for Nichcolas,hang in thier he is honest not to worry.However Nov is a long time ago and can share your pain.I will email him, maybe its an internet thing because of the major storm
rollo

audioFreaK

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #710 on: 11 Jan 2007, 12:05 am »
Hi all,

Well, having been astonished by our experiences listening to latest development on the TVC, i thought it would be nice to share our reviews with the forumers here in audiocircle.

My first impression of this NEW TVC is there are remarkably improvements, it tends to have more DEPTHS, SOUL to the mids, & bass EXTENSION.

When the drum rolls, the depth added to the bass delivers pretty good in the room. Large acoustic instruments like pianos, cellos and basses has body and emphasis the fine detail. Voices are remarkably improved.

This is unquestionably the best version made by Nic from Promitheusaudio which i've heard for myself.

Before the audition ends i secretly asked him 'what was the tricked' ? He whispered "This is the upgraded version of TVC which internally there are Double Wire of Silver are used" which will be shipped out soon.

Over here, i would like to thank Nic for invited us over and convincing me that the Ebony Knob does makes improvement especially the resolution of the music. It's  a magic miracle what a knob can do.

For those who has yet to order, i personally recommended the Double Wire of Silver version as i am sending mine over by hand to Nic for upgrades.

« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2007, 12:25 am by audioFreaK »

PromitheusAudio

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #711 on: 11 Jan 2007, 12:49 am »
GUys (very long thread)
On rollo omission findings, i decided on how to explore for more a musical presentation. One of the ways i know how was to was to double up on the silver runs for the Signal and Ground

BUT to be sure what i did was right, i invited a couple of friends over include a new audiocircle member(audio freak). AUdio freak has a dual mono volume control tvc

TO be sure on what we heard was right we did A-B-A. Both TVC were exactly the same with the same knob type, volume setting and both were dual mono version. Also the position of rca cable for the input and output was the same

We tested with all genre of music so to tell the real character of the tvc with single strand silver versus the dual strand silver tvc.

The first genre. Shakti by John Mclaughlin. Acoutics guitar, tabla and a very dynamic piece
a) dual strand had a really serious edge, from the opening of people claping hands we could feel the difference. When the acoutics guitar was played we could feel the guitar box in a full way. I am very a touch to guitar both electric and acoutics as our work as trannie designer for Ceriatone amps was us to be really close with sonic reproduction of guitar. Single strand shown the lack of body and just the sound of the guitar strings pluck without the box resonance. So to with the tabla. Bass extension was very evidently more here than the single strand. However the single strand edge out in highs extension and is slightly more speed. But otherwise dual strand won hands down

Second genre. Tracy Chapman . Talking about a revolution
a) When Tracy sang you could feel the depth of her voice the moment she opens a mouth. Body of the vocals was very real like. The dual strands was very fluid and organic sounding.
Because of the wholesome vocals, some felt the presence and imaging was much better than the single strand. Again note that the highs extension was less but did not bother the listening group. One of the comments of night was when tracy chapmans strum the guitar. THe dual strand made it sound like a really highend gutiar while the single strand made it sound like an el-cheapo guitar

Same genre Frank Sinatra with Antonio Carlos Jobim. Girl from Ipanema
A) Again same things we felt as above with the female focal. Some noted that the music had more foot tapping to the sound as it was really fluid with this. In this particular album there is not much of highs so not much mention about lost of highs

Genre Rock. Dire Straits , First Album Dire Straits
A) The drums had more complete sound with the double strand. COmplete in the sense when you hit the drums it should be the transient and slam of the whack with the reverb of the internals of the drum and then the decay. WIth the single strand very evidently the slam was better but there was no reverb or body or decay after that. More like a single note. Some felt the slam was good and i felt it overpowering just slam in in the face. Electric guitar had more body to the sound but less zing with the double strand. Speed is slightly slower but still fine with the dual strand. Conclusion on rock shows that the single strand is build for speed, slam and dynamics. While the dual strand showd the body and music of the album.

Genre Classical
A) Classical is a very important test as it would show our the unit would perform in a total different requirement then say vocal or rock. Here the dual strand lost hand down to the single strand. The single strand had more air, and it floated between notes played. The music was really more enjoyable with the single strand. When the timpanis played and strike and transients was really good. Dual strand sounded sluggish and slow and not a good performer versus the single strand here.

Genre Jazz, Miles Davis kind of blue
A) The dual strand benefits really show here. THe ease of performance, musicallity really favored the dual strand.

COnclusion
Dual strand versus single strand. Is like a totally different preamp all together. IT would be a big jump backwards for some and a big jump forward for some.
If you like vocals,acoutics stuff and jazz dual strand is a better go for you. You get a lot more body, musicality and presence here.
If you like slam, orchestra, single strand is the way to go. The air, high extension, shimmer and sparkle of the single strand is way better.
Rock genre depends on individual on which part he favours more.

So in conclusion, this test really shows on how much the tvc will tilt heavily towards and genre of music but doubling up on the cable.

We would be offering the double cable option for those who want them for an extra.

One interesting finding was when i install the ebony knob and A-B-A it.

The ebony knob when fitted has more inner details, quieter,resolution improves,high extension and bass extension and more body. But this improvements are not as like the double or single improvement day and night but still a good improvement and can be easily heard on the first note. Of course nobody believe when i said the knob was better until the first note was played. So the ebony knob really helps to improve the sound with no negative parts and makes the unit look nicer.

Let me know what you guys think.


tbabb

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #712 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:03 am »
Well, I think I would want both or to be able to swtich between the two setups.  Is there no way to have the 2nd strand there, and connect it only when you want it?


Tim

guest1632

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #713 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:39 am »
GUys (very long thread)
On rollo omission findings, i decided on how to explore for more a musical presentation. One of the ways i know how was to was to double up on the silver runs for the Signal and Ground

BUT to be sure what i did was right, i invited a couple of friends over include a new audiocircle member(audio freak). AUdio freak has a dual mono volume control tvc

TO be sure on what we heard was right we did A-B-A. Both TVC were exactly the same with the same knob type, volume setting and both were dual mono version. Also the position of rca cable for the input and output was the same

We tested with all genre of music so to tell the real character of the tvc with single strand silver versus the dual strand silver tvc.

The first genre. Shakti by John Mclaughlin. Acoutics guitar, tabla and a very dynamic piece
a) dual strand had a really serious edge, from the opening of people claping hands we could feel the difference. When the acoutics guitar was played we could feel the guitar box in a full way. I am very a touch to guitar both electric and acoutics as our work as trannie designer for Ceriatone amps was us to be really close with sonic reproduction of guitar. Single strand shown the lack of body and just the sound of the guitar strings pluck without the box resonance. So to with the tabla. Bass extension was very evidently more here than the single strand. However the single strand edge out in highs extension and is slightly more speed. But otherwise dual strand won hands down

Second genre. Tracy Chapman . Talking about a revolution
a) When Tracy sang you could feel the depth of her voice the moment she opens a mouth. Body of the vocals was very real like. The dual strands was very fluid and organic sounding.
Because of the wholesome vocals, some felt the presence and imaging was much better than the single strand. Again note that the highs extension was less but did not bother the listening group. One of the comments of night was when tracy chapmans strum the guitar. THe dual strand made it sound like a really highend gutiar while the single strand made it sound like an el-cheapo guitar

Same genre Frank Sinatra with Antonio Carlos Jobim. Girl from Ipanema
A) Again same things we felt as above with the female focal. Some noted that the music had more foot tapping to the sound as it was really fluid with this. In this particular album there is not much of highs so not much mention about lost of highs

Genre Rock. Dire Straits , First Album Dire Straits
A) The drums had more complete sound with the double strand. COmplete in the sense when you hit the drums it should be the transient and slam of the whack with the reverb of the internals of the drum and then the decay. WIth the single strand very evidently the slam was better but there was no reverb or body or decay after that. More like a single note. Some felt the slam was good and i felt it overpowering just slam in in the face. Electric guitar had more body to the sound but less zing with the double strand. Speed is slightly slower but still fine with the dual strand. Conclusion on rock shows that the single strand is build for speed, slam and dynamics. While the dual strand showd the body and music of the album.

Genre Classical
A) Classical is a very important test as it would show our the unit would perform in a total different requirement then say vocal or rock. Here the dual strand lost hand down to the single strand. The single strand had more air, and it floated between notes played. The music was really more enjoyable with the single strand. When the timpanis played and strike and transients was really good. Dual strand sounded sluggish and slow and not a good performer versus the single strand here.

Genre Jazz, Miles Davis kind of blue
A) The dual strand benefits really show here. THe ease of performance, musicallity really favored the dual strand.

COnclusion
Dual strand versus single strand. Is like a totally different preamp all together. IT would be a big jump backwards for some and a big jump forward for some.
If you like vocals,acoutics stuff and jazz dual strand is a better go for you. You get a lot more body, musicality and presence here.
If you like slam, orchestra, single strand is the way to go. The air, high extension, shimmer and sparkle of the single strand is way better.
Rock genre depends on individual on which part he favours more.

So in conclusion, this test really shows on how much the tvc will tilt heavily towards and genre of music but doubling up on the cable.

We would be offering the double cable option for those who want them for an extra.

One interesting finding was when i install the ebony knob and A-B-A it.

The ebony knob when fitted has more inner details, quieter,resolution improves,high extension and bass extension and more body. But this improvements are not as like the double or single improvement day and night but still a good improvement and can be easily heard on the first note. Of course nobody believe when i said the knob was better until the first note was played. So the ebony knob really helps to improve the sound with no negative parts and makes the unit look nicer.

Let me know what you guys think.



Hi Nicholas,

Before you cast this in stone, looks like this needs to be investigated a little further. If I have understood this wiring process, you are probably using 23 gauge wire. I would suggest to go up a notch to 22 gauge and then see what happens with the single strand. Don't think your experimenting is quite done.

Regards,
Ray

Early B.

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #714 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:47 am »
Nic --

What kind of speakers, amp, and speaker cables were you using for the A-B-A test.

rollo

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #715 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:48 am »
Nicholas,
 A very thorough test and well worth it.Offering wiring options benefits us all.What impresses me the most is that you posted the results and configurations of TVC's and shared with the GENERAL PUBLIC your findings.
    The double run sounds like it is for me,however I still would like to try copper,so if you like give it a try[trannie wire] you may like it.
      By the way the sound after 550HRs has improved slightly from 450HRs.I was not expecting this as I could live with it before even with my MINOR quibbles.Now with 550HRs and some tube rolling with the CDP [Mullard 12AT7,instead of Telefunken and stock Chlemer] were talking.If you can't tweak it its not high end[Harry Pearson].
       So tweak away BUCKAROOS and then sit down with this TVC and ENJOY THE MUSIC cause you will
    rollo

rollo

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #716 on: 11 Jan 2007, 01:51 am »
Nicholas,
 A very thorough test and well worth it.Offering wiring options benefits us all.What impresses me the most is that you posted the results and configurations of TVC's and shared with the GENERAL PUBLIC your findings.
    The double run sounds like it is for me,however I still would like to try copper,so if you like give it a try[trannie wire] you may like it.
      By the way the sound after 550HRs has improved slightly from 450HRs.I was not expecting this as I could live with it before even with my MINOR quibbles.Now with 550HRs and some tube rolling with the CDP [Mullard 12AT7,instead of Telefunken and stock Chlemer] were talking.If you can't tweak it its not high end[Harry Pearson].
       So tweak away BUCKAROOS and then sit down with this TVC and ENJOY THE MUSIC cause you will
    rollo
PS looks like the test will continue with different gauge wire and material

jaspal kallar

Received mine today - some initial thoughts
« Reply #717 on: 11 Jan 2007, 10:07 pm »
Hello all,

Well it arrived today - 2 days DHL to Sweden - wow that's quick! Excellent packaging. Many thanks Nick! Somehow I expected it to be bigger not that I'm dissappointed. I personally think the finish (it not being a reference model) is really very nice - I know some others disagree.

I have the balanced version. Connected my dac (singled ended) to the TVC and from the TVC (balanced out) to my mono amps. Played some music and it worked. But why wouldn't it I hear you ask yourself? Well Nick informed me that the balanced version does not do singled ended in to balanced out. So I'm wondering how it works. Hopefully Nick can clear that up? I'm not that clued up with this kind of stuff. This way at least I get to re-use my balanced cable although I wish had ordered the balanced silver IC's instead of the single ended IC.

On to the music. I sat down played a track from a live Paul Weller CD. Umm - not that impressed. I thought it sounded like my last one but nothing more. Please take into consideration that I've not listened to my system for over 2 months. Played a few tracks from another CD - same opinion. Ok I thought the footers. Put them under and got quite an improvement all round. No going back there. So they are important, if you haven't sussed that out already. For there onwards things just got better and surpassed easily my former pre.

In particular I noticed alot more detail and channel separation, background silence (quiteness) - never heard it before and what I can only describe as 'tuneful' low bass although it seemed overbearing on certain dance/pop cd's.on. I noticed great detail and control with good recorded rock. For the first time I could get an insight into how the midrange differed even between tracks on the same cd - it's though it was restricted for some and out in the open for others. Not quite sure what to make of this. I've ordered some female vocal cd's, Eva Cassidy and Norah Jones. I'm not into Opera, Jazz, Classical all that much so I haven't tried them out.

In general I found that was pop and rock easier to listen to now with this TVC. Btw acoustic tracks sounded fanstatic, again this amazing silence between the notes. I suppose all in all the TVC was very revealing of good or bad recordings and somehow kept everything balanced so that you began to enjoy the music (if recorded good).

I must admit I'm not that convinced that burn-in actually occurs. I've never really heard it before - we shall see. I've connected the digital box to the TVC and switched off the amps and set the volume 2 clicks back from maximum.  I will try to resist not to play until after 100 hrs. (famous last words!)

OK two minor gripes. Firstly, when I change to different inputs I get hum. I have 3 inputs in total. The two singled ended are used (dac and digital box). The third (unused) is the balanced input. I've not seen any balanced shorting plugs. I might connect my mini disc to it via some rca to XLR adapter and see if that works but really it's not a problem. I don't seem to get any hum whilst playing music it seems. Secondly I usually have low lighting in the room and hence it can be a little difficult to spot the volume setting.

All in all considering the price and that I've at best got a mid-fi system the TVC is rather good but I will reserve proper judgement until after 100hrs.

 - jaspal.







cutcopypaste

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Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #718 on: 11 Jan 2007, 10:31 pm »
Hey jaspal, the TVC will dispell any doubt you have over burning in. All TVC's are notorious for long burn in times; my experience with the Promitheus has shown just that, it has changed several times over the last couple of months, (all for he better). There are also numerous posts on TVC's taking hundreds of hours to settle down.

Also have you tried Nicholas's Silver IC's? I recieved some a couple of days ago......wasn't expecting much, boy was I wrong, on initial listening these are very good cables, big sound stage, detail and precise imaging.

Anyway just wanted to post my thoughts, have fun.

jaspal kallar

Re: Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?
« Reply #719 on: 11 Jan 2007, 11:07 pm »
Hey jaspal, the TVC will dispell any doubt you have over burning in. All TVC's are notorious for long burn in times; my experience with the Promitheus has shown just that, it has changed several times over the last couple of months, (all for he better). There are also numerous posts on TVC's taking hundreds of hours to settle down.

Also have you tried Nicholas's Silver IC's? I recieved some a couple of days ago......wasn't expecting much, boy was I wrong, on initial listening these are very good cables, big sound stage, detail and precise imaging.

Anyway just wanted to post my thoughts, have fun.

cutcopypaste: your correct TVC's are different "kettle of fish". It's just previously with hifi compontes I've never really gone back after a while and noticed a big difference to when the component was first inserted and how it sounded . I'm just going on previous experience.

How are burning - by listening or by connecting to swiched off amps (i.e some form of resistance?

I must confess, I used briefly, Nicks, silver IC's between TVC and amp as opposed to the XLR balanced copper between TVC and amp. Well I noticed so called traits of silver- detail and precise imaging but I can't really say I heard a bigger soundstage. I had to turn the volume up much more to hear the midrange though. I don't know what this meant. Just what I noticed. When I put the XLR balanced back I noticed that the midrange was more pronouced and forward.

I decided to leave it at that since I want to keep things constant, otherwise it's hard to judge improvements. Of course later on. I will try the IC's out but I may swap them for a bit more cash with XLR version or try them between dac and TVC. FWIW, Nicks Silver is between the digital box  (the source used for constant burn-in) and the TVC, so it's getting at least used (burned-in) for the time being.

  - jaspal.