How do you burn-in amplifier without listening to it?

95bcwh · « **on:** 17 Sep 2006, 11:45 pm »

I'm sure some of you have experience doing this. I would like to run my new amp 24/7 without listening to it.
Here's what I read somewhere:" you may temporarily replace your loudspeakers with 8 Ohm ceramic power resistors of at least a 10-watt rating"

But I don't have any electronic background, can anyone show me how these resistors look like? Or point me to a website where I can buy them?

Thanks
barry

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 12:41 am »

I'd be interested to know this also. I bought a car sub from a pawn shop to burn-in my new amp... and man is that loud at 400 watts... even out of phase and buried under panels, blankets, and pillows it shakes the house. In phase it feels like someone's got a jackhammer under the house!

I'd love it if all I had to do was put a resistor across the leads... but a straight 8-ohm (or even 4-ohm) resistor just doesn't seem like it would be the same as a real speaker load. There's a lot going on between the speaker and the amp that the resistor doesn't do. Also, where does the energy go? Is it just absorbed in the resistor? How hot does it get?

-C

Bill Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 12:46 am »

Here is one of the resistors that I use. This is the 100 watt version . You can also use one of the Dale 20 or 50 watt aluminum bodied units depending on your amp's power rating. There is a link under the picture.
Nothing beats burning in a unit with a signal going through it.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=019-020

Carlman · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 12:54 am »

I got a pretty good deal on my 'burn-in' pawn sub but these little gems would be a good alternative to get rid of the noise.

Thanks, Bill!

-Carl

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 01:15 am »

Hi Carl,
I don't normally use resistors for burning in an amp. It usually goes into on of the systems for 12 hours. On the bench, it does go through initial testing and it's first 2 hours of burning with one of these resistors. I do have a few cheap 8" drivers that I will sometimes use if all the resistors are in use.
You mention the level of noise using your subs. Do you have any type of volume control hooked up or are you running full throttle?

95bcwh · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:01 am »

Thanks Bill, I will order a pair of these.. just wondering, what's the chance of this resistors got blown and created short-circuit on my amp? Is there anything i should be paying attention to when using these resistors? Sorry for this utterly stupid question..I just can't take the chance of blowing the amp..

barry

Quote from: Response Audio on 18 Sep 2006, 12:46 am

Here is one of the resistors that I use. This is the 100 watt version . You can also use one of the Dale 20 or 50 watt aluminum bodied units depending on your amp's power rating. There is a link under the picture.
Nothing beats burning in a unit with a signal going through it.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=019-020

Carlman · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:43 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 18 Sep 2006, 01:15 am

You mention the level of noise using your subs. Do you have any type of volume control hooked up or are you running full throttle?

I'm feeding the White Stripes, Speakerboxx, and Blackeyed Peas into a pair of 12" Pioneer subs at very high volume and the meters on the McIntosh 402 indicate they're outputting 300-400 watts. I'm using my preamp and amp as usual so I have a remote, access to music and everything else. I'm just doing a final ultra-mega-break-in of the amp after having it play at normal volumes for a week or so as part of a recommendation from a friend I trust.

So, we'll see how it goes. I only have a couple of workdays left. I can crank it while at work and turn it down when I'm home this week and it'll be done.

-C

BTW, I'm also breaking in new power cables so it should sound pretty good by the end of the week... until the next piece comes along...

avahifi · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 01:37 pm »

I really wonder if you guys "burn in" your toaster, coffee pot, dishwasher, garbage disposal, TV set, and computer before using them. Geeze.

A properly designed audio amplifier needs no "burn in" at all. This is simply audiophlake nonsense.

All you are doing is wasting energy and if doing it at very high power levels, stress heating all the components, not rationally recommended.

Get real and listen to the music.

Frank Van Alstine

95bcwh · « **Reply #8 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:04 pm »

Frank, I'm new to this hobby so I only follow what people tells me.. I have no idea what is right or wrong. From my experience with Bryston 4-SST amp that I bought brand new, I didn't notice any noticeable change from burning in..so your point could well be correct.... but then 99% of the people out there talks about burning in amplifiers, especially tube amp.

barry

Quote from: avahifi on 18 Sep 2006, 01:37 pm

I really wonder if you guys "burn in" your toaster, coffee pot, dishwasher, garbage disposal, TV set, and computer before using them. Geeze.

A properly designed audio amplifier needs no "burn in" at all. This is simply audiophlake nonsense.

All you are doing is wasting energy and if doing it at very high power levels, stress heating all the components, not rationally recommended.

Get real and listen to the music.

Frank Van Alstine

Brad · « **Reply #9 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:17 pm »

Barry - with all of the treatment you have in your room, I'm surprised you can hear the system playing from anywhere else in the house.

Just let it warm up for 5-10 mins before listening.......
A few listening sessions (wow - enjoy the music!) and you'll be good to go.

Carlman · « **Reply #10 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:20 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 18 Sep 2006, 01:37 pm

I really wonder if you guys "burn in" your toaster, coffee pot, dishwasher, garbage disposal, TV set, and computer before using them. Geeze.

A properly designed audio amplifier needs no "burn in" at all. This is simply audiophlake nonsense.

All you are doing is wasting energy and if doing it at very high power levels, stress heating all the components, not rationally recommended.

Get real and listen to the music.

Frank Van Alstine

That's what I expect to hear from any amp designer... nothing matters but the amp design itself....

Bill Baker · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:30 pm »

Quote

A properly designed audio amplifier needs no "burn in" at all. This is simply audiophlake nonsense.

In some situations I do agree but there are some components within an amp that will change sonically over time. Especially Teflon capacitors. Tubes also need to "settle" but this is more subtle. Other than some Teflon based units, there is not much I have come across that was not enjoyable out of the box. Even in these situations, I still feel normal listening or at least normal conditions are the best way for a product to break in. You wouldn't put your new car up on blocs and keep it running for weeks on end to break in the motor...... would you?

I always test run amps in a system (normal listening conditions) before sending it out to assure there are no gremlins that may have been overlooked on the bench. The other problem is with many of today's power tubes. I want to make sure they make it through at least the first 12 hours. The bench burn is done while running test. I will often keep a unit on the bench after testing much longer than normal only because I have only so many systems available throughout the shop.
This may all be a bit excessive but being a smaller company and not working in high volumes, it gives me the opportunity to actually listen to every amp before it goes out the door. Granted I don't have to but it has become a habit that I will continue as long as possible.

Quote

All you are doing is wasting energy and if doing it at very high power levels, stress heating all the components, not rationally recommended. Get real and listen to the music

.

If you are referring to a more aggressive burn-in, I do agree with your statement 100%. Every day I get asked "what is the best way to break in my new amp" with my reply being simply use it and enjoy the music coming through it. When it comes to tube amps, I see people out there that will run their units 24/7 in a separate room or garage for weeks to break them in. Just think about how much you are shortening the life span of the tubes and how much music you are missing. By time you are ready to listen, you have wasted several hundreds of hours.

Okay Frank, we all know how the audiophile community is. No matter what you and I think, say or recommend, consumers will go about the routine they are familiar with whether it has merit or not. Hey, it's a hobby.

95bcwh..... do you have speakers you can hook up to this amp?

95bcwh · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 18 Sep 2006, 02:30 pm

95bcwh..... do you have speakers you can hook up to this amp?

Bill,
Yes I have a pair of Salk Veracity HT3. I'm thinking of using the "burn-in" tone from XLO Burn-in & Test CD to burn-in my amp. The tone is un-listenable, also XLO recommeded playing the amp at "normal" listening volume, it's too loud to leave it on like that 24/7 because I live in an apartment compound. I normally listen to music less than 2hr every day, if the amp requires 100 hr to break in, that means 50-day! I will have been way pass the 30-day trial period!

Thanks for helping. I've ordered a pair of the resistor you suggested..should I cancel it??

barry

Bill Baker · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:43 pm »

HI Barry,
The resistors won't hurt anything but I honestly think you will get a good indication of how the amp sounds by simply listening to it (with music) for a couple weeks. You can leave it on while at home even if only a low levels if you want to get more time on it. Why make things more difficult than they have to be. You can do your evaluation of the amp towards the end.
Not only that but you will be able to tell for yourself if burn-in is justified as you will be able to experience for yourself.
Your call.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:47 pm »

Barry,
what amp is it you are speaking of anyway.

95bcwh · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 02:58 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio on 18 Sep 2006, 02:47 pm

Barry,
what amp is it you are speaking of anyway.

Bill,
I'm getting a 30-day trial of channel Island D200 through an authorized dealer, to compare against my Bryston. I will keep auditioning amp until I find one that's "CLEARLY" sounding better than Bryston to my ear. This is only the 2nd amp I'm trying, I will be surprised if it's going to be the last one.

barry

Bill Baker · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 03:10 pm »

Barry,
Why not just contact Dusty at CI to see what he has to say. You can even post you question on his forum or send him a PM. He's a nice enough person to talk to.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 06:57 pm »

Frank,

I think maybe Geritol might be necessary

Approximately a year ago I had your 240/3ex in my posession and put it thru it's paces....and among the lively discussion was this post by you:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23862.30

Quote from: avahifi

Well WOW Hyper Hyper

Thanks for your kind comments.

At the risk of being banned from the thread, I just have to mention that I do have several OmegaStar amplifiers available, some demos, some we built up in used clean Hafler and Dyna chassis in our spare time. All are at lower than catalog prices. Call me at 651-330-9871 for details.

By the way, I think you are right, the OmegaStar amps do get better and better with age, I am runnning one in my own video system and the TV sound keeps sounding nicer. I have no idea why this happens but I don't mind that it does.

Frank Van Alstine

Fact is, things do exist without showing up on your current testing methodology. Apparently, only you determine what is audiophlake-dom and what is not...when it suits your mood and occasion

Despite your best efforts to boil down audio to something you can 'see' on a scope or some other measuring method, you yourself even note that your amp matures and betters with age.

I got news for you...with comments like I see below from you below and comments from one year ago.....you end up being the 'phlake here.

You know that I have amazing respect for what you do, and how you do it...but your insistence that you alone are the arbiter of excellent sound and perfection in audio engineering is a crock I just can't stand to hear or see without responding. No one is alone in this respect...not even Frank van Alstine, talented engineer and devoted music enthusiast for many decades.

You are indeed talented, a treasure to our little hobby....but your more-than-occasional self-righteousness is pure nonsense.

John / TCG

Quote from: avahifi on 18 Sep 2006, 01:37 pm

I really wonder if you guys "burn in" your toaster, coffee pot, dishwasher, garbage disposal, TV set, and computer before using them. Geeze.

A properly designed audio amplifier needs no "burn in" at all. This is simply audiophlake nonsense.

All you are doing is wasting energy and if doing it at very high power levels, stress heating all the components, not rationally recommended.

Get real and listen to the music.

Frank Van Alstine

zybar · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 07:03 pm »

Quote from: 95bcwh on 18 Sep 2006, 02:58 pm

Quote from: Response Audio on 18 Sep 2006, 02:47 pm
Barry,
what amp is it you are speaking of anyway.

Bill,
I'm getting a 30-day trial of channel Island D200 through an authorized dealer, to compare against my Bryston. I will keep auditioning amp until I find one that's "CLEARLY" sounding better than Bryston to my ear. This is only the 2nd amp I'm trying, I will be surprised if it's going to be the last one.

barry

How are you doing this when I thought that Dusty only sells direct?

BTW, it will be better than your Byston amp...

George

95bcwh · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Sep 2006, 07:06 pm »

Musicdirect.com...

Unless I was conned!!

Quote from: zybar on 18 Sep 2006, 07:03 pm

How are you doing this when I thought that Dusty only sells direct?

BTW, it will be better than your Byston amp...

George