[jenhwa]

you can try one item at time until you get the sound you want.
it depends on how well your rack can absorb vibrations.
if it still does not work, and you still want to damp the chassis
it is really not that hard, 15min job tops, should be faster for you.
here's how i did mine

http://www.flickr.com/gp/13888462@N05/CU6869

Also, is it really a noticable improvement to pop open the cover and dampen the underside of this top plate? I definitely do not want to unbolt the xfrmrs or anything like that. I doubt I will even open it up. I have the dual brass plate version of Ref4.

I was thinking about using the cones on a block of oak or something similiar, but that piece of wood is supported by Vibrapods, and maybe some random brass weights for the top....

brass weights (1-2 pounds worth) -> TVC -> Tiptoes -> Wood -> Vibrapod -> main glass shelf.
Is this a bad idea?
Thanks

 

 

[Early B.]

My TVC also sits on glass. I have brass footers and myrtle wood blocks underneath the unit. Results must be system dependent. Because I haven't heard a bit of difference using footers. It sure looks cool though.

GHM --

It's good to hear from you.

Two hundred twenty-one pages! It's been a little over a year since you created this madness.

[GHM]

My TVC also sits on glass. I have brass footers and myrtle wood blocks underneath the unit. Results must be system dependent. Because I haven't heard a bit of difference using footers. It sure looks cool though.

GHM --

It's good to hear from you.

Two hundred twenty-one pages! It's been a little over a year since you created this madness.

Hey B...glad to see you around my friend! I need to come up to the ATL and see what you've been experimenting with. aa

[Early B.]

Hey B...glad to see you around my friend! I need to come up to the ATL and see what you've been experimenting with. aa

You must have audio ESP. I just picked up a VMPS subwoofer today. Got an Emotiva amp arriving tomorrow. Been messing with cables, too. Got some new music as well. The system sounds spectacular!

Let's talk soon. 

[SoundQuest]

I also did not want to tinker with the internals.  I use Sound Quest ISOL Pads under my Apollo and power supply.  My shelves are cut from 20mm acrylic.   

[fvale]

Hello everybody! I'm a happy owner of two TVC transformers from Promitheus since a few months. I really like them! Can someone tell me about the sound of the new C-core version? I'd really like to upgrade!
Thank you

[goldlizsts]

Hi goldlizsts,

The only difference in my instructions are the 6x2 strips that you would put down on the top and bottom of the TVC. Because you only have one transformer in each box, don't know if the 6x2 strip would apply here.

As far as putting BHP on each Transformer, that would still apply.................

Ray Bronk

Hi Ray,

I'm sorry, I didn't acknowledge and thank you way back.  Belatedly, much thanks.  I am still cooking my TVC, putting in 200+ hrs by this weekend, and try to hear it again.  So, I haven't opened up my box to check and see how I will do it......  Also, I checked Speakercity today, I think the BHP they have in there is what I'd need?  Not the BHP5, just the "thinner" one?  The BHP5 I would say still fit, since the TVC box is more than 2" (about 3"?) in height.

Thanks.

[tanchiro58]

Hello everybody! I'm a happy owner of two TVC transformers from Promitheus since a few months. I really like them! Can someone tell me about the sound of the new C-core version? I'd really like to upgrade!
Thank you

We officially going to launch the c-core and signature line during the first week of November.

This is mainly because our cores are finally coming in during the end week of October

However in the mean time we have limited stocks of c-cores tvcs for sale, and can still sell them until our stocks are replenish

Contact us for more information on the c-cores

Cheers

Nicholas

According to Nick C-cores will be launched in November. I have ordered the Apollo Signature Preamp which is due by next month. I will let you know upon receiving my Apollo preamp.

[Cincy_bob]

Also, I checked Speakercity today, I think the BHP they have in there is what I'd need?  Not the BHP5, just the "thinner" one?  The BHP5 I would say still fit, since the TVC box is more than 2" (about 3"?) in height.

Goldliszts, you want the thin stuff.  One sheet will be enough to handle the entire TVC.

When I modified my dual-box TVC for the BHP dampening tweak, I found that the biggest improvement was the elimination of a tendency for treble frequencies to become strident.  Before the BHP mod, when playing certain classical CDs that tend toward treble brightness, I found that the undampened resonance in my TVC caused the treble brightness of string sections to become too much to bear.  I found myself turning the tweeter output down on my speakers by a couple of dB in order to bring the frequencies back into balance.  After the BHP mod, the frequency balance of the TVC is just right - on par with the high end active preamps I am used to using in my system.

You will probably also find that the BHP mod has the effect of making the sound a bit more polite and a bit less dynamic.  I think the sense of increased dynamics in the TVC pre-BHP-mod is, at least partially, an artifact of resonance and feedback.  I found that the sound - after the implementation of the mods - is more refined, well balanced across the frequency spectrum.  The sound of the TVC after the mods and after run-in (about 450 hours before my TVC was at its best) closely resembles the performance I am accustomed to with high end active preamps in my system.  (I am using the TVC in my reference system to burn it in and have a little fun while I am assembling the remainder of a second system that will feature the Promitheus TVC, SET 300B amps, and Living Voice Auditorium Avatar IBX-R2 speakers.)

[guest1632]

Just made a disappointing discovery yesterday. 

Lo and behold, yesterday where powering down the system, I noticed that the left volume knob and right volume knobs were switched, i.e turning up/down the left knob increased/lowered the volume of my right speaker and vice versa. 

An email to Nick followed thereafter and he was gracious enough to offer a swap. 

Well, I received the Apollo from Nick about 2 weeks back and was happily burning in the unit slowly.  I am very, very pleased with the Apollo and am looking forward to this giant killing pre-amp as a main stay in my system for years to come.  Now, I will have to work out with Nick on how to rectify this minor setback.
 

 Hi SoundQuest,

I might suggest a possible solution. Either switch out the two outputs from the Apollo, going to your amp. See if it is labeled on the Apollo. Now another possible solution, open up the Apollo, and if Nick had supplied the RCA's with the nut on the outside of each connector, you might try take the top row off first, and then carefully move the bottom row of outputs to the top and then take the former top row and move them to the bottom row. I'd probably do it. it's because I'm a brave soul, and if I felt confident I could do so, I would.

The reason I asked about the RCA nuts on the outside, is then you can just push them in to the unit, and out of the way of the other ones, while you are making the change.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ray

[guest1632]

Well, today I received the BHP that I had ordered from Speaker City last week, and, this evening, I had a go at the TVC modification that Ray Bronk so kindly descibed in this thread about a month ago.  And I am pleased to report that I did not incur any discernible damage to my TVC in the process!

The changes in the sound of the TVC brought about by the BHP damping mod are subtle but important.  The sound is now more natural, relaxed and composed.  By comparison, before the mod, the TVC could sound a bit "high strung" and a just a touch "ragged around the edges" in difficult peak passages.  I believe there is also now less of a tendency for the treble frequencies to become strident on recordings that tend toward brightness.

All in all a very successful tweak for a non-techie like me.   

Ray, thanks so much for your detailed instructions without which I would not have known where to start!

As a point of reference, I am currently at 200 hours of run-in and counting...

Hi Cincy_Bob,

Did you do the bottom too? I'm glad it helped. Forgot, which one did you get? Looks like I am not getting notifications so I am just now catching up on this thread. Sorry for the late reply.

Ray

[guest1632]

I wish I had the time to read all the threads here and distill the info about BEST vibe reduction tactics...so I am looking for some techniques from those of you have tackled this problem.

I'm constantly tweaking my gear. With the TVC, I've tried several tactics -- maple platform, brass cones, wood, rubber, weight on top, ebony knob, etc. So far none of them have made any difference at all. I tried BHP and it deadened the sound, so I ripped it out. My TVC sits on a glass shelf, too.
 

Hi EarlyBee,

Your glass shelves might just be helping you.

One thing I might suggest to the DIYers out there, is to get Greg Ball's SKPree There are 2 boards, one per channel. You explain to him that instead of the volume pot on each board, to put a little toggle inside on the board, for 0 DB and 6 DB. The boards are small enough to be able to be mounted successfully in the TVC. Route your power wires from each board out the back to a centertap say 30VA and I think it was about 25 to 30 volts, Centertapped. You would have to use one of the two outputs which would give you an almost instant comparison. Nick did order one, but have not tried it yet.

Ray

[guest1632]

Hi goldlizsts,

The only difference in my instructions are the 6x2 strips that you would put down on the top and bottom of the TVC. Because you only have one transformer in each box, don't know if the 6x2 strip would apply here.

As far as putting BHP on each Transformer, that would still apply.................

Ray Bronk

Hi Ray,

I'm sorry, I didn't acknowledge and thank you way back.  Belatedly, much thanks.  I am still cooking my TVC, putting in 200+ hrs by this weekend, and try to hear it again.  So, I haven't opened up my box to check and see how I will do it......  Also, I checked Speakercity today, I think the BHP they have in there is what I'd need?  Not the BHP5, just the "thinner" one?  The BHP5 I would say still fit, since the TVC box is more than 2" (about 3"?) in height.

Thanks.

 Hi Goldlizsts,

Yep, just use the thinner stuff. Let me save you from buying a whole bunch of it. Matter of fact, send me a 10 spot, and I'll cut you the pieces for the transformer. I don't have enough for the 2 6x2 pieces. If you are not gonna put one under the TVC transformers, just let me know. PM me and we can talk.

Oh, that's right, you have the dual box TVCS. won't need the 6x2 pieces anyway.

Ray

[guest1632]

Also, I checked Speakercity today, I think the BHP they have in there is what I'd need?  Not the BHP5, just the "thinner" one?  The BHP5 I would say still fit, since the TVC box is more than 2" (about 3"?) in height.

Goldliszts, you want the thin stuff.  One sheet will be enough to handle the entire TVC.

When I modified my dual-box TVC for the BHP dampening tweak, I found that the biggest improvement was the elimination of a tendency for treble frequencies to become strident.  Before the BHP mod, when playing certain classical CDs that tend toward treble brightness, I found that the undampened resonance in my TVC caused the treble brightness of string sections to become too much to bear.  I found myself turning the tweeter output down on my speakers by a couple of dB in order to bring the frequencies back into balance.  After the BHP mod, the frequency balance of the TVC is just right - on par with the high end active preamps I am used to using in my system.

You will probably also find that the BHP mod has the effect of making the sound a bit more polite and a bit less dynamic.  I think the sense of increased dynamics in the TVC pre-BHP-mod is, at least partially, an artifact of resonance and feedback.  I found that the sound - after the implementation of the mods - is more refined, well balanced across the frequency spectrum.  The sound of the TVC after the mods and after run-in (about 450 hours before my TVC was at its best) closely resembles the performance I am accustomed to with high end active preamps in my system.  (I am using the TVC in my reference system to burn it in and have a little fun while I am assembling the remainder of a second system that will feature the Promitheus TVC, SET 300B amps, and Living Voice Auditorium Avatar IBX-R2 speakers.)

Hi again,

Did you put any BHP under each trafo? a 2.5x1 will work nicely. What that seems to do is to add a bit of delicacy to offset that politeness. A bit more inner detail. I'm not sure I agree with the dynamics part of that. I am currently evaluateing some cables, and like the snap of a snare drum is definitely there. Now, if you put the piece under the transformers and make it 3x1, that will defintiely night and day change the character of the TVC. Don't know why. It adds some "tube bloom" which at first sounds really neat. But you also loose detail.

Ray

[SoundQuest]

Just made a disappointing discovery yesterday. 

Lo and behold, yesterday where powering down the system, I noticed that the left volume knob and right volume knobs were switched, i.e turning up/down the left knob increased/lowered the volume of my right speaker and vice versa. 

An email to Nick followed thereafter and he was gracious enough to offer a swap. 

Well, I received the Apollo from Nick about 2 weeks back and was happily burning in the unit slowly.  I am very, very pleased with the Apollo and am looking forward to this giant killing pre-amp as a main stay in my system for years to come.  Now, I will have to work out with Nick on how to rectify this minor setback.
 

 Hi SoundQuest,

I might suggest a possible solution. Either switch out the two outputs from the Apollo, going to your amp. See if it is labeled on the Apollo. Now another possible solution, open up the Apollo, and if Nick had supplied the RCA's with the nut on the outside of each connector, you might try take the top row off first, and then carefully move the bottom row of outputs to the top and then take the former top row and move them to the bottom row. I'd probably do it. it's because I'm a brave soul, and if I felt confident I could do so, I would.

The reason I asked about the RCA nuts on the outside, is then you can just push them in to the unit, and out of the way of the other ones, while you are making the change.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ray

Ray, thanks for your advice. I am not a tinkerer myself and so would hesitate to open up the Apollo to take a peep.  Fortunately, Nick has agreed to do a swap and so now I am blissfully soaking in the music while waiting for the new unit to arrive. Wonderful preamp the Apollo is.  The music is crystal clear with a slight tinge of warmth. 

[guest1632]

Just made a disappointing discovery yesterday. 

Lo and behold, yesterday where powering down the system, I noticed that the left volume knob and right volume knobs were switched, i.e turning up/down the left knob increased/lowered the volume of my right speaker and vice versa. 

An email to Nick followed thereafter and he was gracious enough to offer a swap. 

Well, I received the Apollo from Nick about 2 weeks back and was happily burning in the unit slowly.  I am very, very pleased with the Apollo and am looking forward to this giant killing pre-amp as a main stay in my system for years to come.  Now, I will have to work out with Nick on how to rectify this minor setback.
 

Ray, thanks for your advice. I am not a tinkerer myself and so would hesitate to open up the Apollo to take a peep.  Fortunately, Nick has agreed to do a swap and so now I am blissfully soaking in the music while waiting for the new unit to arrive. Wonderful preamp the Apollo is.  The music is crystal clear with a slight tinge of warmth. 

Very good. It just means you'll have to spend some mula to send back the defective as it were, unit. Or is Nick paying for it to be sent back to him?

Ray

[Cincy_bob]

Hi Cincy_Bob,

Did you do the bottom too? I'm glad it helped. Forgot, which one did you get? Looks like I am not getting notifications so I am just now catching up on this thread. Sorry for the late reply.

Ray

Hi again,

Did you put any BHP under each trafo? a 2.5x1 will work nicely. What that seems to do is to add a bit of delicacy to offset that politeness. A bit more inner detail. I'm not sure I agree with the dynamics part of that. I am currently evaluateing some cables, and like the snap of a snare drum is definitely there. Now, if you put the piece under the transformers and make it 3x1, that will defintiely night and day change the character of the TVC. Don't know why. It adds some "tube bloom" which at first sounds really neat. But you also loose detail.

Ray

Ray -

I bought the Reference Dual-Box TVC with brass top and bottom plates and copper wiring.  I was brave enough to tackle the bottom of the transformer, so I went through with the full modification that you had recommended (i.e., four pieces of BHP per transformer).  Since I have the dual-box unit, I did not use any separate pieces of BHP on the inside of the brass top plate or bottom plate (except that the BHP adhered to the bottom of each transformer does come into contact with the bottom plate and, therefore, serves a dual purpose of dampening both the transformer and the bottom plate).

On the bottom of each transformer, I mounted a piece of BHP that was very close to - if not exactly the same - size that you had recommended.  You had recommended a 2.5 inch x 1 inch piece.  I know my length was exactly 2.5 inches, and the width was between 1 inch and 1.25 inches.  So it is possible my pieces were just a bit wider.

It is good to know that the unit is very sensitive to the size of the BHP on the bottom of the transformer.  At some point, I will probably take the TVCs apart again and measure the exact dimensions of the bottom BHP pieces.

Regarding my comment on dynamics, I did not mean to say that the dynamics of the component were compromised by the BHP mod in a way that was detrimental to the sound.  I think that the sound of the unit after the BHP mod is more balanced and refined.  Before the mods, there was a bit of a raw, unrefined character to the sound coupled with a tendency toward treble brightness.  While these were certainly traits that are not desirable, I think there was also a sense of extra punch and vitality to the music that came along as a by-product of the nasties.  When the BHP mod tempered the runaway treble frequencies and brought a sense of refinement to the sound, I noticed that the "punch and vitality" were tamed a bit as well.  I should note that I am running a very high resolution system, which lays bare any subtle changes in the sound.

Overall, I think the BHP mod is definitely the way to go, and the dynamics - after the mod and after the unit is fully burned in - are excellent (i.e., on par with my reference active line stage preamp).  So my comment on dynamics was really just an attempt to describe the sound before and after mods.  I get the feeling that the undampened resonance in the stock version of the TVC causes a bit of an exaggerated sense of punch and dynamics that comes along with a bit of an unrefined character and an exaggeration of treble brightness in recordings that tend in that direction.  I also get the impression that there is probably no way to retain the extra sense of "punch" while at the same time resolving the undesirable characteristics.  That's just a guess based on what I experienced with the mod and based the way the TVC sounds in my system at this point after about 500 hours of run-in.

I might, at some point, experiment with tweaking the size of the BHP mounted to the bottom of each transformer to see what sort of effect that has on the sound and whether that changes my perspective.

Thanks again for all your assistance, Ray!

 - Bob

[guest1632]

Hi Cincy_Bob,

Did you do the bottom too? I'm glad it helped. Forgot, which one did you get? Looks like I am not getting notifications so I am just now catching up on this thread. Sorry for the late reply.

Ray

Hi again,

Did you put any BHP under each trafo? a 2.5x1 will work nicely. What that seems to do is to add a bit of delicacy to offset that politeness. A bit more inner detail. I'm not sure I agree with the dynamics part of that. I am currently evaluateing some cables, and like the snap of a snare drum is definitely there. Now, if you put the piece under the transformers and make it 3x1, that will defintiely night and day change the character of the TVC. Don't know why. It adds some "tube bloom" which at first sounds really neat. But you also loose detail.

Ray

Ray -

I bought the Reference Dual-Box TVC with brass top and bottom plates and copper wiring.  I was brave enough to tackle the bottom of the transformer, so I went through with the full modification that you had recommended (i.e., four pieces of BHP per transformer).  Since I have the dual-box unit, I did not use any separate pieces of BHP on the inside of the brass top plate or bottom plate (except that the BHP adhered to the bottom of each transformer does come into contact with the bottom plate and, therefore, serves a dual purpose of dampening both the transformer and the bottom plate).

On the bottom of each transformer, I mounted a piece of BHP that was very close to - if not exactly the same - size that you had recommended.  You had recommended a 2.5 inch x 1 inch piece.  I know my length was exactly 2.5 inches, and the width was between 1 inch and 1.25 inches.  So it is possible my pieces were just a bit wider.

It is good to know that the unit is very sensitive to the size of the BHP on the bottom of the transformer.  At some point, I will probably take the TVCs apart again and measure the exact dimensions of the bottom BHP pieces.

Regarding my comment on dynamics, I did not mean to say that the dynamics of the component were compromised by the BHP mod in a way that was detrimental to the sound.  I think that the sound of the unit after the BHP mod is more balanced and refined.  Before the mods, there was a bit of a raw, unrefined character to the sound coupled with a tendency toward treble brightness.  While these were certainly traits that are not desirable, I think there was also a sense of extra punch and vitality to the music that came along as a by-product of the nasties.  When the BHP mod tempered the runaway treble frequencies and brought a sense of refinement to the sound, I noticed that the "punch and vitality" were tamed a bit as well.  I should note that I am running a very high resolution system, which lays bare any subtle changes in the sound.

Overall, I think the BHP mod is definitely the way to go, and the dynamics - after the mod and after the unit is fully burned in - are excellent (i.e., on par with my reference active line stage preamp).  So my comment on dynamics was really just an attempt to describe the sound before and after mods.  I get the feeling that the undampened resonance in the stock version of the TVC causes a bit of an exaggerated sense of punch and dynamics that comes along with a bit of an unrefined character and an exaggeration of treble brightness in recordings that tend in that direction.  I also get the impression that there is probably no way to retain the extra sense of "punch" while at the same time resolving the undesirable characteristics.  That's just a guess based on what I experienced with the mod and based the way the TVC sounds in my system at this point after about 500 hours of run-in.

I might, at some point, experiment with tweaking the size of the BHP mounted to the bottom of each transformer to see what sort of effect that has on the sound and whether that changes my perspective.

Thanks again for all your assistance, Ray!

 - Bob

Hi Bob,

cool! I'll tell ya, I was just a bit scared to tackle that underside of the trafos. It was lots of fun, removing that tape or whatever garb that was. If you wanted it to look even neater, except for the bottom piece, you probably could remove about a quarter inch from the other three. Don't think it will make that much difference at all.

Sometimes punch and supposed dynamics seem to be hand in hand. I think you have it all covered. The other thing to do now is to just go around and tighten everything up. Before you take off the knobs, you might want to mark them against the frame so it will be easy to reposition them when you put them back on. Making sure those rotors are tighten against the frame will surprise you.

Ray

[SoundQuest]

Just made a disappointing discovery yesterday. 

Lo and behold, yesterday where powering down the system, I noticed that the left volume knob and right volume knobs were switched, i.e turning up/down the left knob increased/lowered the volume of my right speaker and vice versa. 

An email to Nick followed thereafter and he was gracious enough to offer a swap. 

Well, I received the Apollo from Nick about 2 weeks back and was happily burning in the unit slowly.  I am very, very pleased with the Apollo and am looking forward to this giant killing pre-amp as a main stay in my system for years to come.  Now, I will have to work out with Nick on how to rectify this minor setback.
 

Ray, thanks for your advice. I am not a tinkerer myself and so would hesitate to open up the Apollo to take a peep.  Fortunately, Nick has agreed to do a swap and so now I am blissfully soaking in the music while waiting for the new unit to arrive. Wonderful preamp the Apollo is.  The music is crystal clear with a slight tinge of warmth. 

Very good. It just means you'll have to spend some mula to send back the defective as it were, unit. Or is Nick paying for it to be sent back to him?

Ray

We will be sharing the cost.  He sends me the new unit and I'll send back the defective one.

[guest1632]

Just made a disappointing discovery yesterday. 

Lo and behold, yesterday where powering down the system, I noticed that the left volume knob and right volume knobs were switched, i.e turning up/down the left knob increased/lowered the volume of my right speaker and vice versa. 

An email to Nick followed thereafter and he was gracious enough to offer a swap. 

Well, I received the Apollo from Nick about 2 weeks back and was happily burning in the unit slowly.  I am very, very pleased with the Apollo and am looking forward to this giant killing pre-amp as a main stay in my system for years to come.  Now, I will have to work out with Nick on how to rectify this minor setback.
 

Ray, thanks for your advice. I am not a tinkerer myself and so would hesitate to open up the Apollo to take a peep.  Fortunately, Nick has agreed to do a swap and so now I am blissfully soaking in the music while waiting for the new unit to arrive. Wonderful preamp the Apollo is.  The music is crystal clear with a slight tinge of warmth. 

Very good. It just means you'll have to spend some mula to send back the defective as it were, unit. Or is Nick paying for it to be sent back to him?

Ray

We will be sharing the cost.  He sends me the new unit and I'll send back the defective one.

Well, that works.

Ray